prison and profits

There are many that believe California's Prison Rehabilitation System and other systems around the world have more sinister purpose outside of incarceration. Discuss prison topics here in California, throughout the United States and Internationally.
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prison and profits

Unread post by alexalonso » June 7th, 2003, 7:43 pm

The state of California has about 33 prisons of which many beleive are part of a system of profit, racism, and greed. I have heard many speak on this in a very convincing way but I have yet to see any one make the connections between the state of California, big business, corporation and the State's desire to create this massive complex for business and profit and to racially oppress.

What makes this notion more problematic for me, especially in California, the financical deficit that the state finds itself in after Gov. Gray Davis lied about the state's budget. Because of the finacial short fall, many inmates are receiving early releases this year (2003).

My question is if the massisve prison industrial complex exists for the sole purpose of INDUSTRY as people like Angela Davis say, then what happened in California? Where are the industries, where is all the MONEY? Since California has the largest prison system it should be making the most money from a large INDUSTRY. And finally why release inmates early if the State can afford to house all these inmates?

A Alonso

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Unread post by BIG DUSTY LOCO » June 10th, 2003, 9:33 am

I think it's as simple as a cop out. You hear that on the street wherever you go, " the state is makin' money off us". Man, the state of California is broke. L.A. County ranks #2 (only 31% recovery) in the states worst cities of Child Support Recovery. We got budget problems that trickle down to the city level. If there was really a prison industry, they'd make more prisons to accommodate the bodies that inhabit prisons. But with public outcry, it gets haulted and blasted before they can draw up the architectural designs. There is no money to be made for the state with prisons. WE are pouring money into it to provide care (or what little of) for all inmates. They are not pouring back the money in restitution or labor. They don't have them do anything but sit around and run the prison. Hell, if they farmed crops and sold them for profit which the state took to pay back into the state budget, that's profitting. But when you have them do nothing in there but eat, sleep, and crap...that's a money pit. It's a cop out, simple as that. You don't see an increase in the number of public defender, number of judges, number of police. L.A. city council shot down Hahn's plan to get more money to add more cops. What prison industry? What "conspiracy"?

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Unread post by wcrockets » June 23rd, 2003, 3:56 pm

I can see both sides of it but I have to give the nod to Big Dusty Loco. His view makes more sense to me.

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peep this

Unread post by bree » June 24th, 2003, 4:47 pm

i recently went to a talk on the prison industrial complex where they related that prison was not like slavery, but more like the slave ships. the means by which they round up future slaves, take them from they homes, they families an begin to transport them. the slave ships were gruesome places an many never made they destinations, died on route. it was also where one was retrained fo they future life as slave. this i think is the most important factor.
1 in 3 young black mean are in some state of incarceration.
i am not a black man, but i too have suffered at the hands of the system as i have watched my brothers an friends be ripped away from they lives an futures. in cali, at least for practical purposes (thanks gov davis) parole doesn't exsist and if an when you do see the door you will find that there are several career restrictions now closed. convicted felons are barred from many jobs such as barber, medical positions, etc, etc.
you can not vote....now if 1 in 3 young black males are in the system think about the ramifications of that. in my eyes, tho undeniable that they can force you to work in prison (full time at .14 an hour is about average from what my incarcerated friends tell me, but they cap you at about $15. a month an will wake you up on yo day off an make you work, etc) they are also creating a future labor pool of unskilled laborers, expendable workers. this all greatly helps to maintain the collective investment in whiteness, white supremency, etc. bugdet cuts have left prisoners working, but cut them off from education, voc training an any other form of rehabilitattion.
another important factor is the privatization of prisons. this is something that will not always show up in they dollar an cents anaylasis thet they do. this shit all goes real deep an im in a rush, but ima get back at it later...

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Re: peep this

Unread post by alexalonso » June 24th, 2003, 8:39 pm

bree wrote:i recently went to a talk on the prison industrial complex where they related that prison was not like slavery, but more like the slave ships. the means by which they round up future slaves, take them from they homes, they families an begin to transport them. the slave ships were gruesome places an many never made they destinations, died on route. it was also where one was retrained fo they future life as slave. this i think is the most important factor.
1 in 3 young black mean are in some state of incarceration.
i am not a black man, but i too have suffered at the hands of the system as i have watched my brothers an friends be ripped away from they lives an futures. in cali, at least for practical purposes (thanks gov davis) parole doesn't exsist and if an when you do see the door you will find that there are several career restrictions now closed. convicted felons are barred from many jobs such as barber, medical positions, etc, etc.
you can not vote....now if 1 in 3 young black males are in the system think about the ramifications of that. in my eyes, tho undeniable that they can force you to work in prison (full time at .14 an hour is about average from what my incarcerated friends tell me, but they cap you at about $15. a month an will wake you up on yo day off an make you work, etc) they are also creating a future labor pool of unskilled laborers, expendable workers. this all greatly helps to maintain the collective investment in whiteness, white supremency, etc. bugdet cuts have left prisoners working, but cut them off from education, voc training an any other form of rehabilitattion.
another important factor is the privatization of prisons. this is something that will not always show up in they dollar an cents anaylasis thet they do. this @$%* all goes real deep an im in a rush, but ima get back at it later...
What strikes me about inmates is that 85% of them did not have their fathers in their lives and the number higher for black inmates, and it is these fathers that can play a critical role in the lives of young boys who get caught up during their juvenile years.

The fathers of black boys have left the ship, they are AWOL, and it is them that should be responsible for an entire generation of lost youth. The black father was there at the turn of the 20th Century and during the 1920s and 1940s, but in the last 30 years they have disappeared. Where have they gone?????????????????

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Unread post by wcrockets » June 25th, 2003, 9:34 am

Wow! That is powerful.

Question: Does this help explain the ferocity and serious criminal behavior acceleration in the "scene" and many of the individuals growing up in gangs without fathers in the ghetto after the 60's? Could the "free love" movement, drugs, and "do your own thing" philosophies of the 60's led to a break in these young men's personal responsibility awareness? Combined with the violation of many of these men's "Equity Principles" (a principle found in Organization Communication which states that if one side believes they are in an unequitable relationship they will always try to change it) and their own special way of dealing with inequities (ie rough neighborhoods often make for rough residents), did their behavior go much farther than it would have if fathers had been there to contain that even in these rough neighborhoods?

I know that's three questions.. lol. But they are all important I think.

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Unread post by BIG DUSTY LOCO » June 25th, 2003, 12:07 pm

That's pretty deep. Deep rooted causes of this whole thing, but Alonso came through with a serious exclamation point! Being in a gang, there are a bunch of "father-type" figures there to substitute for your real dad. And it's been going on for years. The Black Father had several different forces against him though. I'm not making no excuses, but all the governmental and other institutional practices/attrocities commited against the black man in the 1900's really did a number. All the segregation, all the poor opportunities and closed door practices of government and community to shut out the black man really affected his power to make a decent living in this country. I said before, the rest of us minorities owe to the upstanding G's, the upstanding black men of this country, we owe them our civil liberties and rights that we enjoy. I think historically the black man had to deal with the snitches and rats of his own kind, which made it harder for many of the true black men to rise. The house negro and field negro dilemma, I'm not sure who to point the finger to, but I will say I'd lay my money down on the field negro who held his ground and demanded his equal pay for his work done as the true black man rising! The house negro just made sure his own personal riches/wealth were to remain intact, therefore snitched on all the strong brothers in the field who were ready to revolt. Switch that to the mid-1900's and you have all the house negro's that lived in the big houses doing what they do to keep their own personal wealth intact, while shitting on his own on the streets who are working their asses off to get somewhere. The house negro never gave anything back to his community, he actually helped the white man to contain them.

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Unread post by Guest » June 25th, 2003, 1:57 pm

I see what you are saying and that makes me wonder how the black man who didn't have his all invested in the white led system would have reacted if not being influenced (ie snitched, etc.. ) by some of his fellows that had chosen the white led system.

So, are you saying their would have been mass revolts if all black man had been relegated to the field role? And if that happened what do you think the result would have been?

If the people in the field went to the house and took on that role and the people in the house moved to the field, do you believe the result would have been different?

Let's speculate for a moment. If Africa had developed quickly instead of Europe and come to America (instead of Europe) and began slave trading in European white people, wouldn't the same situation exist just the races swapped. And what of Muslims historical bigtime role in slavery? Isn't this really a humanity problem?

Furthermore, I can see how your argument relates to my previous questions as black men were affected. I hope Mr. Alonso weighs in again on this subject.

Sideline: Note that there are many Hispanic gangs too and my three original questions are for that culture as well.

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Unread post by BIG DUSTY LOCO » June 25th, 2003, 4:30 pm

I spoke in terms of the United States, more importantly the West Coast. Yes, Slavery is a humanity problem, but let's be real, amongst the vast different Euro/Afro/Asian cultures of ancient times, slavery was a common trait amongst all those ancient cultures. People sold other people as commodity. Even during ancient-times, there was always class distinctions, caste-systems, what have you. How that translates down thousands of years, I'm sure there has been tons of people that have analyzed stuff like that. It's what it is now.

And in terms of today, I do think that a mass black revolt would have been evident if it was not neutralized by the Hoover Commission/COINTELPRO/FBI/CIA. Would it have been beneficial? Depends on which fence you sit on and depends on what would have eventually been solved/unsolved from a revolt. I'm not sure what the result of a black revolt would have been in the 50's/60's. As a matter of fact, despite what took place, we are living as a result of the past.

I think your first statement is a little misinformed. Color-aside, I don't think the system was meant to profit or help "non-commissioned people" to further their wealth/community in general. Many asian/latino immigrants were brought to and used in the West Coast by the White Farmers as cheap/free labor. When the blacks wanted too much money, they used the Chicanos. When the Chicanos wanted more money, they used the Asians. When the Asians wanted more money, they played the Chicanos against the Asians.

Many stops and monkey wrenches were thrown, therefore you got the riots/rebellions. When the downtrodden have taken the last straw, the first and foremost ultimate statement they can make would be the quickly expressed...violence is one of the most dramatic, forceful, to the point, way of expressing one's feelings. Whether it's right or wrong I'm not speakin' on, but it is how the poor and unequipped tend to speak out. The early American Colonists "spoke" out against their British rulers in the forms of militia and minutemen. So it was okay for them to "speak" against taxation without representation, but it's not okay for the poor and down trodden to speak up in City Council meetings? Everyone here knows your political weight depends on how much you weigh/matter financially to those that make decisions. Much like a set's shotcallers, your ghetto-superstar status weighs more than just a regular peewee. Except the ghetto-superstar has earned stripes on the battlefield, the politician has earned wealth through donations of various interests. Hence, the poor ain't got no shot at nothing but 1 vote. Don't get me wrong, the US is a great place to live in compared to other countries, it's just got a lot of work to do in it's hypocrisy and civil liberties. And in dealing with those problems, it always seems like 1 class of people is protecting their incredible wealth from the "crabs in a bucket" that are trying to buy that extra meal ticket.

On your speculation if the colors were switched, I don't think slavery would have continued into the States as long as it did. Just the whole idea doesn't sound right. Africa as a whole did not go into European countries as invaders. That was mostly a Spaniard Conquistador thing and the Muslim thing...basically religious zealots with a hard-on to spread and enforce their cultures and diseases amongst innocent tribal people of the earth. I'm not too keen on ancient history, so correct me if I'm wrong.

But back to the topic though, I look at the prison situation as a cycle. There are good cycles and bad cycles, but the similarities in both is that if you break a cycle...it is no more. You take the fathers away from a family cycle, you have just broken that unit. You keep the fathers into the family cycle, you keep that cycle flowing infinitely. You throw in colors/ethnicity into 2003, we have a whole 2 or maybe 3 generations of children being brought up without fatherly guidance(whether good or bad). It's the same guidance that has been passed down from generation to generation, it's what makes a tribe or set what it is. If the then "new" guidance is negative, i.e. original gangsters passing off their knowledge that helps perpetuate hood-politics, then you have a continuous bad cycle that permeates the community. Whether it's bad or good, it's still a cycle that keeps flowing infinitely until it is broken up. Unfortunately, it's never broken up due to the fact that it's a self-reliant negative cycle, bad things just keep rollin' like that whether there is help or not. How to break it and keep it positive? That's the million dollar question, anybody with a million dollar answer?

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Unread post by wcrockets » June 27th, 2003, 8:40 am

BDL: That was a well thought out very good reply. I wish I had the million dollar answer as well.

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Re: prison and profits

Unread post by thesoulsedge » July 24th, 2003, 10:17 am

I got to disagree with Angela Davis. The purpose the prison system is to "separate" certain so-called "dangerous" elements of society. Just as certain elites "separate" their children by sending them to private schools and Ivy League universities, the prison system "separates" the so-called dangerous elements.

Wealthy kids with problems get therapy, poor kids with problems are sent to "prison camp" and then "prison". And a "criminal record" allows society to keep track of the so-called "dangerous" elements.

Society cannot function without stratification, hierarchy, levels and distribution of power. This is more valuable to society than money. Why? Because it provides stability and comfort for those in power.

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Re: prison and profits

Unread post by BIG DUSTY LOCO » July 24th, 2003, 10:55 am

Soulsedge,
I can't really believe all that "illuminati" crap that it becomes a reason or crutch in why I can't be a millioinaire too...LOL. The capitalistic system we live under has it's checks and balances, as well as it's imbalances. Can you really separate yourself by stature in wealth? To me, we are all the same damn thing. You think a rich white boy is impervious to a stray bullet on the street? It's all about odd's and percentages homie. I think naturally, a person who has goals tends to reach out more and work harder for things they want. A person who just wants to be alive is reduced to nothing more than an animal looking for food, shelter, clothing. Now why can't both these 2 types of people be "wealthy"? It's because one hustles while the other one lives. In a capitalist society, the early bird gets the worm. You can try to implement separatist virtue or laws, but you really can't keep a progressive spirit down.

Now why is it a problem when the wealthy kids have more resources than a poor kid? You can't just be wealthy, somebody had to work for that wealth and stature right? It's like that homie from the hood who grew up, got educated, got a job, got nice things, trying to move on up out the hood, and the homies who stay in the hood get jealous and mad at him for leaving the hood. Why is that? Why hate somebody just because they got a head on their shoulders and you don't? It's like some homies are locked in a negative mindset that immediately lashes out on others who are comin' up. The quintessential "player-hater". Since nobody in the hood wants to make it a nice place for EVERYONE, the only recourse you have is to leave the hood and look for better options. Can't drink 40's all day and smoke, that gets boring.

Who goes to prisons? Killers, thieves, rapists, basically people who are not doing whats normal in their society. Although, there are innocent people sitting in prison on trumped up charges, but thats another topic. Prisons are meant to house people who have been convicted of crimes (i didn't say guilty people, you can be convicted but innocent ya dig). Why are these cats even doing these things? Mental problems? Drug problems? They come from bad genes? Who knows, but theres some scientific research out there that is trying to find the correlations between crime and background. What causes cats to commit crimes? That's another million dollar question right there too. Nobody forces you to go out there and smoke an enemy. Is it all peer pressure? Revenge?

I might have gone out of topic on this, but class distinctions and separatism comes from the home first. People in power do what they must to keep it, but despite that, it can all come tumbling down in a quick minute..or in Kobe's case...15min...LOL.

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Re: prison and profits

Unread post by gtrip » November 30th, 2003, 3:07 pm

The thing that i think sucks is that A person commits a crime, say it is a drug related offense a scrap baggie or something (which in texas) is a third degree felony say he serves his time decides to change his life and gets in drug treatment etc goes to school graduates and honestly changes his lifestyle and does not get into any more trouble with the law and it has been over 10 yrs anyway this person still shows a felony on his record because of what happened 10 yrs ago, The first thing that he faces on any employment application is have you ever been arrested ? which he answers honestly as soon as they see that he is skipped over no matter what he might get some job but he cant work for a hospital,school dist , a college etc i think this is what sucks in this country if a person does his time and truly rehabilitates he is still stuck what happened to the theory of rehabilitation and giving folks a second chance ? I thought that was one of the goals of the modern penal system? this is why the prisons are so full anyway these people get out and cant do anything else but live the lifestyle that they are used to kinda like a dog chasing his tail. until this is addressed and workable solutions are used to solve this problem prisons are gonna be kept full.

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Re: prison and profits

Unread post by wcrockets » November 30th, 2003, 3:30 pm

That is an interesting point. I think a law could be developed to deal with that. Maybe after 10 years it goes from active to inactive status and is nondisclosed for purpose of employment but still available to law enforcement. I don't know what would be good for the specifics but some change could be made to accomodate that I would think.

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Re: prison and profits

Unread post by civil_thor » March 12th, 2004, 2:36 am

There have been some interesting, thoughtful replies in this thread. On topic, I think that prisons are far from being money makers. People are being sent to prison in record numbers in nearly every state, causing government to steal from Peter to pay Paul, so to speak. I'd venture to say that not many states are coming out in the black regarding prison funding.

More importantly, several people have made mention of fathers and family in relation to prison population. That goes right down to the core of why gangs are a viable alternative to so many people. Although there are certainly exceptions, the vast majority of gangsters do not come from well-adjusted homes. In many cases, the parents (if present) are poor influences or are absent from their kids' lives while struggling to make ends meet. In other cases, parents are immigrants who don't fully understand the dynamics of the world their kids are subjected to and don't recognize what's going on until it's too late. In most cases, the kid finds the intangiable qualities of life in a gang rather than through the family. It becomes a distorted sense of identity, worth, and belonging. If the family served that purpose through positive example, chances are the end result would be different. Look around and you'll see what I mean.

Therein lies the answer to keeping people out of gangs and/or prison. Unfortunately, that answer has to be realized house by house. Those who fail, regardless of race, will be left to take a number and watch their children stand in line to be tomorrow's inmates.

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Re: prison and profits

Unread post by 1OldSchool » March 15th, 2004, 10:23 am

So nobody's making money huh!? how about myrill lynch,Smith and barney etc investing in the private prison biz or what about bill gates,aol having inmates assembling those annoying cds, how about those fireman we dont hear about fighting those fires! where do they come from? and countless others using prison inmates for labor profit I agree the common folk aint seeing s}{it! its the prisons union,the investors the corporations and a favor granting politicians not to mention the lawyers that are prosicuting/defending people because of the bs laws that are created again by politicians and are enforced by naieve ignorant fake super heroes aka the "super gang" and on and on and on...............

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Re: prison and profits

Unread post by Guest » March 16th, 2004, 1:36 pm

FU$K THE LAW FU$K THE SYSTEM ITS JUST A NEW FORM OF SLAVERY !! BELIEVE THAT ! THE RICH GET RICHER & THE POUR GET 3 HOTS & A COT , EARLY DEATHS & TEARS !

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Re: prison and profits

Unread post by Panik » March 16th, 2004, 1:38 pm

well, anyone who doesn't know the difference between poor and pour will definately get poorer. It's hard to get a good job these days without a diploma.

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Re: prison and profits

Unread post by wcrockets » March 16th, 2004, 2:22 pm

It's true that life's not fair from a human perspective. But eternal reality shows an upside down Kingdom where many of the last will be first and many of the first will be last. I keep saying it because it's still true. I know a gang of homies whose hearts have been changed that are doing good. Man I know guys that were once hard core heroin addict gang members that lead glorious lives today and have their own homes, families, and businesses. I also know homies that struggle each day and sometimes stumble but maintain their position in God's kingdom. Lot of character in those guys. Now check this out. I also know rich people that have tragic lives and are miserable people. Don't let JUST your eye's and bad experiences guide you. Don't be a slave to the ones you say are enslaving you by being stupid and ending up there prisoner because of some unrightous action. Listen, one thing education is good for beyond giving you a leg into the straight world is giving you a perspective beyond just what you think you see.

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Re: prison and profits

Unread post by Guest » March 23rd, 2004, 1:53 pm

Yo , panik what's with the that BS 2 cent comment , if I wanted 2 hear fron an a--hole I would have farted !

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Re: prison and profits

Unread post by wcrockets » April 23rd, 2004, 8:58 am

Bye feeger-beegerzz. We don't need this in our forum. ^^

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Re: prison and profits

Unread post by Noog » May 11th, 2004, 4:53 am

Powerful threads......

Here's a thang - The Prison Industrial Complex is expanding, yes folks thats right, its growing bigger and richer all the time...hey look! In Iraq right now, with soldiers picking up 'insurgents' from the streets of Iraqi towns and cities, a majority innocent and slapped into Saddam's old jail...beaten, hooded, attacked with dogs, forced to lie nacked in heaps.... Any how, I hold that those are the true colors of the Prison Industrial Complex - The motivation is money and power - in Iraq the tragic truth is being played out in the new coalition jails. Oil and Jails, now thats enough to make ol' Rumsfeld sweat himself into ecstacy!

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Re: prison and profits

Unread post by wcrockets » May 11th, 2004, 11:27 am

Haha Noog. Nobody says it like exactly like you. Peace.

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Re: prison and profits

Unread post by 1OldSchool » May 13th, 2004, 8:48 am


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Re: prison and profits

Unread post by wcrockets » May 13th, 2004, 2:20 pm

^^ Good Link! It is to a site called Media Coverage of Private Prisons. An Annotated Bibliography.

This document provides a summary of events and problems in private prisons around the country. These items are arranged chronologically by state. Don't see anything for 2003 in there but seems to give a good historical perspective for the period of time it covers.

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Re: prison and profits

Unread post by stickupkidakaBIGBANDIT » June 8th, 2004, 4:53 pm

I mean they just don't make money off the individual inmates who goes to prison but also those big contractors like food, clothing, and all the other things needed to run a prison. Did you know BOb barker has a contract w/ the state to make bathroom supplies then divide that by the 30 some odd facilities that's a lot of cheese. WHen I had a tooth brush in YA it was a BOB BARKER, but then for him do get that contract it has to be approved by the prison trustee or board, which choose the bidders which BOB probably paid off. It's complicated and can never be throghly explained and the police and CO's aren't aware of what's going on there just simply pond pieces.

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Re: prison and profits

Unread post by Marinon » July 13th, 2004, 5:06 pm

Regarding the original post. If your city councel is proposing tax increases. While this prison is in production then yes. The prison is a scam.

It's not about filling up the prison, thats not a problem. It's convincing the public using it as an example to the taxpayers "that matter" That they can rest easier now that the "Big Bad Man" has been put away for life. Then selling the idea to EVERYONE else that we need it and it's worth paying for.When in actuallity crime is down.

3 sure ways to make money for the elite and do it all under the banner of progress is prisons, highways and schools. And you'll find the same situations are happening with other countries who agree and follow w/ U.S. Policies,


Today in america it's abused to the extent to where my city has nonstop construction on highways and it's all done "for our own benefit". This year our city councel is asking the road comission for 6 billion$ as well as toll booths for roads that passed with 20% of the cities approval. Even though we already pay a state tax for roads.

It's always an issue regarding Crime, Education or Roads.

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Re: prison and profits

Unread post by TheWiseOne » July 18th, 2004, 3:08 pm

The State Of California is broke. Have You Been There Its Out Ragous! :!:

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The Justice System Has Put In Some Work

Unread post by Common Sense » July 26th, 2004, 4:38 pm

U.S. prison, parole population sets record


One in 32 Americans (mostly black and Latino) in jail or on parole in 2003 - A record 6.9 million adults were incarcerated or on probation or parole last year, nearly 131,000 more than in 2002, according to a Justice Department study.



Put another way, about 3.2 percent of the adult U.S. population, or 1 in 32 adults, were incarcerated or on probation or parole at the end of last year.

A record 4.8 million adults were on probation or parole in 2003, about 73,000 more than the year before. About 70 percent of adults involved in federal, state or local corrections systems fall into this category. The states of California and Texas together accounted for about 1 million.

The number of adults on parole after serving a prison sentence rose by 3.1 percent from 2002 to 2003, to more than 774,500 people. That compares with an average annual rise of about 1.7 percent since 1995 for those on parole, a figure that has been increasing at a much slower rate than those in jails (4 percent a year), in prison (3.4 percent) and on probation (2.9 percent).

Since 1995, states around the country have increased the use of mandatory parole after prison release and cut down on use of discretionary releases overseen by parole boards, the report says.

The report, released Sunday, focused most on the characteristics of those on probation or parole. Its findings include:

Almost half of all probationers were convicted of a felony, with 25 percent convicted of a drug violation.
Washington state had the highest number of people on probation per 100,000 population, at 3,767. New Hampshire had the lowest rate at 426.
Of the 2.2 million people discharged from probation in 2003, three out of five met the conditions of their supervision. Another 16 percent were jailed because of a rule violation or a new crime, with 4 percent becoming fugitives.

About 95 percent of those on parole had been convicted of a felony.
Of the 470,500 parolees discharged from supervision last year, 38 percent went back to jail for a new crime or a rule violation, with 9 percent becoming fugitives.

SDlawdogg77
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Re: prison and profits

Unread post by SDlawdogg77 » July 27th, 2004, 6:39 pm

alonso wrote:The state of California has about 33 prisons of which many beleive are part of a system of profit, racism, and greed. I have heard many speak on this in a very convincing way but I have yet to see any one make the connections between the state of California, big business, corporation and the State's desire to create this massive complex for business and profit and to racially oppress.

What makes this notion more problematic for me, especially in California, the financical deficit that the state finds itself in after Gov. Gray Davis lied about the state's budget. Because of the finacial short fall, many inmates are receiving early releases this year (2003).

My question is if the massisve prison industrial complex exists for the sole purpose of INDUSTRY as people like Angela Davis say, then what happened in California? Where are the industries, where is all the MONEY? Since California has the largest prison system it should be making the most money from a large INDUSTRY. And finally why release inmates early if the State can afford to house all these inmates?

A Alonso
Hey whatsup I am new to the forum and have read a lot of your gang analysis and intelligence, there is some real insightful stuff on here. It really hits me because when I was a freshmen at USC I used to box at Hoover Street Gym on 78th and Hoover and used to trip at the graffiti and delineation of neighborhoods in such compact areas. As for your questions here is what I think. A complex does not exist for the state it exists for itself, it is not just private industry, it is beareaucrats, and unions that need the continuation of the prison system and new inmates to keep itself going. And when I mean to keep “itself” going I don’t believe it is a conspiracy, it is the prison guard that has a family and a car payment, it is the furniture manufacturer that depends on the the cheap labor from prisons to maintain profitability, it is the pharmaceutical company that sells cheap generics to the infirmaries. It is all of these “interests” that act in a symbiotic and synergistic way that keep the complex afloat. These interests become “entrenched” and must maintain the status quo to “survive”, they are a sector of the economy that does not depend on the market which is a free moving thing, they depend on the legislature and the governor among other things. This is a maleable and controllable means of maintaining and securing a sector of the economy and a way of life, it is maintained because there are many who have a stake in its existence. It is very similar to the military-industrial complex that needs conflict to justify its existence. Without an enemy what do we need million dollar smart bombs for, and if we don’t need the smart bombs then we don’t need the upper middle class engineers or the middle class factory worker. It is the same for the prisons, without the prisoners and the prisons, the local restaurant in the Imperial Valley doesn’t have patrons so on and so forth

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Re: prison and profits

Unread post by Marinon » July 29th, 2004, 3:15 am

Yeah well, thanx man there goes my hopes for world peace =),.so your saying the state needs the poor. In fact, their creating a device which to use the poor to create a "cheap as dirt" labor force to produce anything from office furnirue to whats next, gee,...Automobiles and anything else for companies that have'nt decided to go over sees to a third world country and create sweat shops. Where they lock these countries perpetualy in debt which amounts to nothing more then neo-sharecropping. In creating this complex their creating jobs for everybody who has a hand in designing it/maintaining it? To me california does not seem like a very kewl place to live indeed ,..sorry seems very Orwellian to me....ever seen the movie "Metropolis"


~The rantings of a paranoid
can anyone give me some links about the progress of this monster mechine or about anyone protesting it


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