Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

These concepts are socially constructed and have been given much weight. What are your thoughts?
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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by mayugastank » April 18th, 2011, 11:48 am

THINGS DONE IN ON THE WESTCOAST NOT DONE ANYWHERE ELSE:

Stacking-Lowriding-Graffiti ( the style practiced here!*cholo style)-Types of clothing : White Teed'Converse wearing'Dickies sporting'flannel banging'bandana as gang attire'........................Colored up gangs-Gangster Rap-Ben Davisd out brothers-Beanie low brow wearing-mixed cholo and graph art-Area Code repping-vehicle Modification- and the single most important ,most important identifier of the West Coast..........TATTOOS.

Most of what is FASHION today......comes directly from Japanese tattoo patterns popularized by Ed Hardy an East Los Angelos native and several Chicano tattoo artists JAck Rudy -Freddy Negrete-Placaso Tattoo-Jose Lopez-Kat Von D-and a thousand old school vets slanging ink from way back in the day while they were enjoying a few months of freedom from their parole restrictions. Old School cholos would get out slang some of the most amazing ink youd ever imagine---do patterns youd never seen----creating a ripple effect- of every other chicano saying DAM I want that....and leave the varrios with a whole new placement/style of font/new design and pattern and go right back into the pen. This is what you see on most TSHIRTS today worldwide and the artwork of chicanos is considered the worlds art. Blacks and Puerto Ricans brought graffiti but really it was chicanos from Los Angelos who turned the deal on its head.
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One of Los Angelos chicano artists.jpg
one of a thousand amazing artists.....
One of Los Angelos chicano artists.jpg (55.84 KiB) Viewed 6925 times
38893_104725412916309_100001365533654_35299_4553769_n.jpg
Los Angelos' underground Indentifier......
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38493_104725589582958_100001365533654_35310_585852_n.jpg
The Style of fine lines and shading/touched on skin NEVER DONE BY ANY RACE ANYWHERE EVER BEFORE.
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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by Silencioso » April 19th, 2011, 12:42 am

THINGS DONE IN ON THE WESTCOAST NOT DONE ANYWHERE ELSE:

Stacking-Lowriding-Graffiti ( the style practiced here!*cholo style)-Types of clothing : White Teed'
WHITE T-SHIRTS ARE A CLASSIC GANG STYLE THAT GOES BACK TO THE 40'S AT LEAST. I'VE SEEN OLD PHOTOS OF NY GANGS, CHICAGO GANGS, BIKERS, WEARING WHITE TEES. THEY WERE A GENERAL POST WORLD WAR II FASHION THAT CHOLOS PICKED UP ON JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE.
Converse wearing'Dickies sporting
CONVERSE IS WEST COAST? IS THAT A JOKE? NY GANGS HAVE BEEN WEARIN CONVERSE SINCE THE 50'S. THEY WENT OUT IN THE HIP HOP ERA. KHAKIS ARE ANOTHER BASIC POST WWII STYLE THAT A LOT OF GANGS AND YOUTH SUBCULTURES WORE IN THE LATE 40'S-60'S. CHICAGO GANGS WORE THEM, PHILLY, NY.
'flannel banging'bandana as gang attire'
I DON'T KNOW WHO DID BANDANAS AS A GANG STYLE FIRST, BUT BIKERS AND NY GANGS IN THE LATE 60'S/70'S WERE BIG ON BANDANAS.i DOUBT THEY GOT THE IDEA FROM CHOLOS
........................Colored up gangs
THE IDEA OF REPPING A GANG THROUGH COLOR IS PRETTY BASIC. CHICAGO GANGS HAVE BEEN DOING IT FOR YEARS. AT LEAST SINCE THE 50'S
-Gangster Rap-Ben Davisd out brothers-Beanie low brow wearing-mixed cholo and graph art-Area Code repping-vehicle Modification- and the single most important ,most important identifier of the West Coast..........TATTOOS.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by mayugastank » April 19th, 2011, 1:29 am

Are you kidding me? You point to all these identifiers and throw out the 1940s as a year that is I dont know what? your idea when chicano gangs started? 1940 is new school in East Los Angelos. Hardly any gangs from ELA started later then the 1940s!..................Most ELA gangs started around the early 1900s and some to the 1920s. Chicano gangs might have gained more popularity in the 1940s..........but believe this they were around 3 decades or more in most cases of most gangs in East Los. We dont know who did what when and at what time ...........WHAT WE DO KNOW.......is that the oldest longest living gangs WORLDWIDE........much less NATIONWIDE.......are from here and assuming we've done it the longest its more then likely we originated most of it along with the Italians and Irish in NYC. We dont even really know the history of most of these varrios---what we do know is most of what is gang culture TODAY is originated off the classic cholo look. Its everywhere....from skaters style to rocker styles to all over the place in hip hop--especially in the ink and WESTCOAST gangster rap. 1940s........psst ..........NEW BOOTY AROUND HERE! you aint considered a varrio unless your varrio started before the 1940s.............otherwise your a FAD.Here today gone tomorrow.

Jardin-Gaherty-Rockwood Lomas-White Fence-Canta Ranas-ES 38th-Hazard- on this side of town!

In SGV Bassett-Puente-Monte Hicks-Flores-Sangra-

Outside of Los -

SD has got some varrios that go to the early 1900s..........

In EL PASO their are varrios that say they started in the mid 1850s!

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by mayugastank » April 19th, 2011, 1:34 am

I DON'T KNOW WHO DID BANDANAS AS A GANG STYLE FIRST, BUT BIKERS AND NY GANGS IN THE LATE 60'S/70'S WERE BIG ON BANDANAS.i DOUBT THEY GOT THE IDEA FROM CHOLOS



I doubt they didnt! First outlaw motorcycle gang ...........Califas. The first tattoos the bikers got were usually done by cholos.........hence the exact same style of inkwork they have as their chicano counterparts from Califas. To prove it look to the style that White Bikers get here and relate it to anything similar outside of Califas. Non existant. The Ideas we create are ideas that have been spun off by every race....which is why it usually looks biten when they do it because its been watered down --over and over. The uncreased sagging dickies/the oversized shirt/the same black and grey inkwork but with some goofy ass line style and shading that TRIED to mimick the original...........

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by xxx » April 19th, 2011, 10:36 am

i caught a glimpse of the movie Grease the other night.

Made me think about this discussion.

The Whiteboy Hodrod, Drag Racing Look back then.

Chicanos in the L.A have been biting off the Apple of other races over the decades like every other race.

The Chicano Cholo Cuture is Not Pure.

Jazz Zoot Suits, R&B, Hod Rod Greasers, Stoners, Hip Hop, etc, you name it, u can see those elements all threw the Cholo Style over the years.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by ViciousRidah » April 20th, 2011, 12:47 pm

The Chicano culture does absorb and soak certain traditions from other backgrounds but I think it composes of originality overall.They have traces of stoner and rockabilly culture in their traditions and they are influenced by the black hood culture as well, but respect needs to be given were its due.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by mayugastank » April 20th, 2011, 1:31 pm

xxx wrote:i caught a glimpse of the movie Grease the other night.

Made me think about this discussion.

The Whiteboy Hodrod, Drag Racing Look back then.

Chicanos in the L.A have been biting off the Apple of other races over the decades like every other race.

The Chicano Cholo Cuture is Not Pure.

Jazz Zoot Suits, R&B, Hod Rod Greasers, Stoners, Hip Hop, etc, you name it, u can see those elements all threw the Cholo Style over the years.

Sure but the entire package formed an original idea.Its like saying that motown and RNB arent black since its sung in English and well African Americans only music is the congo drum banging-spearchucking war dance of the congo. What I dont see too much influence in is the artwork. The artwork on Tshirts/tattoos/vehicles/ and most shirts today...seem outstandingly fresh/new and original. The shading and design actually wouldve never originated had it not been for the system and racism. Chicanos would tattoo themselves by grinding guitar string on their cell walls until the point was so fine that it resembled the sharpest pencil tip. This needle number is known as a NUMBER 1 needle point in modern tattooing today and without it tattooing would resemble what it always has......thick/unproportionate/sloppy and amateur. Even the Japanese took the style and came up with what we now know as modern japanese inkwork. I really honestly cant say that other races or anyone had too much influence on this "most unique artform". To say this artwork isnt the countrys' youths artwork would be outrageous. Check every album cover and your bound to see something with ties to our inkwork.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by xxx » April 21st, 2011, 7:45 pm

i cant give any race credit for tattoos.

The Islanders been doing it.

US Sailers from way back during WWI & WWII had tattoos.

The Whiteboy Motor Cycle Gangs had/have Tattoos.

ExLos Chicanos had/have Tattoos.

And u see these Samuri Japenese..........

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by mayugastank » April 21st, 2011, 9:11 pm

I cant give credit to anyone for rap.

People been making music since teh begining of man.........

Its not MUSIC its a style of MUSIC.

Just like the style of tattooing every race-tribe has had a tattoo culture NONE has made it as mainstream and as original as the chicano convicts. The style is known as fine line black and grey and this style has affected all styles of tattooing. If you look at the way chicanos tattoo it is different then anything ever done anywhere in the world. The flames/smoke/patterns/fonts/stylization......never practiced before ever anywhere at anytime. Its not the tattooing I meant its the tattooing style....an original Mexican American artform ....one of only a few worldwide. Even the japanese copied patterns from the chinese...yet despite this only chicano artwork is one of teh greatest original artwork defining a people. Piccasso invented abstract art leading to camoflague and other inventions. Chicano artwork has been styled over the world over and anyone who has more then a few tattoos has some that have throwbacks to southwestern Mexicans. It is the most sought after internet querry when seeking tattoos...its on Ed Hardy-and all new fashions....

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by xxx » April 22nd, 2011, 8:18 am

mayugastank wrote:I cant give credit to anyone for rap.

People been making music since teh begining of man.........

Its not MUSIC its a style of MUSIC.....

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by xxx » April 22nd, 2011, 8:21 am

xxx wrote:
mayugastank wrote:I cant give credit to anyone for rap.

People been making music since teh begining of man.........

Its not MUSIC its a style of MUSIC.....



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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by Low_Dogg » April 22nd, 2011, 11:34 pm

mexicanz cant rap for mess tho

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by ViciousRidah » April 23rd, 2011, 2:20 am

mayugastank wrote:I cant give credit to anyone for rap.

People been making music since teh begining of man.........

Its not MUSIC its a style of MUSIC.
And just like Chicanos had their style of tattoos. Blacks had their own style of music that has been copied throughout the masses of America in the 20th century and is even copied still till this day. Even Chicanos admire American black music; sometimes they do a better job ''preserving black music'' than blacks themselves,it is not hard to find Chicanos blasting old school soul funk and electro funk jams in their rides.

Black culture affecting the American mainstream does not start with Hip Hop.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by mayugastank » April 24th, 2011, 1:25 pm

ViciousRidah wrote:
mayugastank wrote:I cant give credit to anyone for rap.

People been making music since teh begining of man.........

Its not MUSIC its a style of MUSIC.
And just like Chicanos had their style of tattoos. Blacks had their own style of music that has been copied throughout the masses of America in the 20th century and is even copied still till this day. Even Chicanos admire American black music; sometimes they do a better job ''preserving black music'' than blacks themselves,it is not hard to find Chicanos blasting old school soul funk and electro funk jams in their rides.

Black culture affecting the American mainstream does not start with Hip Hop.

I was using ---sarcasm. Absouletly true. Its not African Music the people of the world listen to....its African American. Its unique to the 40 million African Americans of the United States and really if you think about it guy--anywhere people of African descent land they absouletly CONQUER the music of the land. Brazil-Puerto Rico-Cuba-Samba,Salsa,Merengue,Cumbia,Bacchata,Reggaeton all are really defined by the African descendants of the land. The vocie of the people is loud the world over. What I was saying is how XXX said that he didnt give credit to Chicanos for tattoos as many people had tattoos previously .....which is 100% true. What I said was that the "style" known as Fine Lined Black and Grey is a Chicano form of art and that is started amongst Mexican Americans and like rap-motown-RNB-Funk and Jazz are all sung in English and despite this NO ONE can take away the fact that the music is completely African American since "caucasians" wouldnt have started or made this music without the African Americans of the land.

The United States didnt really have a tattoo culture-the Sailor Jerry type tattoos were copies of Seamens maps and compass designs. They were also sparrows and good luck charms sailors believed in to ward off the beasts of the sea. Most of these tattoos were amateur and lacked detail like most tattoos throughout history. Sailor Jerry Collins really was the one to popularize this form of tattooing and he didnt get detailed till he met chicanos who had been released from prison in Long Beachs' marina. The PIKE. Ed Hardy another famous tattooist was deeply immersed in Chicano culture and art....he practiced tattooing in East Los Angelos and was the owner of one of the most famous tattoo studios worldwide. He had Fredddy Negrete( a banger from Maravilla) who really showed him the fine line detail that chicanos practiced. If people really think about modern tattooing it is a really really new artform. The war designs arent what people are getting tattooed its the designs of the chicano convict that really shaped the art. This art has developed over at least 80 years. It has changed and become more incredelious but believe this "chicano artwork" has changed the tattoo world WAY more then the world has changed "chicano artwork". Next time you go out take a look around at what the youth is wearing and youll see the fonts, stylization-patterns-designs and artwork of Chicanos and Japanese. ALMOST COMPLETELY. When youve grown up around this art and seen it flourish seeing other people wearing and getting what youve always known as "your peoples' artwork" is a really weird thing....seeing blacks/asians/whites getting all the patterns that 20 years ago were new to us..is like seeing thru a timepiece. All these designs and patterns the rappers/ballers/actors are getting are antique chicano designs and their is a completely new pattern-artwork and design amongst chicanos now that make these old designs seem outdated. Its like the world is 10 years behind on what we are doing today. The day of the dead mixed in with chicano artwork is becoming American Mainstream tattooing....all races are getting it. Yet this art was changing in the early 90s. Its just now making its way to American Mainstream and actually infected all of Sailor Jerry tattoo designs.....America is a melting pot.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by mayugastank » April 24th, 2011, 1:59 pm

xxx wrote:i cant give any race credit for tattoos.

The Islanders been doing it.

They used abstract patterns that were ethnocentric.Known as tribal this style hasnt been even close to as popular as the Chicano and Japanese who used patterns-figures and incorporated the flames and color. I would compare their style of tattooing to Picassos artwork.

US Sailers from way back during WWI & WWII had tattoos.

The copied the styles and patterns of the Japanese-they also used some seafaring good luck charms. The art didnt take off outside of the sailor till Ed Hardy and Jerry Collins moved ina and around East Los Angelos and Long Beach. They witnessed the flames/skulls and patterns of chicanos and used teh fine needle work to take their art mainstream.


The Whiteboy Motor Cycle Gangs had/have Tattoos.

Outside of California they had ZERO patterns of their own. They were being tattooed mainly by chicano convicts in the California region. The patterns are complete throwbacks to chicano art and if you look for any style or patterns outside of California they have NONE. I read a book detailing how bikers would get tattooed by chicanos because they considered them "the best in the prison". This tattooing of white bikers by chicano convicts is what made outlaw biker tattoos what they are. But outside of anywhere where chicanos lived they had no tattooing culture and really developed even the idea of their clubs from Chicano gang members.


ExLos Chicanos had/have Tattoos.


Sure have and have had for many generations-each new group of taggers/ravers/and even the way society changes -changes the artwork. The artwork in turn has developed thru the world over. If not for the Japanese teh art wouldnt be as detailed as is and they deserve their credit for helping set it off for the style.And u see


these Samuri Japenese..........

The most popular along with Chicano artwork....twe've both borrowed tremendouly from eachother. Theyve used our form of art and we've used theirs. they began really becoming more detailed and incorporating chicano artwork in the 1980s. The invention of the number 1 and 2 needle patterns ( patterned after the chicano style for using guitar string sharpened on a cell wall) changed their form of art tremendously. They were the first to perfect the color patterns and ink. They OWN colored tattooing as CHICANOS OWN BLACK AND GREY>
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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by ViciousRidah » April 24th, 2011, 5:00 pm

mayugastank wrote:
ViciousRidah wrote:
mayugastank wrote:I cant give credit to anyone for rap.

People been making music since teh begining of man.........

Its not MUSIC its a style of MUSIC.
And just like Chicanos had their style of tattoos. Blacks had their own style of music that has been copied throughout the masses of America in the 20th century and is even copied still till this day. Even Chicanos admire American black music; sometimes they do a better job ''preserving black music'' than blacks themselves,it is not hard to find Chicanos blasting old school soul funk and electro funk jams in their rides.

Black culture affecting the American mainstream does not start with Hip Hop.

I was using ---sarcasm. Absouletly true. Its not African Music the people of the world listen to....its African American. Its unique to the 40 million African Americans of the United States and really if you think about it guy--anywhere people of African descent land they absouletly CONQUER the music of the land. Brazil-Puerto Rico-Cuba-Samba,Salsa,Merengue,Cumbia,Bacchata,Reggaeton all are really defined by the African descendants of the land. The vocie of the people is loud the world over. What I was saying is how XXX said that he didnt give credit to Chicanos for tattoos as many people had tattoos previously .....which is 100% true. What I said was that the "style" known as Fine Lined Black and Grey is a Chicano form of art and that is started amongst Mexican Americans and like rap-motown-RNB-Funk and Jazz are all sung in English and despite this NO ONE can take away the fact that the music is completely African American since "caucasians" wouldnt have started or made this music without the African Americans of the land.

Its just now making its way to American Mainstream and actually infected all of Sailor Jerry tattoo designs.....America is a melting pot.
I think we are starting to see eye to eye

Cuba and Brazil is responsible for conjuring up many latin American musical styles, Dominican republic(Bachata and Mernge) and Panama(Reggaetone originated here not Puerto Rico) has played its part some what also. But these musical styles are played all through out Latin America and the World and next to American music, Latin American music is the most receptive type of music to be played at any social gathering in America and Europe.Think of when you go aboard cruises you can always see Latin American music being played , why wouldn't it be played.
Latin music is based on African music period.So African music did indeed influence the rest of the world.

Many African American music is indeed based on African music also , it just has made great leaps and bounds in transitioning and evolving into what it is today,but that is neither here nor there.

African American music is very much admired throughout America, this is how it always has been , and it does not start with hip hop,even with many of the styles in fashion through out America was a result of the styles that were synonymous with African American culture. Think back to even the 70s ,even when white folks tried to break off and form disco,it always mimicked something from African American music,disco was just a light form of funk,but forget trying to study and analyze disco ,I could careless about it.

My point is that a lot of stuff taken to make Hip Hop or a lot stuff done in hip hop was already done in the 70s, which was done all over, so you can't say hip hop or rap videos are responsible for giving most blacks across America style.

Blacks across America always had their own style in specific regions (even in the south),blacks are responsible for conceiving their own style.

So I'm not going to say that in America since blacks were around many other people and culture we incorporated many elements of style from these cultures, NO UH UH, we would then be giving too much credit to outsiders.

Let us give credit were its due,

I am fully aware of chicanos making tattooing what it is, quite frankly I am not to concerned about staking claim to modern tattoos develop.

I am more concerned about black culture retaining its recognition and persistence in innovating many fashionable styles that become the trend.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by Silencioso » April 24th, 2011, 10:53 pm

...Think back to even the 70s ,even when white folks tried to break off and form disco,it always mimicked something from African American music,disco was just a light form of funk,but forget trying to study and analyze disco ,I could careless about it...

LOL! DON'T BLAME WHITE PEOPLE FOR DISCO! THEY'VE DONE MANY BAD THINGS BUT THAT'S NOT ONE OF THEM. DISCO WAS CREATED BY GAY BLACK GUYS IN NEW YORK. MOST WHITE KIDS I KNEW HATED IT. THE 70'S WAS DEFINATELY A ROCK DECADE FOR WHITES.
LED ZEPPELIN, BLACK SABBATH, KISS...THAT WHOLE TRIP.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by ViciousRidah » April 25th, 2011, 10:28 am

Silencioso wrote:...Think back to even the 70s ,even when white folks tried to break off and form disco,it always mimicked something from African American music,disco was just a light form of funk,but forget trying to study and analyze disco ,I could careless about it...

LOL! DON'T BLAME WHITE PEOPLE FOR DISCO! THEY'VE DONE MANY BAD THINGS BUT THAT'S NOT ONE OF THEM. DISCO WAS CREATED BY GAY BLACK GUYS IN NEW YORK. MOST WHITE KIDS I KNEW HATED IT. THE 70'S WAS DEFINATELY A ROCK DECADE FOR WHITES.
LED ZEPPELIN, BLACK SABBATH, KISS...THAT WHOLE TRIP.
I know ''disco''was created by blacks ,latinos and gays in New York, but it was based on many elements of soul-funk music of the 70s,it was pretty much ''diet-funk ''.

I don't know how old you are, but disco went out of style before I was born, I know at least that ''disco'' was a big thing through out the country, it was very much mainstream and it did catch an ear with certain people in the masses.

White kids were entrenched in Rock N Roll during 70s, of course ,but even in the 70s many of the elements of rock n roll were based on a lot of black artist who crossed over into rock. Sly and the Family Stone,Rick James, Parliament-Funkadelic,and Jimi Hendrix. These dudes helped to influence rock n roll with their own styles, Jimi Hendrix helped to innovate that ''acid rock'',psychedelic,and hard rock , he actually pioneered it into what it is today.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by buLLetxx2 » April 27th, 2011, 9:37 am

ViciousRidah wrote:
Silencioso wrote:...Think back to even the 70s ,even when white folks tried to break off and form disco,it always mimicked something from African American music,disco was just a light form of funk,but forget trying to study and analyze disco ,I could careless about it...

LOL! DON'T BLAME WHITE PEOPLE FOR DISCO! THEY'VE DONE MANY BAD THINGS BUT THAT'S NOT ONE OF THEM. DISCO WAS CREATED BY GAY BLACK GUYS IN NEW YORK. MOST WHITE KIDS I KNEW HATED IT. THE 70'S WAS DEFINATELY A ROCK DECADE FOR WHITES.
LED ZEPPELIN, BLACK SABBATH, KISS...THAT WHOLE TRIP.
I know ''disco''was created by blacks ,latinos and gays in New York, but it was based on many elements of soul-funk music of the 70s,it was pretty much ''diet-funk ''.

I don't know how old you are, but disco went out of style before I was born, I know at least that ''disco'' was a big thing through out the country, it was very much mainstream and it did catch an ear with certain people in the masses.

White kids were entrenched in Rock N Roll during 70s, of course ,but even in the 70s many of the elements of rock n roll were based on a lot of black artist who crossed over into rock. Sly and the Family Stone,Rick James, Parliament-Funkadelic,and Jimi Hendrix. These dudes helped to influence rock n roll with their own styles, Jimi Hendrix helped to innovate that ''acid rock'',psychedelic,and hard rock , he actually pioneered it into what it is today.
Disco was it's own (sub)cuture separate from the rock (sub)culture of the 70s. And, yeah, all that rock that was made in the 60s and 70s was white folks from Brittain emulating a Jazzy blues sound (muddy waters, bb king, coltrane) that didnt quite catch on (mainstream outside the south and midwest) till after the Britts tweaked, repackaged and sold it back to us in the form of Led Zep, Clapton(Cream), etc. It's the transatlantic (sound)wave theory.

And I got a good lol from the "Diet funk" line.
goodshit mang

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by Quepolo3 » April 27th, 2011, 10:07 am

"diet-funk"- I thought that was a good way of putting it, as well.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by ViciousRidah » April 27th, 2011, 5:19 pm

buLLetxx2 wrote:
ViciousRidah wrote:
Silencioso wrote:...Think back to even the 70s ,even when white folks tried to break off and form disco,it always mimicked something from African American music,disco was just a light form of funk,but forget trying to study and analyze disco ,I could careless about it...

LOL! DON'T BLAME WHITE PEOPLE FOR DISCO! THEY'VE DONE MANY BAD THINGS BUT THAT'S NOT ONE OF THEM. DISCO WAS CREATED BY GAY BLACK GUYS IN NEW YORK. MOST WHITE KIDS I KNEW HATED IT. THE 70'S WAS DEFINATELY A ROCK DECADE FOR WHITES.
LED ZEPPELIN, BLACK SABBATH, KISS...THAT WHOLE TRIP.
I know ''disco''was created by blacks ,latinos and gays in New York, but it was based on many elements of soul-funk music of the 70s,it was pretty much ''diet-funk ''.

I don't know how old you are, but disco went out of style before I was born, I know at least that ''disco'' was a big thing through out the country, it was very much mainstream and it did catch an ear with certain people in the masses.

White kids were entrenched in Rock N Roll during 70s, of course ,but even in the 70s many of the elements of rock n roll were based on a lot of black artist who crossed over into rock. Sly and the Family Stone,Rick James, Parliament-Funkadelic,and Jimi Hendrix. These dudes helped to influence rock n roll with their own styles, Jimi Hendrix helped to innovate that ''acid rock'',psychedelic,and hard rock , he actually pioneered it into what it is today.
Disco was it's own (sub)cuture separate from the rock (sub)culture of the 70s. And, yeah, all that rock that was made in the 60s and 70s was white folks from Brittain emulating a Jazzy blues sound (muddy waters, bb king, coltrane) that didnt quite catch on (mainstream outside the south and midwest) till after the Britts tweaked, repackaged and sold it back to us in the form of Led Zep, Clapton(Cream), etc. It's the transatlantic (sound)wave theory.

And I got a good lol from the "Diet funk" line.
goodshit mang

Muddy Waters,Chuck Berry,Little Richard, etc would help to influence of white Rock N Rollers like Elvis ,The Beatles, and Mama and Papas (what ever their name is) but this is a decade before the acid rock,psychedelic rock,and hard rock.The former artist would help introduce ROCK N ROLL itself arguably.

Rick James,Jimi Hendrix,Parliament-Funkadelic,Sly Stone, and even bands like the Bar-Kays help to innovate the ACID ROCK and PSYCHEDELIC ROCK of the 70s. I am talking about helping to conceive those rock n roll styles that Led Zep,Clap and Kiss ,if we are speaking of acid rock and psychedelic.So they can try to take credit for it all they want, the proof is in the records and recordings!








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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by ViciousRidah » April 27th, 2011, 5:29 pm

buLLetxx2 wrote:
ViciousRidah wrote:
Silencioso wrote:...Think back to even the 70s ,even when white folks tried to break off and form disco,it always mimicked something from African American music,disco was just a light form of funk,but forget trying to study and analyze disco ,I could careless about it...

LOL! DON'T BLAME WHITE PEOPLE FOR DISCO! THEY'VE DONE MANY BAD THINGS BUT THAT'S NOT ONE OF THEM. DISCO WAS CREATED BY GAY BLACK GUYS IN NEW YORK. MOST WHITE KIDS I KNEW HATED IT. THE 70'S WAS DEFINATELY A ROCK DECADE FOR WHITES.
LED ZEPPELIN, BLACK SABBATH, KISS...THAT WHOLE TRIP.
I know ''disco''was created by blacks ,latinos and gays in New York, but it was based on many elements of soul-funk music of the 70s,it was pretty much ''diet-funk ''.

I don't know how old you are, but disco went out of style before I was born, I know at least that ''disco'' was a big thing through out the country, it was very much mainstream and it did catch an ear with certain people in the masses.

White kids were entrenched in Rock N Roll during 70s, of course ,but even in the 70s many of the elements of rock n roll were based on a lot of black artist who crossed over into rock. Sly and the Family Stone,Rick James, Parliament-Funkadelic,and Jimi Hendrix. These dudes helped to influence rock n roll with their own styles, Jimi Hendrix helped to innovate that ''acid rock'',psychedelic,and hard rock , he actually pioneered it into what it is today.
Disco was it's own (sub)cuture separate from the rock (sub)culture of the 70s. And, yeah, all that rock that was made in the 60s and 70s was white folks from Brittain emulating a Jazzy blues sound (muddy waters, bb king, coltrane) that didnt quite catch on (mainstream outside the south and midwest) till after the Britts tweaked, repackaged and sold it back to us in the form of Led Zep, Clapton(Cream), etc. It's the transatlantic (sound)wave theory.

REFINED AND EDITED

REFINED AND EDITED

And I got a good lol from the "Diet funk" line.
goodshit mang

Muddy Waters,Chuck Berry,Little Richard, etc would help to influence white Rock N Rollers like Elvis ,The Beatles, and Mama and Papas (what ever their name is) ,but this is a decade before the acid rock,psychedelic rock,and hard rock became mainstream.The former artist would help introduce ROCK N ROLL itself arguably.

Rick James,Jimi Hendrix,Parliament-Funkadelic,Sly Stone, and even bands like the Bar-Kays help to innovate the ACID ROCK and PSYCHEDELIC ROCK of the 70s. THESE JUST MENTIONED ARTIST I am talking about helping to conceive those rock n roll styles that Led Zep,Clap and Kiss LIKED TO PERFORM,if we are speaking of acid rock and psychedelic genesis.So they(Led Zep,Kiss.) can try to take credit for it all they want, the proof is in the records and recordings!








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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by perongregory » April 27th, 2011, 8:24 pm

What people aren't seeing about disco is Disco was really a middle class and up music geared for the clubs, party people, and young adults and up for the weekend. Rock, rap, etc. were mainly for young cats, and rap partly got going because the poor cats in the Bronx couldn't get into all the hot disco clubs in manhattan.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by ViciousRidah » April 27th, 2011, 9:43 pm

^^
The aforementioned artist such as Sly-Stone,Jimi Hendrix,Funkadelic,etc also helped to innovate PUNK FUNK and PUNK ROCK,and we all know how PUNK ROCK is synonymous with the rock n roll artist of the 80s,I'm not rock n roll fan but I would take Led Zep and KISS as some punk rockers that started out in the 1970s.

@Perengregory

Disco was indeed for the high class and ritzy individuals of the 70s that didn't mean it did not have people from lower class backgrounds in their club.

The pioneers of ''Hip Hop'' would like to be dramatic and say that their rap music wasn't played in disco clubs, but wasn't sugar hill ''rappers delight'' in a disco club.I think these hip hop pioneers are out right lying and are trying to be dramatic about it.

Check out this article I found.

http://www.feverrecords.com/about.shtml
FEVER ENTERPRISES, formed in 1976 by entrepreneur Sal Abbatiello, encompasses all areas of the music industry including his own record label, artist management company, publishing company, concert promotions, and night clubs. Sal Abbatiello, a Bronx born and native, initially started the business as a bartender in his father's bar.

The disco era was taking over the club scene in Manhattan with Studio 54, two years later in 1972 at the early age of 19, knowing this was the new music of that time, he went on to open his own club, it was the first disco in the Bronx, called the Playhouse. This is where he started promoting his own shows by handing out flyers and selling tickets himself.

In 1976, his career took off when he and his dad opened the "DISCO FEVER." The club, first catered to a 35 and over crowed, but Sal, having heard and seen kids in the streets of the South Bronx rapping over a DJ cutting records, knew he was about to see the next era of music. He needed the best DJ in the street, so he went from park to park and the only name that kept coming up was DJ "Grand Master Flash." So in the summer of 1977 after convincing "Grand Master Flash" to play at the Fever, history was about to be made, Sal had successfully taken rap music off the streets and into a real venue where people could come and hear on a weekly basis. This innovative music trend was surprisingly not discovered in a studio, but between the walls of a small club in the South Bronx. By 1979 he had the biggest DJ's in rap history playing at the club. Along with Flash he had Luv-Bug Starski, DJ Hollywood, Eddie Cheba, DJ Jun-Bug, Brucie Bee, Sweet Gee and Reggie Wells.

In the summer of 1979, Abbatiello help start the Entertainer's Basketball League along with Greg of the Disco Four rap group and Mr. Magic. All the games were played at Mt. Morris Park in Harlem, several of the league's players went on to the NBA, such as Walter Berry, Richie Adams, Kevin Williams, and Pearl Washington. Sal had also won the Most Valuable player Award two years in a row at the league's Celebrity Game. Today 21 years later Greg still runs the league, with major sponsors and rap icons such as Puff Daddy, Loud Records, Fat Joe, and the Ruff Riders, the games are played at Ruckers Park and has been featured on a TNT special.

Persuaded by Russell Simmons of Def Jam Recordings to begin his own record company, Abbatiello formed FEVER RECORDS in 1982. His first release was "Games People Play," produced by Kurtis Blow and Jellybean Benitez, the artist was "Sweet G" was the general manager of "The FEVER" as well as the first artist released on FEVER RECORDS. "Games People Play" which was co- written by Sal Abbatiello was the first rap single to combine singing and rapping. The single went to # 1 in New York on WBLS, WKTU, and KISS. The single was the first rap record to feature singing on it and is a rap classic.
At the same time take a look at this list right here

''The Latin Quarter'' a famous hip hop club or were hip hop got its start they played a lot of disco music and was damn near a disco club.

http://www.luismariodjentertainment.com ... e-list.htm

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by Silencioso » April 28th, 2011, 1:10 pm

^^
The aforementioned artist such as Sly-Stone,Jimi Hendrix,Funkadelic,etc also helped to innovate PUNK FUNK and PUNK ROCK,and we all know how PUNK ROCK is synonymous with the rock n roll artist of the 80s,I'm not rock n roll fan but I would take Led Zep and KISS as some punk rockers that started out in the 1970s.

Punk rock was invented by NY groups like the Ramones. It was inspired by 60's rock groups like the Stooges and MC5.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by perongregory » April 28th, 2011, 1:16 pm

Silencioso is right but it original punk has roots in the rock n roll riffs of chuck berry just sped up a lil more its the same 1-4-5 progression, then take the energy of the stooges and mc5 and you get punk. HC sought to totally get away from the blues light that rockn roll was until them and probably some heavier metal acts of the late 70's and 80's.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by perongregory » April 28th, 2011, 1:18 pm

ViciousRidah wrote:^^
The aforementioned artist such as Sly-Stone,Jimi Hendrix,Funkadelic,etc also helped to innovate PUNK FUNK and PUNK ROCK,and we all know how PUNK ROCK is synonymous with the rock n roll artist of the 80s,I'm not rock n roll fan but I would take Led Zep and KISS as some punk rockers that started out in the 1970s.

@Perengregory

Disco was indeed for the high class and ritzy individuals of the 70s that didn't mean it did not have people from lower class backgrounds in their club.

The pioneers of ''Hip Hop'' would like to be dramatic and say that their rap music wasn't played in disco clubs, but wasn't sugar hill ''rappers delight'' in a disco club.I think these hip hop pioneers are out right lying and are trying to be dramatic about it.

Check out this article I found.

http://www.feverrecords.com/about.shtml
FEVER ENTERPRISES, formed in 1976 by entrepreneur Sal Abbatiello, encompasses all areas of the music industry including his own record label, artist management company, publishing company, concert promotions, and night clubs. Sal Abbatiello, a Bronx born and native, initially started the business as a bartender in his father's bar.

The disco era was taking over the club scene in Manhattan with Studio 54, two years later in 1972 at the early age of 19, knowing this was the new music of that time, he went on to open his own club, it was the first disco in the Bronx, called the Playhouse. This is where he started promoting his own shows by handing out flyers and selling tickets himself.

In 1976, his career took off when he and his dad opened the "DISCO FEVER." The club, first catered to a 35 and over crowed, but Sal, having heard and seen kids in the streets of the South Bronx rapping over a DJ cutting records, knew he was about to see the next era of music. He needed the best DJ in the street, so he went from park to park and the only name that kept coming up was DJ "Grand Master Flash." So in the summer of 1977 after convincing "Grand Master Flash" to play at the Fever, history was about to be made, Sal had successfully taken rap music off the streets and into a real venue where people could come and hear on a weekly basis. This innovative music trend was surprisingly not discovered in a studio, but between the walls of a small club in the South Bronx. By 1979 he had the biggest DJ's in rap history playing at the club. Along with Flash he had Luv-Bug Starski, DJ Hollywood, Eddie Cheba, DJ Jun-Bug, Brucie Bee, Sweet Gee and Reggie Wells.

In the summer of 1979, Abbatiello help start the Entertainer's Basketball League along with Greg of the Disco Four rap group and Mr. Magic. All the games were played at Mt. Morris Park in Harlem, several of the league's players went on to the NBA, such as Walter Berry, Richie Adams, Kevin Williams, and Pearl Washington. Sal had also won the Most Valuable player Award two years in a row at the league's Celebrity Game. Today 21 years later Greg still runs the league, with major sponsors and rap icons such as Puff Daddy, Loud Records, Fat Joe, and the Ruff Riders, the games are played at Ruckers Park and has been featured on a TNT special.

Persuaded by Russell Simmons of Def Jam Recordings to begin his own record company, Abbatiello formed FEVER RECORDS in 1982. His first release was "Games People Play," produced by Kurtis Blow and Jellybean Benitez, the artist was "Sweet G" was the general manager of "The FEVER" as well as the first artist released on FEVER RECORDS. "Games People Play" which was co- written by Sal Abbatiello was the first rap single to combine singing and rapping. The single went to # 1 in New York on WBLS, WKTU, and KISS. The single was the first rap record to feature singing on it and is a rap classic.
At the same time take a look at this list right here

''The Latin Quarter'' a famous hip hop club or were hip hop got its start they played a lot of disco music and was damn near a disco club.

http://www.luismariodjentertainment.com ... e-list.htm
Hip hoppers always talk about the latin quarter but that was one club in the bronx. and hip hop had been in the parks st parties a few years before rappers delight middle class disco palatable song .

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by ViciousRidah » April 28th, 2011, 3:53 pm

perongregory wrote: Hip hoppers always talk about the latin quarter but that was one club in the bronx. and hip hop had been in the parks st parties a few years before rappers delight middle class disco palatable song .
I understand that, but what I meant was that hip hop artist and hip hop fanatics during the 70s did not have antipathy or disdain towards disco since many disco songs were played at hip hop spots. At the same time I would say that early hip hop pioneers even frequented disco clubs.

Yes early hip hop artist played their music at black parties and project days, but the roots of that were just what it was hood celebrations.

I would also say the black parties have roots in reggae dance halls and parties that were frequent in Jamaica.

perongregory wrote:Silencioso is right but it original punk has roots in the rock n roll riffs of chuck berry just sped up a lil more its the same 1-4-5 progression, then take the energy of the stooges and mc5 and you get punk. HC sought to totally get away from the blues light that rockn roll was until them and probably some heavier metal acts of the late 70's and 80's.
I don't know dogg Chuck Berry seems more like a blues and swing rock n roll type of artist .I would figure that the rock n roll like acid rock,psychedlic,and even punk rock was ripped off early funk artist like Ike Turner.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by ViciousRidah » April 28th, 2011, 4:15 pm

*block parties* excuse me.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by mayugastank » May 5th, 2011, 11:54 am

Just watched a show on Detroit gangs. Detroit a large sprawling metropolis city with a huge amount of blacks -who have lived there alot longer then Los Angelos African Americans. The blacks in Detroit built that city thru unions and autoworkers. A vast majority of the residents have roots to the deep South and most came by way of the "big migration" of African Americans out of the south from the 30-50s. What they didnt have was an established gang culture. In 2010 their biggest gang problems are the bloods. WHY?

Ive said it before and I say it again. Blacks had and have no gang culture except that touched on by Mexican Americans. In every city in the Southwest with Mexican Americans established historied and trhiving gangs were around. The gangs of Los Angelos in most cases 80-100 years old minium were actually throwbacks to El Paso chucos. Blacks can argue that Chicanos in states outside of Calfiornia are claiming Los Angelos based gangs NOW......but reality up until 10-15 years ago citys' and states like North Carolina-Virginia-New York-Massachussetttes-Washington had ZERO ZERO chicanos---it wasnt till Mexican Americans from established citys' moved into these little outskirt farming towns that Chicano/Sureno gangs began to get a foothold. In turn these newer established gangs have begun to change the fashion and style of every place they touch down.

My question really is simple WHERE ARE the crip/blood like "hoods" in Harlem-Dade County-Detroit-Jackson-Charlotte-Atlanta? WHERE? nonexistant............WHY? because Southern immigration was away from those states and citys not into those states and citys. It wasnt till blacks from California moved back to the South and surrounding that crips/bloods/lowriding/getting inked up/stacking/colors/gang graffiti and such began to change the South. Its also changed the way the world and the country views the way tattoos are handed out ..........loosing really the storied history of the way my people defied White American society.

Why no calls of copying/appropriating/stealing/faking and trying to be like Mexicans? When we have citys with 400 years of history that blacks from Los Angelos go and change by dropping everything CHICANOS are into Southern Black culture? How in the world would a city like DETROIT-not have anything outside of what African American from Los Angelos bring? How are the biggest gangs in old ancient and the first black citys' like Jackson now having a West Coast identity crisis.


It aint hard to see........everything we created has been appropriated by blacks. Everything. Yet not a Chicano outside of NOWHERE besides me even bringing it up. Guaranteed when Maino got his neckchain and WAK got his black and grey they knew NOTHING of the history of my peoples artwork.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by perongregory » May 5th, 2011, 11:58 am

You lost shut it up we already establihed that without whites there's no mexican gangs, without blacks no mexican gang flare.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by Sentenza » May 5th, 2011, 4:36 pm

^^Agree. Impetuous ethnocentrism makes you blind to the facts.

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