Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

These concepts are socially constructed and have been given much weight. What are your thoughts?
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Unread post by TheReal » June 6th, 2007, 12:44 pm

He said:

Now I know a pachuco, older than dirt, from Los Angeles (his son in law was a real old skool veterano from Varrio Grape 60's and 70's era back when the Latinos and the Blacks were all in one gang there) whose father ran with Tin Tan (Germán Valdés) in Juarez and he told me straight out that Tin Tan made the Mexican American Pachucos famous in Mexico and that the Pachuko style did NOT orginate there.

My response:

I know it didn't...


He said:

Furthermore, they spoke caló which was a mixture of Spanish and English based on the lingo of Mexican immigrants to America as a result of the Mexican Revolutionary War.


My response:

I never denied this, but at the same time, pachucos/cholos, and mexicans/chicanos in general, have incorporated ebonics and black slang into their speech....

He said:

Now Gibby and others argued endlessly with The Real about all of this a few years ago and the discussion got deep. It caused me to seek out and ask some of these remaining Mexican Pachucos (including some of the migratory pachucos that were hopping trains working fields in different locations) what the story was. They told me that the Pachuco manner of dress and style originated in El Paso, Texas and moved westward, following the line of migration of Mexican railroad workers ("traqueros") into Los Angeles, where it developed further.

My response:

I'm familiar with this revisionist historical interpretation, but they have to remember that pachuco culture just wasn't about dress, but attitude, and other sundry cultural textures.

For example, what music did the pachucos listen to and vibe off of-NORTENOS AND MARIACHI? Or did pachucos listen to jazz and swing music, and perform popular dances that were inspired by black art forms?

The style of dress (zoot suits), the music, the slang, the walk, and much of their demeanor, gestures and mannerisms, can find a direct correlation to those black jazz musicians back east, and in the midwest, who performed all across the country-INCLUDING TEXAS!

Furthermore, saying that the zoot suit style originated amongst the pachucos, in Texas, is like me saying that Chicano Rap started in L.A., amongst the mexicans, only to spread out and influence other mexicans to engage in such an art form, throughout the southwest, therefore rap/hip-hop music, or west coast gangsta rap music, originated with mexicans in L.A.-IT JUST DOESN'T COMPUTE!

Why? Because we all know (or should know) that black folks created rap/hip-hop music, back east, before their brethren out west picked up on it, only for mexicans to inevitably pick up on it out west, from the blacks who lived out west, whereby they (mexicans) spread this specific genre (chicano rap) to other mexicans across the country, and possibly, around the world.

The same analogy applies to the pachucos and zoot culture, which included not only the duds, but the music, the dances, and overall culture-MUCH OF WHICH CAME FROM BLACK FOLKS DURING THE TIME!

He said:

Now I also have reason to believe, based on my research, that to some extent (and here's where a point of argumentation lies between the Latinos and the Blacks) that the black performers, who were dressing sharp in the era after the turn of the century, influenced this.

My response:

They did.

He said:

Cholo style is a different discussion (which I'm sure we'll have... lol) and bandanas were first sported by Southern Mexicans in the prisons in the fifties (the only railroad rag available at the time with the red rag becoming available later in the prisons), taken in the late 1950s by La Eme, and worn on the streets in the 60's (which I saw with my own eyes).

My response:

The question I posed to you originally was akin to-DID THE SURS SPORT THESE RAGS AS GANG IDENTIFERS, OR WERE THEY SPORTED BECAUSE OF CULTURAL REASONS, OUTSIDE OF THAT WHICH IS REFERRED TO AS HOODLUM GEAR?

You see, as I said before, my folks sported blue and red rags, back during this timeframe, when they use to work out in the fields. I have an old album of blues musicians from Angola prison in Louisiana, with many on the cover, wearing bandannas, but that doesn't mean that these bandannas were affilliated with any criminal organization, or gang structure.

Mexicans have alway worn bandannas, whether they be blue, or red, but did they extol them as significant gang identifers, similar to the crips, or the bloods, and make them their banners, back in the day, similar to the crips and the bloods from the early 70's, all the way to the late 90's-NO THEY DID NOT!

I remember eses from back in the day, both north and south, and so did you, and you can't tell me that they use to tog themselves down in blue gear, with the blue rag, similar to how they do today, which was how black gangs rolled back in the day. Now mind you, I may not be able to remember the 50's, but I damn sure remember the 70's onward.

He said:


Nortenos didn't fly red until after 1968 (the year Nuestra Familia formed at Tracy). Interestingly, when I've asked them about it they said the red flag is in memory of Ceaser Chavez.

My response:

That may be true, however, I knew nortenos from the 70's (I'm originally from Oakland), who would sport the blue rag, which ties into my thesis, and other folks thesis, that the red and blue rag distinguishing the north and south, occured in the late 70's.

Then again, you may be right on this one...

He said:

You have to understand that Raymond Washington, a 15 year-old student at Fremont High School who started what would later become known as the Crips in 1969, wasn't even on the map when Surenos were flying blue rags. I mean Nuestra Familia was flying red before Raymond Washington ever flew a blue rag. And the bloods flew red after the crips flew blue.

My response:

Again, the surs back in the day, and at least during my day (speaking from the 70's on), may have SPORTED the blue bandanna, but they damn sure didn't FLY the blue rag, similar to what the crips did back in the day, and on up to the late 90's, which is a difference.

I remember cholos from L.A., back in the mid 80's, when I really became aware, who would diss black gang bangers, for going all crazy OVER COLORS!!!! And mind you, these same cholo cats weren't dressed in blue, or togged down in blue, but rather aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllll of the cholos back in the day-TOGGED DOWN IN EARTH TONE COLORS, TO DISTINGUISH THEMSELVES FROM THE CRIPS, AND YOU KNOW THIS!

Not only that, up north, NORTENOS WEREN'T SPORTING RED GEAR! Again, I'll repeat-NORTENOS WEREN'T SPORTING READ GEAR, especially in places like Oakland, San Jose (yeah man, because of my childhood, I lived all throughout Cali).

Don't get me wrong, my memory does allow me to remember surenos during the mid to late 80's, sporting blue bandannas, but guess what? THAT WAS THE ONLY BLUE ON THEM (besides blue slacks maybe, which you began to see more or in the early 90's, by mexican bangers)! And you know what else? My memory also allows me to remember nortenos in Oakland sporting red bandannas, but guess what? THAT WAS THE ONLY THING ON THEM THAT WAS RED!

And you know what else? THESE SURS AND NORTENOS, BUT ESPECIALLY SURS, DIDN'T FLY THE RED, OR THE BLUE, AS A BANNER, THE WAY MODERN SURS DO TODAY, WHICH THEY GOT FROM CRIP CULTURE-which is a difference, than sporting it.

Hell, I remember seeing cholos and surs, in L.A back in the day, without blue bandannas, but just themselves, representing.

So naw man, I hear what you're saying, and I respect your age and all, but even though I'm not as old as you are, I still can remember enough, to get a gauge on how things were, back in the day...

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Unread post by Rollin_inmy_SixFo » June 6th, 2007, 4:13 pm

TheReal wrote:I said:No one's talking as if mexicans just dropped off of the turnip truck in L.A. HOWEVER, you must admit, that many of your own people are trying to excise, excoriate and decimate, the cultural contributions of black folks in L.A., and posssibly around the country. This is done by many of your own people who claim that black folks stole all of their shit from mexicans, and that black folks try to act like mexicans, etc.
WHO are you talking about? Do you have lists of specific people who are doing these things? You speak of us as a single group of people who are coelescing and conspiring amongst each other. Like we all know each other or are related. ? If you can't provide lists of people who are doing those things then that blows up the rest of your argument. I don't want to hear about prison politics because those gangs don't run entire ethnicities. So if you can't do that then your argument is pretty much fu-cked. Nothing more than paranoia, suspicion, and ignorance.
Hell, many of your people claim that back in the day (20's, 30's, 40's, etc.), black folks had no culture, because we were too busy being preoccupied with living on plantations as slaves-this is what your boy Chino Grande said. So if anything, your people are the worst offenders, when it comes to your intentional misconceptions about black folks, and the cultural inputs.
Your people? Doesn't that sound RACIST to everybody? If somebody else came at you saying "YOUR PEOPLE" this "YOUR PEOPLE" that, anybody would automatically be labeled RACIST. To me, that is no different than some Klan member talking to me. So I am about to put you into that category and dismiss your entire argument somebody who doesn't have all of his faculties together. As somebody who aint right.

Hold on for a minute. What the funk does Chino Grande have to do with me? If you hadn't mentioned him, I would never have heard about him.

Worst offenders? Don't be a hypocrite. Man up and accept the fact that there are some who do and some who don't.
And the funny thing about all of this is-you know you've heard all this before, and so have I, from mexicans, to where many of your people are trying to intimidate, and have successfully bullied and intimidated, plenty of black folks in L.A., with these spurious revisionist histories.
You sound crazy. Ain't nothing wrong with bringing up history. Some of us go back centuries and beyond here in the southwest. We have deep history here and if you don't like it, too bad.
Again, no one is denying the mexican presence in L.A., and their cultural impact, per se, but I damn sure know that your people is downright lying on my people, with the implication, and outright stating, that black folks have no culture, and that all of their street culture in L.A. was taken from mexicans, WHICH IS A DAMN LIE!
There you go with the racist commentary: "YOUR PEOPLE." Who are you talking about? You keep saying YOUR PEOPLE YOUP PEOPLE YOUR PEOPLE. Maybe it's just your subconscious talking to you or something? So what if blacks were influenced by the cholo style? What's wrong with that? You act like Mexican Americans are beneath creating anything that appeals to others? Just accept the fact that we do our thing and sometimes it's fly. Give credit where credit is due.
He said:

You do that all the time on this board, to justify your racism against Mexicans Americans.

You still haven't proven the falsity in my claims. All I hear you doing now is whining like a little bitch!
You're the one who is whining about supposedly being decimated.
You see, your people can still want to decimate and diminish the importance or impact of black cultural influences, even if you are heavily influenced by them. In other words, I'm talking about the acts that comes from scoundrels, and the fact that many of your own people will say that blacks have no culture, and that we took all of our street culture from your people, while it is very apparent that your people took droves of cultural shit from my people, which is what makes mexicans who think this way (black folks have no culture; black folks took all of their culture from mexicans), and preach this foolishness-SOUL PATROLLERS AND CULTURAL BANDITS!
You keep saying "YOUR PEOPLE." You are probably one of the most racist posters ever on this board and probably a worse HYPOCRITE. The African American culture is heavily rooted in Anglo Saxon culture but I don't see you giving praise (or do you) to the white people on this board everytime they're in the room. Doesn't that make you a cultural bandit? I don't care if it was in the past forced on you or not, you have the option today to do what you want to do. Yes, I've said it before, there have been a few words that Mexican Americans have borrowed from black slang but the cholo style is overwhelmingly unique.
Why? Because they arrogate from another culture (black folks culture), but yet don't want to claim that they were ever influenced, or inspired by that culture (black), only to turn around and claim that the culture they borrowed from (black), borrowed all of their shit from them, INCLUDING THE THINGS THAT THEY BORROWED FROM THAT CULTURE!!
That's a hypocritical statement. Shouldn't you be praising the white man right about now?
It sounds confusing, right? Well, in the mist of that confusion, lies the dilemma, that is betwixt the discussions that are put forth, by your people, who will go over land and sea, by way of cyberspace, as well as other outlets, and claim that black folks have no culture, and that we never really produced any culture, let alone L.A. street culture, AND THAT WE GOT ALL OF OUR SHIT FROM YOUR PEOPLE!
No I don't eat no damn twix! It's either snickers or m&m's.

This is how your kind is "decimating" the contributions of black folks, when it comes to black folks contributions to the cultural aesthetics of L.A., and you know this, SO WHY FAKE THE FUNK?!!
You just don't make sense, period.

My response:
What comments are you referring to? Are you mixing posts, or are you dealing with this entirely? The simple fact of the matter is, the old school cholos and pachucos I ran across during the mid 70's and some in the 80's, who talked this way, wasn't a mere coincidence. This is how pachucos rolled back in the day, in regards to their speech, which was a combination of standard english, some spanish words, ebonics, black slang and calo, fool-WHAT'S SO STEREOTYPICAL ABOUT THAT???
What are you trying to say? That Mexican Americans want to decimate and destroy the black culture in LA, by having OUR own, being more prevalent, and not giving praise? You are full of sh-it! That's all there is to it. I will say it again, we do our own thing, have our own vibe, our own traditions. I've already said I acknowledge black influence in LA but I also acknowledge Anglo and Asian influence as well. Seems more like envy on your part.
You don't even know what a stereotype really is, and if you do, YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO PROPERLY APPLY THE TERM!
So what you trying to say now? Mexican Americans can't read? Look it up in the dictionary.


What was a damn lie? The old school cholos/pachucos that I've ran across, because if you're saying that my meeting and speaking with these cats is a "DAMN LIE," then you yourself are a DAMN LIE, for you don't know what information I gleaned from these cats, to know for sure, I'm telling a DAMN LIE: DAMN LIAR!

LOL

Anyway, your racist comments are all a damn lie. Chew on that!
I mean, WHAT'S SO #%@&#%@ DIFFICULT ABOUT THAT PROSPECT, DUMBASS-SEEING AS HOW YOUR PEOPLE NOWADAYS, HAVE INCORPORATED BLACK SPEECH, BLACK SLANG WORDS, AND HIP-HOP CULTURE, BY WAY OF RAP MUSIC AND THE LIKE, INTO YOUR DAILY LIVES!
YOUR PEOPLE? More racism from the Real. Categorizing and demeaning the comments of Mexican Americans.

First of all, it is about "denying" the black CULTURAL presence in L.A. And secondly, even that "CHOLO" style, that was codified by your own people-NEEDED SOME ASSISTANCE IN CERTAIN AREAS, FROM OTHER FOLKS, ESPECIALLY HOW YOUR CONTEMPORARY SUR BRETHREN CARRY ON TODAY, WITH ALL THE BLUE GEAR, AND ACTING LIKE CRIPS FROM THE EARLY TO MID 90'S!
What the funk does Joe Blow Mexican American have to do with me and my comments to you? You can't seem to have discussion without being racist. So, I can't take your seriously. You are no different than any deranged kkk member out there.
The way your sur brethren are carrying on today, with the music, much of their speech, their gaits and what not, THE OLD SCHOOL CHOLOS WEREN'T MANIFESTING THIS STYLE BACK IN THE DAY, AND YOU KNOW THIS!
So what you saying? Modern "hip hop" did not steal the cholo style? If I remember right, original hip hop was all about tight clothes, fat laces, rope chains, sweat pants. Besides, gangbanging is nowhere near the level that it was back before '94. Nowadays it's mostly acting anyway.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWW!!!! You really blasted me with a zinger, now did you???

The simple fact of the matter is, I never claimed that chicano culture didn't influence black L.A. street culture, because did I not say in previous posts, probably on this one, that all cultures living in close proximity to one another will bororow off of each other???? Did I not say this??

HOWEVER, I did say that black folks took some cultural expressions from your folks, repackaged and made it their own, by creating unique distinctions in the way they dressed, walked and talked, which was different than what your people produced.
o ok so you do admit that. That's what the original topic is all about. Why you sweating it then?

This is why I appealed to old photos, movies and the like, which are time capsules in how black folks, and mexicans, from back in the day, involved in the street life, were dissimiliar in their styles of dress, compared to your people, and overall representation, despite some similiarities.
The only differences were the hairstyles. Other than that it is simply became known as "West Coast." You know it and I know it.

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Unread post by mnjmc » June 6th, 2007, 6:40 pm

Rollin_inmy_SixFo wrote:
mnjmc wrote:
Rollin_inmy_SixFo wrote:Weren't no tv's or cell phones or computers back in the old times. Make no mistake, the Cholo style, as a finished product, is all Chicano.

Anyway, here's a link, that includes basic history, pics, and facts, as to how it became what it is today.

The First House in the City of LOS.

HAHA. Nothing but pictures of people before their coward ass children called themselves chicano.
Cowards? Your entire familia is cowardly because they RAN over here and had to pay $200 dollars to a coyote to bring your worthlessasss into MY country. That's right, you and your family didn't have the balls nor brains to stay put, so like PUNKS, they packed it in and RAN. 100% BI-TCH! LOL I could imagine you standing in line at the immigration office and begging for a GREEN CARD! Family getting bit-chslapped and degraded the entire time. LOLLOLOLOL
Familia? So your ass wants to start typing in spanish now, shit before your white boy pleasing ass couldn't wait to proudly proclaim you don't know a word of spanish. Or am I mistaken little ass bitch? Like I already said to change a system of government it would require hundred of thousands of lives, gangbanging, especially in East LA nowadays, is nothing compared to it. And again if the people of Mexico would try to change their system of government the US would back the current government, and supply them with weapons. And not just rifles but also helicopters, aircraft, and special forces operatives. It aint no stupid petty gang beef. If you don't believe me look at what happened in Central America and South America. Does it really seem cowardly not to fight in something that would be a suicidal mission, the government having all the back of the US and local damned poor people only having rocks to throw. Of course it is not, it is just being realistic.

But enough of that, you showed your stupidity before by not comprehending that statement, trying to back up your position with idiotic statements like saying that the Russian military was powerful and big. I guess no one told your simple minded self that Russia greatly exaggerated it militaries strength and that the US knew about it. The US military used Russia’s BS against them and used Russia’s own propaganda to build a military power that Russia was know where near close to matching. ONLY THE VERY STUPID AND IGNORANT STILL BELIEVE THE MYTH THAT THE SOVIET UNION ARMY WAS ANYWHERE CLOSE TO THE POWER OF THE UNITED STATES TO EVEN COMPARE THE TWO. Oh this has to with a debate we had earlier between me and Mr. Super Chicano.

Now let correct another myth for you. Blacks never copied cholos. As you already know the pachuco style of dress wasn’t started by chicanos. Neither was the cholo style copied by blacks. Mexicans and blacks pretty much wore the same clothes because they were generally were broke and could only afford the same cheap clothing. And what did they do with that cheap clothes, they tried to make them look like the nice. Crisp and clean ain’t a chicano thing no matter how much you want believe the lies of you homeboys. Lowriders are the only thing you can claim, well maybe. I’m not 100% sure it started in LA.

But let me tell you something that is really COWARDLY, Mexicans kids making up a word to please white boys. Those pathetic little cowards gavin in to teasing. Teasing was what made the first people call themselves chicano. No body put a gun to their heads and made them use another word to call themselves, it was just simple teasing. Teasing made chicanos backstab their parents history and pride. Have you ever herd of something so pathetic as these chicanos? I know, pretty sad. But check it out though, those same chicanos try to change history and make believe the chicano word had something to do with pride instead of shame.

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Unread post by Old Shatterhand » June 6th, 2007, 9:12 pm

Well you best get used to it because they represent 14% of the United States population now and 1 of every 2 births are Latino in this country. Do the math.

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Unread post by Rollin_inmy_SixFo » June 6th, 2007, 9:21 pm

mnjmc wrote:
[/quote wrote:
Familia? So your ass wants to start typing in spanish now, shit before your white boy pleasing ass couldn't wait to proudly proclaim you don't know a word of spanish. Or am I mistaken little ass bitch? Like I already said to change a system of government it would require hundred of thousands of lives, gangbanging, especially in East LA nowadays, is nothing compared to it. And again if the people of Mexico would try to change their system of government the US would back the current government, and supply them with weapons. And not just rifles but also helicopters, aircraft, and special forces operatives. It aint no stupid petty gang beef. If you don't believe me look at what happened in Central America and South America. Does it really seem cowardly not to fight in something that would be a suicidal mission, the government having all the back of the US and local damned poor people only having rocks to throw. Of course it is not, it is just being realistic.
You seem to have resentment towards "whiteboys." In case you forgot, Spanish is a whiteboy language and you almost died sneaking into a whiteboy country. I guess the whiteboy school system you're in isn't even enough to teach you any common sense.

I don't care what your excuses are for wanting a GREEN CARD. The truth is, your own government and people RAN you out of your own country! Instead of hanging in there like other Mexicans, your family punked out. So don't try to play SUPER IMMIGRANT with me. All I see is 100% BI-TCH.
But enough of that, you showed your stupidity before by not comprehending that statement, trying to back up your position with idiotic statements like saying that the Russian military was powerful and big. I guess no one told your simple minded self that Russia greatly exaggerated it militaries strength and that the US knew about it. The US military used Russia’s BS against them and used Russia’s own propaganda to build a military power that Russia was know where near close to matching. ONLY THE VERY STUPID AND IGNORANT STILL BELIEVE THE MYTH THAT THE SOVIET UNION ARMY WAS ANYWHERE CLOSE TO THE POWER OF THE UNITED STATES TO EVEN COMPARE THE TWO. Oh this has to with a debate we had earlier between me and Mr. Super Chicano.
Where did you get that classified info? The Daily Tamale?
Now let correct another myth for you. Blacks never copied cholos. As you already know the pachuco style of dress wasn’t started by chicanos. Neither was the cholo style copied by blacks. Mexicans and blacks pretty much wore the same clothes because they were generally were broke and could only afford the same cheap clothing. And what did they do with that cheap clothes, they tried to make them look like the nice. Crisp and clean ain’t a chicano thing no matter how much you want believe the lies of you homeboys. Lowriders are the only thing you can claim, well maybe. I’m not 100% sure it started in LA.
Where's the proof? The only thing immigrants are known for is wearing funky looking clothes with funk all over their backs. Where do you think the damn red***** got the name wet*****? Keep it real. I don't want to hear any of your chunti fairytales. Most Americans, including blacks, don't even like Mexicans from Mexico. We didn't have any problems until all the immigrants started showing up, running loose, disrespecting everybody, and breeding. People don't want your assss here and Chicanos end up catching all the heat for things you guys do. Now that's real!
But let me tell you something that is really COWARDLY, Mexicans kids making up a word to please white boys. Those pathetic little cowards gavin in to teasing. Teasing was what made the first people call themselves chicano. No body put a gun to their heads and made them use another word to call themselves, it was just simple teasing. Teasing made chicanos backstab their parents history and pride. Have you ever herd of something so pathetic as these chicanos? I know, pretty sad. But check it out though, those same chicanos try to change history and make believe the chicano word had something to do with pride instead of shame.
Chuntarro, you need to put down your jealous, corrupt, bottom feeding ways before you get deported. They didn't work for you in your country and they damn sure won't work here. LA is flooded with immigrants like you who stand on street corners like tramps, begging for chump change, walking around with 10 kids, or riding bikes as a main source of transportation. It's not cool for adults to be in those situations. Just letting you know because I know you haven't been in my country long enough to understand.

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Unread post by mnjmc » June 7th, 2007, 4:51 am

You seem to have resentment towards "whiteboys." In case you forgot, Spanish is a whiteboy language and you almost died sneaking into a whiteboy country. I guess the whiteboy school system you're in isn't even enough to teach you any common sense.

I have no resentment towards white boys, only the chicanos that go out of their way to please them. It’s is because chicanos are known for being proud of not knowing spanish, or try to hide it if they do. Which is why they always eagerly tell a whiteboy they don’t know the language. I mean chicanos are PROUD of it. I still don’t understand how people can be proud of not knowing something.

Yes I know spanish is from Spain, but white boys, by which I mean American whites, seem get offended when a brown faces speaks it. Chicanos not wanting to dare offend them quickly let them know they don’t speak a language that offends them. Like their little bitches.

I don't care what your excuses are for wanting a GREEN CARD. The truth is, your own government and people RAN you out of your own country! Instead of hanging in there like other Mexicans, your family punked out. So don't try to play SUPER IMMIGRANT with me.

Green card? Homeboy I’m a citizen, call me Super Anchor Baby. Hell so are my parents, Reagan Amnesty. My parents didn’t get ran out of anywhere, they just knew they could make more money here. And not every part of Mexico gets hit the same by its corruption and selling out to super power to the north. Most of the immigration in my parents time was from a few typical states, having half of its population migrated. In some parts on Mexico the situation was more desperate than others. So it came down to keeping on living that miserable life or do something about it. Since armed conflict is suicidal, immigration was the next best thing. Hell having the millions leaving made life easier for those at the home land, do I even have to explain that to an idiot like you why that might be? What am I talking about? Of course I do, but not today.

Like I said before protesting and organizing movements to improve their lives don’t work in Mexico because the government will get the federal police to kill the organizers and slaughter the protesters, in those days anyways.

But how can Mexicans that came to United States to improve their lives in my parents era of immigration, which they generally did improve their lives. Why didn’t Mexicans just rap themselves around the USA flag and just call themselves American. The answer is a brown face got really treated like shit in those days. And we would damned if we dick ride America while its people spit on our faces and treat us like second class citizens and just take all that with a smiley face and say thank you. We aint chicanos.

All I see is 100% BI-TCH.

Then stop looking in the mirror. Please homeboy has your bravery ever been tested? I know you claim one of those old ass ELA hoods, but ELA has been quite for a long time already. It’s been one of the safest spots in Los Angeles for a good while. Probably the last time it got serious out there you where in diapers, I don’t know your age. So tell me what is the extraordinary brave thing that chicanos have done to even begin to call someone a bitch. That’s right homeboy not a damn thing.

But enough of that, you showed your stupidity before by not comprehending that statement, trying to back up your position with idiotic statements like saying that the Russian military was powerful and big. I guess no one told your simple minded self that Russia greatly exaggerated it militaries strength and that the US knew about it. The US military used Russia’s BS against them and used Russia’s own propaganda to build a military power that Russia was know where near close to matching. ONLY THE VERY STUPID AND IGNORANT STILL BELIEVE THE MYTH THAT THE SOVIET UNION ARMY WAS ANYWHERE CLOSE TO THE POWER OF THE UNITED STATES TO EVEN COMPARE THE TWO. Oh this has to with a debate we had earlier between me and Mr. Super Chicano.

Where did you get that classified info? The Daily Tamale?


They are called books retard try picking one up and reading it. When the US finally got satellites in the air to spy on the Soviet Union it found out that they were putting a big front that was all BS. If you don’t believe me then look it up and learn real history. You need to stop filling your mind make believe chicano and cholo history that is false. It's not classified info but it was. It should be common knowledge but some morons seem to be more interested in fake chicano history.

Now let correct another myth for you. Blacks never copied cholos. As you already know the pachuco style of dress wasn’t started by chicanos. Neither was the cholo style copied by blacks. Mexicans and blacks pretty much wore the same clothes because they were generally were broke and could only afford the same cheap clothing. And what did they do with that cheap clothes, they tried to make them look like the nice. Crisp and clean ain’t a chicano thing no matter how much you want believe the lies of you homeboys. Lowriders are the only thing you can claim, well maybe. I’m not 100% sure it started in LA.

Where's the proof? The only thing immigrants are known for is wearing funky looking clothes with funk all over their backs. Where do you think the damn red***** got the name wet*****? Keep it real. I don't want to hear any of your chunti fairytales. Most Americans, including blacks, don't even like Mexicans from Mexico.

Keep it real? That’s real? Gee I guess Chicano ass cholos are influenced in their way of speech by blacks after all, right moron. You want proof then right? Can you even provide proof to the contrary? No didn’t think so, all you got is lies from your older homeboys. Look at pictures of old black gangs in not just LA but the whole US you will see. Sorry to expose all the lies of your dumb homeboys. But don’t be too sad the lowrider might still hold out. Chicanos didn’t start shit just admitted. They are just clothes they don’t mean much anyway.

I give a mad fuck if other Americans want us hear or not. They could hate us twice as much as they do know I could care less. We are not the chicanos out to please your white gods homeboy. Matter of fact I want you to be more upset, because your ass can’t do shit about it.

And why do you talk shit about chunties and still post pictures or links to the pictures of them. All of those Placita pictures are nothing but Mexican ass chunties idiot. They the REAL history of LA not coward ass chicanos. There are no chunti fairytales just Chicano fairytales of starting trends.

The word wetback was brought about Mexicans crossing the Rio Grande. They would get wet when they crossed. Get it. So the backs of Mexicans are funky huh? Then get off his back you nasty ass faggot.

[b]We didn't have any problems until all the immigrants started showing up, running loose, disrespecting everybody, and breeding. People don't want your assss here and Chicanos end up catching all the heat for things you guys do. Now that's real! [/b]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Fuck I’m going to save this brain dead statement. Yeah right retard the Chicanos, Whites, and Blacks lived happily ever after before the Mexicans immigrants showed up. You can not be that stupid are you? Damn, for me to correct that statement would take 40 pages, and that will be just to make fun of you. That white boy dick must be deep in your mouth bitch to type that statement. I don’t even have to tell you that is BS do I? Does the Civil Rights movement and 1992 riots ring a bell. I don’t care what you think those “No Mexicans No Dogs Allowed” signs met you dumb ass chicanos also.

But let me tell you something that is really COWARDLY, Mexicans kids making up a word to please white boys. Those pathetic little cowards gavin in to teasing. Teasing was what made the first people call themselves chicano. No body put a gun to their heads and made them use another word to call themselves, it was just simple teasing. Teasing made chicanos backstab their parents history and pride. Have you ever herd of something so pathetic as these chicanos? I know, pretty sad. But check it out though, those same chicanos try to change history and make believe the chicano word had something to do with pride instead of shame

Chuntarro, you need to put down your jealous, corrupt, bottom feeding ways before you get deported. They didn't work for you in your country and they damn sure won't work here. LA is flooded with immigrants like you who stand on street corners like tramps, begging for chump change, walking around with 10 kids, or riding bikes as a main source of transportation. It's not cool for adults to be in those situations. Just letting you know because I know you haven't been in my country long enough to understand

Again jealous of what, you are from ELA not Beverly Hills. I go to ELA just to remind myself how much worse Compton could look like. Hell when someone asks how Mexico looks we just tell them go to ELA and you get a very good idea. You type like you live in some upscale area, ELA is like downtown with dirt. Bottom feeding is ELA. Told you I’m a citizen I can’t get deported. .LOL. Come on now Mexicans are the last people you would see begging for change. They might sell you oranges but they don’t beg for shit. You would see a white guy beg for change before you would see a Mexican do it. You know those white guys with those signs claiming they are a Vietnam veteran. I have only seen kids and those Eco types use bikes as their main source of transportation. Damn ELA most be really fucked up if you see all that, I’m sorry you live in such poor ass ghettos such as ELA. LOL. I’ll take Compton over ELA any fucking day of the week. NOW THAT’S REAL. HAHA.

But for real homeboy you think being some cholo from the same hood my great grandfather was from, is something to be proud of? It is conformity in its most idiotic form. A conformity that used kill its own people. I guess the only good about is that they could some day be low paid Rent A Cholo for some movie or video. Sad to me. And you call that pride. Bitch please, tell you grandmother it is time to shave her eyebrows already.

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Unread post by Noog » June 7th, 2007, 5:01 am

Very interesting thread here......just to add my penny's worth....from here these side of the Atlantic, it has always looked as if Mexicans started gang styles/bandanas/tats and that those things influenced black street culture soon after - thats the way its seen at least. And then later, that hiphop swallowed all and that the influence moved the other way around, where black culture was borrowed from......thing is is a mix up mash up thing...seems a specific form of gang culture arose in LA, unique in the world....and now its getting a global fucccin franchise out of it. LA peeps should've taken out copyright seen!

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Unread post by TheReal » June 7th, 2007, 10:18 am

I said:
TheReal wrote:
I said:No one's talking as if mexicans just dropped off of the turnip truck in L.A. HOWEVER, you must admit, that many of your own people are trying to excise, excoriate and decimate, the cultural contributions of black folks in L.A., and posssibly around the country. This is done by many of your own people who claim that black folks stole all of their shit from mexicans, and that black folks try to act like mexicans, etc.



Whereas he said:

WHO are you talking about?

My response:

I’m talking about mexicans fool, who the fuck do you think I’m talking about? Are you going to deny that mexicans like yourself, or at least other mexicans that you may know, are always whining and haranguing on black folks, in regards to us having no culture, and that all of our street culture, even that culture which sprang from the east coast, Midwest and south, CAME FROM MEXICANS! All of this is said, despite the fact that in those geographical areas, and even before the advent of before hip-hop-THERE WASN’T A SIGNIFICANT MEXICAN POPULATION OR PRESENCE, TO SPEAK OF!

So again fool, you know who the fuck I’m referring to!

He said:

Do you have lists of specific people who are doing these things? You speak of us as a single group of people who are coelescing and conspiring amongst each other. Like we all know each other or are related. ? If you can't provide lists of people who are doing those things then that blows up the rest of your argument.

My response:

Dumbass be for real, who the fuck do you think you’re dealing with, with your childish and amateurish tactics! Do I have a list of specific folks? Well let me ask you this question asshole, ARE YOU GOING TO TELL ME THAT YOU NEVER HEARD MEXICANS/CHICANOS CLAIM THE ABOVE????? HUH??? Is this is what you’re claiming??

Devil, you know damn well that you know mexicans, and have heard mexicans, in your lifetime, that have said that black folks have no culture, and that all we have, especially as it relates to street culture, came from mexicans, and you fucking know this bitch, so you tell me? WHAT ARE THE NAMES OF THE MEXICAN FOOLS THAT HAVE TOLD YOU THESE LIES?? Do you have a list of their names??

What? You want me to be a damn snitch and reveal the sources that I’ve come across in real life, as well as cyberspace, that put forth this shit? Man you are truly are a scum slug crawling muthafucka!

Truth be told, you think you’re slick, asking me such a bitchmade question like that, thinking that it was a potent form of argumentation, whereas you and I know, that you wouldn’t have required the same criterion, from anyone else-INCLUDING YOURSELF!

Just like a devil…

He said:

I don't want to hear about prison politics because those gangs don't run entire ethnicities. So if you can't do that then your argument is pretty much fu-cked. Nothing more than paranoia, suspicion, and ignorance.

My response:

Prison politics?????? The fact that your people claim that black folks have no culture, no soul, and that we borrowed everything from your people, in regards to street culture; or that white folks gratuitously imbued black folks with special favors that should’ve gone to your people, because of the fact that this is your land, and the fact that black folks don’t belong here, etc.-WHICH AIN’T GOT SHIT TO DO WITH PRISON POLITICS FOOL!! THIS IS HOW A CORE OF YOUR PEOPLE ALREADY FEEL, IN REGARDS TO CERTAIN ISSUES RELATING TO BLACK FOLKS, WHETHER THEY’VE BEEN LOCKED UP, GANG AFFILIATED, OR NOT-AND YOU KNOW THIS!!

So again devil-WHY FAKE THE FUNK?

I said:

Quote:
Hell, many of your people claim that back in the day (20's, 30's, 40's, etc.), black folks had no culture, because we were too busy being preoccupied with living on plantations as slaves-this is what your boy Chino Grande said. So if anything, your people are the worst offenders, when it comes to your intentional misconceptions about black folks, and the cultural inputs.


Whereas he said:

Your people? Doesn't that sound RACIST to everybody? If somebody else came at you saying "YOUR PEOPLE" this "YOUR PEOPLE" that, anybody would automatically be labeled RACIST. To me, that is no different than some Klan member talking to me. So I am about to put you into that category and dismiss your entire argument somebody who doesn't have all of his faculties together. As somebody who aint right.

My response:

Fuck yeah I say “YOUR PEOPLE” fool, because mexicans are YOUR PEOPLE!! Fuck! They’re not MY PEOPLE!! And hell no bitch, I’m not a sensitive, miss nancyish, bitchmade fool like you, to where I would instantly get offended over a remark such as “YOUR PEOPLE,” if you were referring to black folks. So to claim that I would be automatically sensitive over such an expression, or to imply that black folks would become extremely sensitive over such an expression-JUST SHOWS HOW RACIST YOU ARE!!

Why? Because simpleton muthafuckas like you are using arguments that you heard white folks use before against black folks, in regards to a supposed “reverse discrimination” double standard type of BS that black folks utilize, whereby YOUR PEOPLE are always trying to unleash that shit upon us!

Hell, I’ve even heard YOUR PEOPLE complain and rail against black folks back in the day, simply because we had BET, whereas mexicans had Telemundo and Univision, but like the white supremacists many of your people are, you have to attach yourselves onto arguments and claims that are put forth by white folks, in order to justify much (not all) of your hatred towards black folks.

Then again, this devil has the nerves talking shit with me, seeing as how this fool, if he were locked up, would instantly ally himself with white supremacist muthafuckas, yet this bitch calls me a RACIST????

Man, the fucking nerves of you devil!

NEXT!!!

He said:

Hold on for a minute. What the funk does Chino Grande have to do with me? If you hadn't mentioned him, I would never have heard about him.

My response:

Man, again, who the fuck do you think you’re dealing with???? You damn well know who CHINO GRANDE IS FOOL!!! So stop trying to feign ignorance, so as to try and prove a point.
Hell! YOU AND I GOT INTO A KNOCK DOWN, DRAG OUT ARGUMENT OVER ON ANOTHER THREAD, OVER THIS RACIST SON OF A BITCH, FOOL, BUT NOW YOU’RE CLAIMING IGNORANCE OF THIS, DEVIL??

Look inept sucker paul devil, arguing with me, and going back and forth me, is much more than matching me point for point, on a decibel level. Oh naw bitch, when you come at me with your BS-YOU HAVE TO COME CORRECT, BECAUSE I WILL GO UNDER EVERY NOOK AND CRANNY TO EXPOSE YOUR SOPHIST BS AND FALSE OUTRAGE, ONCE YOU PRESENT IT TO ME!

Consider that a fair warning, for our future polemics.

NEXT!

He said:

Worst offenders?

My response:

Did I stutter?

He said:

Don't be a hypocrite.

My response:

How am I being a hypocrite, and how does one being a hypocrite, fit into the above statement of mine that you quoted. Furthermore fool-DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT A HYPOCRITE IS, OR ITS DEFINITION???

He said:

Man up and accept the fact that there are some who do and some who don't.

My response:

No devil, what you ought to do is man up and admit that there are MANY mexicans that do indeed spew the spurious history that black folks have no culture, have nothing to do with contributing to L.A. street culture, and that everything black folks have in regards to L.A. street culture-CAME FROM MEXICANS!!!

So again bitch-YOU MAN UP, AND ADMIT THAT SHIT!

NEXT!

I said:

Quote:

And the funny thing about all of this is-you know you've heard all this before, and so have I, from mexicans, to where many of your people are trying to intimidate, and have successfully bullied and intimidated, plenty of black folks in L.A., with these spurious revisionist histories.


Whereas he can only say:

You sound crazy. Ain't nothing wrong with bringing up history. Some of us go back centuries and beyond here in the southwest. We have deep history here and if you don't like it, too bad.

My response:

Bitch, now what the fuck are you talking about??? I’m not talking about Mexican history, in regards to SOME of your people being on this land for “centuries,” to where I would have to be bullied and intimidated into accepting that shit. Rather, I’M TALKING ABOUT THE FACT THAT YOU MEXICANS CLAIM THAT BLACK FOLKS DON’T HAVE A HISTORY, A CULTURE, AND THAT EVERYTHING THAT BLACK FOLKS CONTRIBUTED TO L.A. CULTURAL HISTORY, THEY GOT THAT SHIT FROM MEXICANS!

This is what the fuck I’m talking about bitch, not that other BS drivel you’re inserting, so as to stray from the topic at hand.

What you’ve just committed was a “circle jerky”, to the point that your ass must be seriously CRAZY, if you thought that shit was going to fly by yours truly.

Then again, just like a devil, always thinking that someone can’t catch their BS, thus knocking it out of the park.

NEXT!

I said:

Quote:

Again, no one is denying the mexican presence in L.A., and their cultural impact, per se, but I damn sure know that your people is downright lying on my people, with the implication, and outright stating, that black folks have no culture, and that all of their street culture in L.A. was taken from mexicans, WHICH IS A DAMN LIE!

He said:

There you go with the racist commentary: "YOUR PEOPLE."

My response:

Look bitch, the racist, ill-boding, pernicious muthafuckas who are always trying to ruin black folks self-esteem about themselves, by constantly claiming that we have no culture, and that we never contributed anything to the cultural aesthetics of L.A., even the damn street culture-ARE YOUR PEOPLE FOOL!! Yes, muthafuckas who look like YOU, who are no worse than white folks with that shit!!

YEAH DEVIL, YOU, AND YOUR PEOPLE, DO THIS SHIT TO BLACK FOLKS AND YOU DAMN WELL KNOW THIS!!! You muthafuckas say this in cyberspace, in real life and any venue that will allow YOUR PEOPLE a platform!!

What muthafucka-YOU THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO BACK DOWN FROM THAT SHIT, SERPENT ASS TRICK??? Well guess what-YOU THOUGHT WROOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG!

NEXT!!!

He said:

Who are you talking about? You keep saying YOUR PEOPLE YOUP PEOPLE YOUR PEOPLE.

My response:

Who the fuck you think I’m talking about, broken record son of a bitch? READ THE ABOVE READ THE ABOVE!

He said:

Maybe it's just your subconscious talking to you or something?

My response:

My subconscious??? What fool, are you telling me that my subconscious is telling me that black folks have no culture, and that we got all of our shit from your people, because deep down you think that I feel that it is really the truth, any way you split it, simply because you yourself THINK IT’S TRUE??????? Hmmmmmmmm? You just revealed something here, but yet you will piss in your pants, and hit your head up against the wall, so as to deny that your people don’t truly believe the things that I am accusing them of, only for you to imply and internalize what they (YOUR PEOPLE) believe, as being the truth (which is something you truly hold to yourself, at the core, at your subconscious)-by claiming that it is coming from within me.

This is how you mask your own beliefs, regarding how you truly feel about black folks, and what we supposedly don’t have, and didn’t contribute. This is another reason why I say “YOUR PEOPLE”, because this is what you and YOUR PEOPLE, truly believe.
What it is, speaking of myself, and my subconscious-I feel at the core that all those accusations that YOUR PEOPLE constantly throw at my people, are a bunch of lies, and that there is more to the story, than what YOUR PEOPLE is putting forth to the world, which are merely truths, mixed with half-truths, mixed with lies and DAMN LIES!!!
I have to give it to you-you are a slick devil!

NEXT!

He said:

So what if blacks were influenced by the cholo style? What's wrong with that? You act like Mexican Americans are beneath creating anything that appeals to others? Just accept the fact that we do our thing and sometimes it's fly. Give credit where credit is due.

My response:

Again devil, how many times do I have to repeat myself over, and over again??????? If you or anyone else on this thread, would’ve honestly, with unbiased lenses, read anything of what I said in this regard, concerning black folks being influenced by aspects of chicano/cholos, you would’ve seen that I ADMITTED TO THIS ALREADY, YOU DUMB FUNKY, IGNORANT, RACIST, SON OF A BITCH!!!!

Did I, or did I not say this previously?????????????

FUCK YEAH I DID!!!

HOWEVER, what your racist ass got all disheveled about, was the fact that I also inserted aspects of black culture that Mexican/cholos were influenced by, when it came to aspects of black culture in general, and black L.A. codified culture in particular!!!
But you see, you didn’t like that shit, admitting that eses were influenced by anything black folks had to put out there, because it is truly YOUR PEOPLE, along with yourself, who feel that black folks are sooooooooooooooooooooooooo beneath them, and are inferior to them, to where admitting that eses had gotten anything from black folks-WOULD BE SACRILEGIOUS!!!!!

Naw devil, you see and hear, what the fuck you want to see and hear-BECAUSE OF YOUR OWN RACISM, whereas you’re trying to pass your racist and bigoted pathologies that you hold for black folks, off onto me, in regards to how I view mexicans in this area-BUT THE SHIT AIN’T GOING TO WORK!

I have more to say on this, further on down the page.

With that said, NEXT!!

I said:

Quote:

He said:

You do that all the time on this board, to justify your racism against Mexicans Americans.

You still haven't proven the falsity in my claims. All I hear you doing now is whining like a little bitch!

Whereas he can only say:

You're the one who is whining about supposedly being decimated.

My response:

No fool, I’m highlighting how you’re whining like a bitch, in that you’re claiming that I don’t give mexicans credit for shit, or that I have a problem in doing so, whereas in reality, it is you, and YOUR PEOPLE, who truly have the problem, when it comes to dealing with the cultural contributions that black folks have made on the L.A. street scene, and in the lives of mexicans/chicanos in general!

So yeah devil, it is you, who’s truly whining like a little bitch, and the only one between us, who is truly capable of doing so!

NEXT!!

I said:

Quote:
You see, your people can still want to decimate and diminish the importance or impact of black cultural influences, even if you are heavily influenced by them. In other words, I'm talking about the acts that comes from scoundrels, and the fact that many of your own people will say that blacks have no culture, and that we took all of our street culture from your people, while it is very apparent that your people took droves of cultural shit from my people, which is what makes mexicans who think this way (black folks have no culture; black folks took all of their culture from mexicans), and preach this foolishness-SOUL PATROLLERS AND CULTURAL BANDITS!


Whereas he said:

You keep saying "YOUR PEOPLE."

My response:

So what? YOU’RE NOT MEXICAN??

He said:

You are probably one of the most racist posters ever on this board and probably a worse HYPOCRITE.

My response:

Bitch fuck you and go to hell, with your demagogic and sophist attacks, seeing as how you can’t even prove how I am a HYPOCRITE!! Truth be told devil, and much to your chagrin, I mean what the fuck I say, and say what the fuck I mean. And nothing I say is racist, but racialistic, but if you think it’s racist, or that I am the most racist poster on this site-THEN SO FUCKING BE IT!!

Lord knows that I’m not as racist as your sureno brethren, and their sur sympathizers, who believe in the total annihilation of the black community. Oh no devil, this is how again, YOUR PEOPLE operate, and so fuck what you see on this board coming from me, for what I’m saying about your sur brethren, sur sympathizers, and many of those in the Mexican community who hate them some black folks, was and is THE TRUTH!!

Am I calling for the genocide and annihilation of your people, just because they are Mexican? HEEEEEELLLLL NO! But guess what? You know some mexicans, and have heard of some mexicans, who are actively engaged in such an agenda, when it comes to black folks, AIN’T THAT RIGHT???

So in other words, stop comparing me to the worst of YOUR PEOPLE!!

NEXT!

He said:

The African American culture is heavily rooted in Anglo Saxon culture but I don't see you giving praise (or do you) to the white people on this board everytime they're in the room.

My response:

Likewise, Mexican culture is deeply rooted in SPANISH/EUROPEAN culture fool!!! What? You thought your folks were culturally pure??????? YOUR PEOPLE don’t practice pure indigenous culture fool, which is apparent in traditional Mexican music (which was influenced greatly by Spanish, german and even African influences, now that you’re bullshitting); the way you folks dress in mexico; the vaquero; the language; the religion; etc.!!!! But yet you want to tag black folks with the European tag!!!

Hell, truth be told, now that I think about it, I HARDLY EVER HEAR YOUR PEOPLE GIVING SPANISH FOLKS THEIR PROPS FOR DELUGING YOU WITH MUCH OF THE FOUNDATIONAL CULTURE YOUR PEOPLE HAVE, IF YOU REALLY WANT TO TAKE IT THERE!!

The real truth of the matter is, the indigenous of this land, and the Africans that were brought over to this land, had much of their culture stripped from them (especially Africans in North America), and/or they were oriented and colonized into the cultures of their captors-the Europeans.

As a result, aspects of European culture began to saturate the cultural ethos of the indigenous and the African, to where the religion, the language, and other cultural traditions, primarily based in religious beliefs, began to take hold of those African and indigenous cultures, without quite usurping that genetic memory, that DNA, that provided these two groups the power to go from within their genetic make up, and produce distinct cultural traditions, that weren’t even present in the European traditions.

In other words, when black folks created jazz, blues, r&b, rock and roll (the early stuff), rap/hip-hop, ragtime, gospel, etc.-one can say that European music greatly influenced them, but, one can also say that these musical art forms wouldn’t have come into existence without black folks originating these artforms, by inserting their own “soul” that they retrieved from deep within their African soul, into the European cultural milieu that they were exposed to.
The same thing goes for the indigenous in Mexico, but right now I’m not talking about YOUR PEOPLE, but rather, I’M DEFENDING MY PEOPLE!!

So later for your attacks on my people, concerning anglo saxon culture, because admittedly, even by white sociologists, musicologist, culturalists, and the like-despite similarities on the surface, THERE ARE SOME CULTURAL DIFFERENCES, ONCE YOU SCRATCH THE SURFACE!!

NEXT!!!

He said:

Doesn't that make you a cultural bandit? I don't care if it was in the past forced on you or not, you have the option today to do what you want to do.

My response:

No devil, that doesn’t make us a cultural bandit, because yes, IT WAS FORCED UPON US, and two, WHAT WAS FORCED UPON US, WE TOOK, AND TRANSFORMED IT INTO A DISTINCT AFRICAN AMERICAN CULTURE THAT IS OUR OWN: which is something we ought not, or should not, be ashamed of, even though your people would like for us to be ashamed!
This is why you and YOUR PEOPLE constantly harp on the fact that black folks have no culture, and that we’re just blank slates, who haven’t contributed anything to the cultural ethos and aesthetics of this country, because your folks justification lies in the fact that we are inferior, and mere slaves, who got everything culturally-FROM OTHER FOLKS INCLUDING YOUR OWN!!

And for you to even bring this tired and retread argument my way, just bear out the truth of what I’m saying about how you truly feel, and the way YOUR PEOPLE feel (black folks have no culture), which is something you can’t deny!

NEXT!!!

He said:

Yes, I've said it before, there have been a few words that Mexican Americans have borrowed from black slang but the cholo style is overwhelmingly unique.

My response:

And I’ll also say that the mexicans borrowed not only slang, but certain hand shake significations, the baggy style of dress from black folks, beginning in the late 20’s, 30’s, and 40’s (and all this shit about black folks being foreign to baggy clothing, by pointing out the decades of the 70’s and early 80’s, and the fashion trends that were in existence during those times, I will deal with further on down this post), certain gaits (walks), the music, gestures and mannerisms, etc-MEXICANS GOT FROM BLACK FOLKS, TO CREATE THIS UNIQUE CHOLO STYLE!

You see, you’re confusing, the fact that folks borrowing certain elements from various cultural sources, hence creating a cultural milieu that wasn’t in existence previously, disallows any notion that that which was created wasn’t unique, WHICH IS BS!!!
Almost everything culturally that was created in this country, amongst a melting pot, or tossed salad of folks, is bound to borrow from many different elements, or a primary element, in order to repackage it, and make it unique-ESPECIALLY, AGAIN, IF YOU LIVE IN A COUNTRY, WITH MULTIPLE CULTURES AND RACES!!!

The problem is, again, YOUR PEOPLE, don’t want to give black folks the credit that they’ve had upon Mexican/chicano culture (neither do you want to give credit what we created that was unique and distinct, despite elements of it being borrowed from other cultural sources), even to this present day, the same way you want black folks to admit to having chicano influence, on certain aspects of their culture, because it will insult your notion of racial pride, to admit to having received anything (outside of language)-from the lowly MAYATE SAVAGE!

Remember, this is how you, and YOUR PEOPLE roll!

I can say more on this, and will say more on this, further on down the thread, but with that
said-NEXT!

I said:

Quote:
Why? Because they arrogate from another culture (black folks culture), but yet don't want to claim that they were ever influenced, or inspired by that culture (black), only to turn around and claim that the culture they borrowed from (black), borrowed all of their shit from them, INCLUDING THE THINGS THAT THEY BORROWED FROM THAT CULTURE!!

Whereas he can only say:

That's a hypocritical statement.

My response:

How so?

Whereas he can only say, again:

Shouldn't you be praising the white man right about now?

My response:

Oh, you mean the way you ought to be praising white Spaniards and the culture they gave you, MIXED BREED?

Again, you are a supreme hypocrite, the way you accuse me of being a racist, simply because I highlight the truth in how you and YOUR PEOPLE think, and feel, in regards to black folks not having a culture, which is evident in how you keep throwing the white man in my face-suggesting that without white folks, black folks wouldn’t be anything culturally!
Is this what you’re saying??

Because if you are truly saying this, then I can turn around say that without the Spanish, you and YOUR PEOPLE wouldn’t have the culture you have nowadays, the language you speak, much of the traditions you hold, etc.

And if you want to take it there, cholo dress may have been codified by chicanos, BUT YOU GUYS WEREN’T THE FIRST TO WEAR THESE TYPES OF CLOTHING, NOR ARE YOU THE ONLY ONES!! Black men and white men, and whoever, whether they lived throughout the west coast, east coast, down south, or Midwest, who worked in factories, and performed blue collar labor type work, all wore dickies, khakis, Pendleton shirts, etc.-THEY DIDN’T GET THAT SHIT FROM MEXICANS, FOOL!

Hell, mexicans weren’t even the ones who even created this style of clothing-THE WHITE MAN DID!! Not YOUR PEOPLE fool, not even the Spanish-SO FUCK YOU AND YOUR ATTACKS UPON BLACK FOLKS, AND WHAT THEY GOT FROM WHITE FOLKS, SEEING AS HOW YOUR MESTIZO ASS AIN’T CULTURALLY PURE YOUR DAMN SELF!

Not only that, the pinched collar wasn’t even started by your folks, seeing as how I have an
album cover and old photos, that I will happily to post up (if someone can teach me how to do so), of black folks working in the field, wearing either prison uniforms, or work shirts, with pinched collars, going all the way back to the early part of the 20th century, waaaaaay before cholo culture even came into existence!

So devil, CHECK YOURSELF, IF YOU WANT TO GO DOWN THIS ROAD WITH YOURS TRULY!!! You’re not dealing with an average rank and file muthafucka here, who will get bullied and intimidated by the spurious and sophist arguments you throw out.
Because you see, unlike the folks you may be use to dealing with, in me; you’re not dealing with a BOMB-THROWER only, BUT A THINKER AS WELL!!

NEXT!

I said:

Quote:
It sounds confusing, right? Well, in the mist of that confusion, lies the dilemma, that is betwixt the discussions that are put forth, by your people, who will go over land and sea, by way of cyberspace, as well as other outlets, and claim that black folks have no culture, and that we never really produced any culture, let alone L.A. street culture, AND THAT WE GOT ALL OF OUR SHIT FROM YOUR PEOPLE!

Whereas he can only say, because of him being confused by logic and abstract thought:

No I don't eat no damn twix! It's either snickers or m&m's.

My response:

I once knew a little bitch that liked those candy bars…

Notwithstanding, if that’s all you can glean from my above post, in regards to understanding what was written, then you really are a DUMBASS ONE TRICK PONY, WITH AN INTELLECT THE SIZE OF A GNAT’S BRAIN!

But I digress-NEXT!!

I said:

Quote:
This is how your kind is "decimating" the contributions of black folks, when it comes to black folks contributions to the cultural aesthetics of L.A., and you know this, SO WHY FAKE THE FUNK?!!

Whereas he can only say at this juncture:

You just don't make sense, period.

My response:

I guess that’s your way of saying that I’m right, but in order to save face, you have to claim that what I’m saying is illogical, seeing as how it contained so much logic, to where you can’t penetrate the argument, outside of an illogical response.

Oh I see…

NEXT!

I said:

Quote:
What comments are you referring to? Are you mixing posts, or are you dealing with this entirely? The simple fact of the matter is, the old school cholos and pachucos I ran across during the mid 70's and some in the 80's, who talked this way, wasn't a mere coincidence. This is how pachucos rolled back in the day, in regards to their speech, which was a combination of standard english, some spanish words, ebonics, black slang and calo, fool-WHAT'S SO STEREOTYPICAL ABOUT THAT???

Whereas he said:

What are you trying to say?

My response:

What I’ve said, DEVIL!

He said:

That Mexican Americans want to decimate and destroy the black culture in LA, by having OUR own, being more prevalent, and not giving praise?

My response:

First of all, where did you even glean that sentiment, from the above quote of mine???? If anything, I think you just betrayed how you really feel on the matter, in regards to being prevalent, etc.

In other words, you mistake having numbers, with being more prevalent, or for that matter, with being the sole harbingers, and originators, of all of the culture your sureno brethren presently abide by, much of which was influenced by crip culture of the 80’s, as well as early to mid, and even late 90’s-including the music you listen to and perform, the way many of you talk, the words you use, verbal and facial expressions, along with sundry gestures and mannerisms, which you all took from black cultural expressions in L.A.

But I think what you, and your people do, is try to lie and deceive folks into thinking that just because your people are in the majority presently, that what folks see your people do, in regard to certain cultural nuances in the present day, is the culture your people have always put forth, when the reality is much different.

Again, the culture of modern day surs, is nothing more than a throwback and imitation, of black crip culture from the 80’s and 90’s, when black folks were in the majority back in the day, all the way down to the music your folks listen to, and perform (hip hop/rap music).
And truth be told, you, and old heads reading my words-KNOW I’M TELLING THE TRUTH, so again, WHY FAKE THE FUNK??

NEXT!!

He said:

You are full of sh-it! That's all there is to it.

My response:

AND YOU ARE LYING, PIECE OF RACIST PIG SHIT, AND THAT’S ALL THERE IS TO THAT!!

He said:

I will say it again, we do our own thing, have our own vibe, our own traditions.

My response:

YOU DAMN HYPOCRITICAL RACIST DEVIL, WHY IN THE FUCK DO YOU ALWAYS CLAIM HOW YOUR PEOPLE HAVE THEIR OWN THING, THEIR OWN TRADITIONS, VIBES, AND WHATNOT, BUT AT THE SAME TIME YOU, AND YOUR OWN PEOPLE, WILL GO OVER THE MEADOW AND THROUGH THE WOODS AND CLAIM THAT BLACK FOLKS DON’T HAVE A CULTURE, AND THAT ALL OF OUR STREET TRADITIONS CAME FROM YOUR PEOPLE!

The fact of the matter is fool, I NEVER DENIED THAT YOUR PEOPLE DON’T HAVE YOUR OWN TRADITIONS, BUT LIKE BLACK FOLKS, MUCH OF YOUR TRADITIONS, VIBES, AND WHATEVER, ARE CODIFIED TRADITIONS AND VIBES!

Again, like I said in the above, the gear that is associated with cholo gear, MEXICANS DIDN’T CREATE, NEITHER WERE THEY THE FIRST ONES TO WEAR THEM. What is typically referred to as the “cholo walk” didn’t originate from mexicans, but from black folks!! Wearing baggy pants, with long chains running down the side of the trousers, didn’t originate with mexicans, BUT WITH BLACK FOLKS! Giving daps, pound, skin, and other hand significations, didn’t originate with mexicans, BUT WITH BLACK FOLKS! The rap music that your people perform and listen to, along with the funk and r&b, didn’t originate with mexicans, or cholo culture-BUT WITH BLACK FOLKS!!! THE WAY YOUR FOLKS DANCE CONTEMPORARY DANCES, DIDN’T COME FROM MEXICANS BUT FROM BLACK FOLKS, FOOL!!
Hell, even gangsta words and expressions like gat, 5-0, bustin’ caps, Westside, cold smoke a ho, hood, hoodrat, buster, mark, gang banger, low-rider, sucker paul, captain save a ho, bitchmade, loc (which was taken from the Spanish word “loco”), etc.-DIDN’T COME FROM MEXICANS, BUT RATHER BLACK FOLKS, FOOL!!!!!

Ah man, I can go on, and on and on, with your vibes, traditions and the like, which is your own codified shit, which allows you to do your own thing, but nevertheless, much (not all) of that shit that allows your people to do your own thing-CAME FROM BLACK FOLKS!!!

He said:

I've already said I acknowledge black influence in LA but I also acknowledge Anglo and Asian influence as well. Seems more like envy on your part.

My response:

No devil, rather, it’s envy and hatred on the part of mexicans, in regards to how they hate the fact that they have the need, to constantly borrow certain cultural elements, or have had the need in the past, to borrow certain cultural elements from black folks, OUTSIDE OF LANGUAGE, which is something you’re trying to claim.

I said:

Quote:
You don't even know what a stereotype really is, and if you do, YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO PROPERLY APPLY THE TERM!

Whereas he can only say:

So what you trying to say now? Mexican Americans can't read? Look it up in the dictionary.

My response:

No paranoid, semi-literate one, what I’m saying is that you’re a damn fool, who lacks clear reading comprehension skills, which is quite evident and apparent, if someone took the time out to re read the post that prompted me to make such a remark, in its entirety, and in the first place.

But like a slick serpent, this devil is counting on the fact that no one will do such a thing. Needless to say, I remember what I was specifically responding to, and if this fool wants to get on his high horse and feign ignorance, by pushing this one issue-then I will be forced to make this imp, look much worst than the jackass, he already is…

NEXT!!

I said:

What was a damn lie? The old school cholos/pachucos that I've ran across, because if you're saying that my meeting and speaking with these cats is a "DAMN LIE," then you yourself are a DAMN LIE, for you don't know what information I gleaned from these cats, to know for sure, I'm telling a DAMN LIE: DAMN LIAR!

Whereas he can only say:

LOL

Anyway, your racist comments are all a damn lie. Chew on that!

My response:

No devil, you chew on the fact that you’re not able to adequately deal with the truths in my above statement, because you are a RACIST, who don’t want to admit what these old school cholos/pachucos admitted to me, simply because it falls into too much favor and advantage, with black folks.

So in essence, YOU GO CHEW ON A DICK, WITH YOUR LYING SOPHIST ASS, seeing as how your logic is tantamount to being that of an illogical BIOTCH!

NEXT!!!

I said:

Quote:

I mean, WHAT'S SO #%@&#%@ DIFFICULT ABOUT THAT PROSPECT, DUMBASS-SEEING AS HOW YOUR PEOPLE NOWADAYS, HAVE INCORPORATED BLACK SPEECH, BLACK SLANG WORDS, AND HIP-HOP CULTURE, BY WAY OF RAP MUSIC AND THE LIKE, INTO YOUR DAILY LIVES!

Whereas he said:

YOUR PEOPLE? More racism from the Real. Categorizing and demeaning the comments of Mexican Americans.

My response:

Yes YOUR PEOPLE!! Are you going to deny that “YOUR PEOPLE NOWADAYS, HAVE INCORPORATED BLACK SPEECH, BLACK SLANG WORDS, AND HIP-HOP CULTURE BY WAY OF RAP MUSIC, INTO” their “DAILY LIVES?”

Okay, granted, it may not be aaaaall mexicans, but you have to admit that a highly significant number of Mexican youth, even those who hate black folks, even those who are sureno haters of black folks, even those who claim to not have borrowed anything from black folks-ARE ENTANGLED, ENGAGED AND PARTICIPATE IN SOME ELEMENTS OF HIP-HOP CULTURE AND WILL LISTEN TO, AND PERFORM, RAP/HIP-HOP MUSIC!!!

You can’t deny this fool, so again devil-WHY FAKE THE FUNK???

I said:
Quote:
First of all, it is about "denying" the black CULTURAL presence in L.A. And secondly, even that "CHOLO" style, that was codified by your own people-NEEDED SOME ASSISTANCE IN CERTAIN AREAS, FROM OTHER FOLKS, ESPECIALLY HOW YOUR CONTEMPORARY SUR BRETHREN CARRY ON TODAY, WITH ALL THE BLUE GEAR, AND ACTING LIKE CRIPS FROM THE EARLY TO MID 90'S!

Whereas he said:

What the funk does Joe Blow Mexican American have to do with me and my comments to you? You can't seem to have discussion without being racist. So, I can't take your seriously. You are no different than any deranged kkk member out there.

My response:

What the fuck are you talking about? Are you that much of an addle-brained, dimwitted bastard, to where you will take a quote of mine, and will respond to it out of context, as if you were reading another quote of mine, but mistakenly forgot to post it, and address it properly?

My above quote, doesn’t fit into your response, neither have you adequately dealt with the truths in my above quote, simply because YOU CAN’T AND YOU WON’T!
But that’s cool and all, because we all know the real deal.

And speaking of me being similar to the klan. Uh, I think YOUR PEOPLE, or elements of YOUR PEOPLE, have gotten me beat on that end. For you see, and always remember this-IT IS YOUR PEOPLE, MANY OF THEM WHO ARE SURS AND SUR SYMPATHIZERS, WHO WANT TO GET RID OF THE BLACK PRESENCE IN LA (partly, so that you can get rid of the “evidence”, when it comes to the source of where much of your cultural expressions come from; but that’s another topic); AND WHO WANT TO TAKE THE HEART OUT OF BLACK FOLKS, AND NOT WANT BLACK FOLKS TO HAVE ANY PRIDE, TO WHERE THEY BOW DOWN TO MEXICANS, AND NOT LOOK THEM IN THE EYES!!! This is your people, and how they collectively roll, which is similar to how the most virulently klan ridden white psyches use to roll back in the day!
So if anyone’s harboring klan like thinking and style, I’m afraid those modes fall at the feet of many of your own people, who are mere KLANS IN TANS!!!

As I said before, so say I now and again, and that is-DON’T COMPARE ME TO THE WORST OF YOUR OWN PEOPLE, DEVIL, BECAUSE THE SHOE JUST DOESN’T FIT!

NEXT!!!

I said:


Quote:
The way your sur brethren are carrying on today, with the music, much of their speech, their gaits and what not, THE OLD SCHOOL CHOLOS WEREN'T MANIFESTING THIS STYLE BACK IN THE DAY, AND YOU KNOW THIS!

Whereas he said:

So what you saying? Modern "hip hop" did not steal the cholo style?

My response:

They may have borrowed certain elements, especially the west coast variety, but as much as what your people claim!

He said:

If I remember right, original hip hop was all about tight clothes, fat laces, rope chains, sweat pants.

My response:

I’m glad you touched upon this…

The fact of the matter is, what you’re describing is early east coast style dress, not west coast. Furthermore, in the late 80’s, and very early 90’s (like 91 for example) if you were living on the east coast, you would’ve noticed that many black male youth, began to wear baggy clothing, mainly sagging pants for the most part: sagging pants that were oversized.

Okay, now follow me (and put the rest of the BS aside), if you remember the early 90’s, and hip hop culture from the west coast, you would remember that up until 91, the rap videos, including movies, that were coming from out west, to the east coast, had black gangsta rappers who weren’t dressing in baggy, nor sagging clothes. Just check out the old NWA videos, Ice Cube videos, and movies like “Colors,” or “Boyz in the Hood.” These fools may have worn khakis, or black jeans or blue jeans, BUT THEY WERE NOT WEARING SAGGY, AND OVERSIZED SLACKS!

And guess what? NEITHER WERE ESES!!!!

Okay, are you still there?

Alright, check out the movie “Juice,” which was a movie that was made in 1990, but was released in 1991, and check out how they were dressed, with the saggy oversized pants, and coats, and compare that with the west coast videos, or presentations, that were coming from out west-AND TELL ME IF YOU STILL SEE ANY SIMILARITIES? Well, I’ll answer that by saying-YOU WON’T!!!

I was back east in the very early 90’s, going to school, when east coast black folks began to change their dress styles to saggy pants, similar to what you saw in the movie “Juice,” and trust me-THEY WEREN’T DRESSING LIKE MEXICANS/CHOLOS, NOR HAD WHAT WAS CALLED THE WEST COAST FLAVOR IN THEIR DRESS!! Again, the way black folks were dressed in the movies “Juice,” or “Straight of Brooklyn,” wasn’t the way black folks out west, let alone mexicans/cholos, WERE DRESSING!!!!

Oh for sure, in the mid 90’s, with the advent of black gangsta rappers like Snoop Dogg, and others, who introduced that crip flavor into the mix, certain elements of west coast flavor began to saturate the east coast flavor, but not in an all encompassing way, the way you eses are trying to make it!

Hell, just look at hip-hop fashion that are coming off the lines of Phat Farm, Sean John, Fubu and the like-AND TELL ME THE CHICANO/CHOLO, LET ALONE WEST COAST INFLUENCE?
Mexicans weren’t wearing oversized, baggy t-shirts, or saggy pants, but guess what? BLACK FOLKS WERE!! I even see mexicans nowadays out in L.A, wearing platinum chains, and bandannas around their wrists, which they got from who? BLACK FOLKS!!!!

Simply put, black folks have always had a history and affinity, for baggy clothing, going all the way back to the early parts of the 20th century. The thing that mexicans always do, when it comes to interpreting the fashion history of black folks, is get stuck in the late 60’s to early 80’s, as if the styles that black folks sported then, were always in existence from previous decades, which implies that this is how black folks dressed, even in the 50’s, 40’s, 30’s, 20’s, on down.

Remember, black fashion trends CHANGE WITH THE TIMES!!!!! So for your people to say that mexicans were the first ones to wear baggy clothing, because in the 1970’s or 80’s, we were wearing tight clothing, IS A FALLACIOUS POSITION TO HOLD! Why? BECAUSE IT DOESN’T TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THE FASHION THAT BLACK FOLKS DONNED PRIOR TO THESE DECADES!!!

But back to the hip hop thing:

Again, I will admit that mexicans contributed to aspects of hip-hop culture, but again, I will constantly and forthrightly say, that this contribution isn’t as all encompassing as many of your people, including yourself, CLAIM IT TO BE!

Despite the east coast, or even dirty south, acquiring certain features, they, like cholo culture, that borrowed sundry elements, still have their distinct styles and unique vibe and flavor, to where much of that east coast flavor and style, has penetrated black west coast flavor and style, to where many black folks out west, our dressing more and more in the east coast hip hop style.

So no, I reject the interpretation that you’re trying to put forth, and the interpretation that your people are trying to put forth, in claiming that east coast hip hop styles, baggy and saggy clothing, came from your people, by way of the advent of west coast gangsta rap, seeing as how in the very late 80’s and early 90’s (as early as 1990), black folks back east were already sporting baggy and sagging duds, as well as the fact that the early west coast videos being shown back east, didn’t show black west coast gangsta rappers, sporting the type of gear you claim came from mexicans, that influenced east coast hip hop, which was again-BAGGY CLOTHING, SAGGY CLOTHING, OVERSIZED T-SHIRTS AND THE LIKE!

Again, just check out east coast rap videos from the early 90’s, let’s say up until around 95 (or even today), and tell me are they dressed like cholos-COME ON WITH THAT!

(Actually, saggy clothing, especially sagging trousers, has its roots in the penal systems throughout the country.)

He said:

Besides, gangbanging is nowhere near the level that it was back before '94. Nowadays it's mostly acting anyway.

My response:

Only when it comes to the bloods and the crips, but when it comes to surenos war on the entire black population, well-THAT’S ANOTHER STORY!

I said:

Quote:

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWW!!!! You really blasted me with a zinger, now did you???

The simple fact of the matter is, I never claimed that chicano culture didn't influence black L.A. street culture, because did I not say in previous posts, probably on this one, that all cultures living in close proximity to one another will bororow off of each other???? Did I not say this??

HOWEVER, I did say that black folks took some cultural expressions from your folks, repackaged and made it their own, by creating unique distinctions in the way they dressed, walked and talked, which was different than what your people produced.


Whereas he said:

o ok so you do admit that. That's what the original topic is all about. Why you sweating it then?

My response:

THIS IS WHAT I’VE BEEN SAYING AAAAAAAAAALLLLL ALONG, WHETHER IT BE IN THE POST WHERE YOU USED THE ABOVE QUOTE OF MINE, OR OTHER POSTS THROUGHOUT THIS THREAD, AS WELL AS ON OTHER THREADS!!!

Remember fool, it was YOU, on this thread, which came at me sideways with your
BS!!! Therefore I go off of your frequency AND WILL RESPOND TO YOU, OR ANYONE, who comes at me like a bitch who has lost their damn mind!

But I digress…

NEXT!

He said:

Quote:
This is why I appealed to old photos, movies and the like, which are time capsules in how black folks, and mexicans, from back in the day, involved in the street life, were dissimiliar in their styles of dress, compared to your people, and overall representation, despite some similiarities.

Whereas he said:

The only differences were the hairstyles. Other than that it is simply became known as "West Coast." You know it and I know it.

My response:

Not quite, why? BECAUSE, AGAIN, if you were to look at the movie “Colors,” and check out how the bloods and crips were dressed, compared to the eses/cholos in that film, you will notice a distinct difference, much of which is centered in the fact that mexicans back in the day, who were cholos-DIDN’T TOG THEMSELVES DOWN IN BLUE, SIMILAR TO THE CRIPS, LET ALONE RED!!

Not only that, I remember those day man!!! Like in the movie “Colors,” or those later representations of black west coast videos that highlighted crip culture, you didn’t see ese/cholos wearing blue t-shirts, and blue jeans, wearing baseball caps with bandannas, like black bangers were wearing back in the day! Cholos weren’t wearing long sleeve black Dickie shirts, with black pants, or blue jeans, back in the day-AND YOU KNOW THIS!!!!

Check out the video “We’re all in the Same Gang,” and how one black banger was wearing a blue prison like jacket (also you can check out this gear in gangsta rap videos in the 90’s), and the like-CHOLOS WEREN’T DRESSING THAT WAY BACK IN THE DAY! Hell!! Cholos weren’t even really sporting bald heads in a major way, back in the day, which is a style that was heavily influenced by black folks, especially TUPAC!

Cholos back in the days, like those movies adequately portrayed (e.g. “Colors,” “Boulevard Nights,” “Walk Proud,” “Duke of Earl,” etc.), mostly dressed in earth tone colors, and hardly ever touched blue, let alone blue clothing, outside of wearing a blue bandanna (if you were sur), or a red bandanna (if you were norte).

All of these surs dressing up in baggy blue jeans, and wearing blue clothing, and utilizing the blue bandanna as a banner today-WASN’T GOING ON BACK IN THE DAY, PRIOR TO THE MID TO LATE 90’S!! You surs got that shit from black crip gangs of the 90’s on down.

Wearing the bandanna around the face, or tying it around the wrist, or even wearing the bandanna, to where it’s tied in a knot around the forehead-YOUR PEOPLE GOT FROM BLACK GANG BANGERS IN L.A.

Hell man, I remember in the 70’s, and early to mid 80’s, when Mexican gang members were still using the pistol, shotgun, and switch blades, as their primary weapons, whereas black gangs were using automatic weapons on one another!!

So naw man, as I said before, so say I now and again, and that is, black folks in L.A., in regards to gang culture, was influenced by certain aspects of cholo culture, but having said that, I also said that cholo culture, or let me be more specific-MODERN DAY SUR CULTURE-has been greatly influenced by huge aspects of black culture, to where each culture has nevertheless, created something unique and distinct.

If you, or anyone don’t like the truths that I’ve just put forth, then too bad, because it is the unadulterated truth, and any veterano reading my words, in regards to how surs rolled back in the day, compared to now, in regards to dress, music, etc.-WILL HAVE TO ADMIT THAT I AM TELLING THE TRUTH, IF THEY WERE HONEST WITH THEMSELVES!!!

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Unread post by TheReal » June 7th, 2007, 10:25 am

Let me end by saying that I'm not referring to all mexicans as being racist against blacks, or out to get blacks. Again, I know some may take this as a sign of weakness on my part for saying this, but what you call weakness, is really strength. Peace...

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Unread post by Old Shatterhand » June 7th, 2007, 3:09 pm

It's not post modernist revisionist history when the people that lived it in the time it happened are stating their personal observations regarding it The Real.

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Unread post by Rollin_inmy_SixFo » June 7th, 2007, 8:21 pm

mnjmc wrote:I have no resentment towards white boys, only the chicanos that go out of their way to please them. It’s is because chicanos are known for being proud of not knowing spanish, or try to hide it if they do. Which is why they always eagerly tell a whiteboy they don’t know the language. I mean chicanos are PROUD of it. I still don’t understand how people can be proud of not knowing something.
Deal with it chuntarro, Mexico is a 3rd world country that is too weak to take care of it's own citizens. It sh-itted on you and your whole family. How STUPID can you be to be proud of something that doesn't care about you?

So what if many Chicanos don't speak Spanish? LOL You're probably just mad because it reminds you that you are a chuntarro.
Yes I know spanish is from Spain, but white boys, by which I mean American whites, seem get offended when a brown faces speaks it. Chicanos not wanting to dare offend them quickly let them know they don’t speak a language that offends them. Like their little women.
You really don't have any common sense and you are a very stupid person. No wonder you had to pay a coyote to sneak you over here.
Green card? Homeboy I’m a citizen, call me Super Anchor Baby. Hell so are my parents, Reagan Amnesty. My parents didn’t get ran out of anywhere, they just knew they could make more money here. And not every part of Mexico gets hit the same by its corruption and selling out to super power to the north. Most of the immigration in my parents time was from a few typical states, having half of its population migrated. In some parts on Mexico the situation was more desperate than others. So it came down to keeping on living that miserable life or do something about it. Since armed conflict is suicidal, immigration was the next best thing. Hell having the millions leaving made life easier for those at the home land, do I even have to explain that to an idiot like you why that might be? What am I talking about? Of course I do, but not today.
You're a ceeteesenn now? LOL Your brain is FU-CKED UP. The bottom line is, your family packed it all in and ran for their lives. I can't say it enough, NO BALLS AND NO BRAINS.
Like I said before protesting and organizing movements to improve their lives don’t work in Mexico because the government will get the federal police to kill the organizers and slaughter the protesters, in those days anyways.
Man, you are one of the stupidest posters I've ever seen. Viva Mejicoooo!

But how can Mexicans that came to United States to improve their lives in my parents era of immigration, which they generally did improve their lives. Why didn’t Mexicans just rap themselves around the USA flag and just call themselves American. The answer is a brown face got really treated like shit in those days. And we would damned if we dick ride America while its people spit on our faces and treat us like second class citizens and just take all that with a smiley face and say thank you. We aint chicanos.


RETARD: See above. :idea:
Then stop looking in the mirror. Please homeboy has your bravery ever been tested? I know you claim one of those old ass ELA hoods, but ELA has been quite for a long time already. It’s been one of the safest spots in Los Angeles for a good while. Probably the last time it got serious out there you where in diapers, I don’t know your age. So tell me what is the extraordinary brave thing that chicanos have done to even begin to call someone a bitch. That’s right homeboy not a damn thing.
IMMIGRANT, shut the fu-ck up and go wash somebody's car. Violence is not something to be proud of. I called you a punk and a bi-tch for packing it all in and running away. The fact that you're here is all the proof anybody needs!
They are called books retard try picking one up and reading it. When the US finally got satellites in the air to spy on the Soviet Union it found out that they were putting a big front that was all BS. If you don’t believe me then look it up and learn real history. You need to stop filling your mind make believe chicano and cholo history that is false. It's not classified info but it was. It should be common knowledge but some morons seem to be more interested in fake chicano history.
^^Taken from the Yearly Tamale, d.f. 1992. Circulation: 10.
Keep it real? That’s real? Gee I guess Chicano ass cholos are influenced in their way of speech by blacks after all, right moron. You want proof then right? Can you even provide proof to the contrary? No didn’t think so, all you got is lies from your older homeboys. Look at pictures of old black gangs in not just LA but the whole US you will see. Sorry to expose all the lies of your dumb homeboys. But don’t be too sad the lowrider might still hold out. Chicanos didn’t start shit just admitted. They are just clothes they don’t mean much anyway.


I never said Chicanos are never influenced. Learn to read and speak ENGLEEESH. You're in the United States now.

Anyway, Immigrant, it's all original. Deal with it. Grow some nuts...o wait, you don't have any.
I give a mad fu-- if other Americans want us hear or not. They could hate us twice as much as they do know I could care less. We are not the chicanos out to please your white gods homeboy. Matter of fact I want you to be more upset, because your ass can’t do shit about it.
It's spelled "here" and not hear. Speak Engleeesh.... NO HA-BLOW ES PAN YOL.

White gods? So that is what you really think of white people. There you go again with your inferiority complex. I've already told you, Mexico has imitation whiteboy leaders, speaks a whiteboy language, follows a white religion, begs the whiteman for government handouts (amnesty), uses whiteboy technology. You sound more stupid with every post.
And why do you talk shit about chunties and still post pictures or links to the pictures of them. All of those Placita pictures are nothing but Mexican ass chunties idiot. They the REAL history of LA not coward ass chicanos. There are no chunti fairytales just Chicano fairytales of starting trends.


Those were Mexican AMERICANS. Not bit-chass illegal alien immigrant rodents like your entire family that would rather dig holes, run, and hide than stand its ground.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. fu-- I’m going to save this brain dead statement. Yeah right retard the Chicanos, Whites, and Blacks lived happily ever after before the Mexicans immigrants showed up. You can not be that stupid are you? Damn, for me to correct that statement would take 40 pages, and that will be just to make fun of you. That white boy dick must be deep in your mouth bitch to type that statement. I don’t even have to tell you that is BS do I? Does the Civil Rights movement and 1992 riots ring a bell. I don’t care what you think those “No Mexicans No Dogs Allowed” signs met you dumb ass chicanos also.


Face it chuntarro, black folk don't want immigrants like you running around and breeding. That's why they beat your asssses, threw rocks at you, and dragged you out of cars during the riots. Dude in the video even said it out of his own mouth, "if immigrants weren't here, we wouldn't be having this problem." LOL You obviously don't COM' PREN' DO.

Anyway, you have a major inferiority complex and obsession with "whiteboys." LOL. I'll bet you're one of those 3 foot chuntarro men, that smiles real wide in front of white people but then show your true colors when they leave.

Make fun? Any serious conversation on my part ended when you packed it in and ran.
Again jealous of what, you are from ELA not Beverly Hills. I go to ELA just to remind myself how much worse Compton could look like. Hell when someone asks how Mexico looks we just tell them go to ELA and you get a very good idea. You type like you live in some upscale area, ELA is like downtown with dirt. Bottom feeding is ELA. Told you I’m a citizen I can’t get deported. .LOL. Come on now Mexicans are the last people you would see begging for change. They might sell you oranges but they don’t beg for shit. You would see a white guy beg for change before you would see a Mexican do it. You know those white guys with those signs claiming they are a Vietnam veteran. I have only seen kids and those Eco types use bikes as their main source of transportation. Damn ELA most be really #%@& up if you see all that, I’m sorry you live in such poor ass ghettos such as ELA. LOL. I’ll take Compton over ELA any #%@&#%@ day of the week. NOW THAT’S REAL. HAHA.
You're jealous because we aren't chuntarros who HA BLOW ES PANYOL. LOL You aren't from Compton, you're from Mejico! ja ja ja.... your hood consists of a goat and 5 chickens.
But for real homeboy you think being some cholo from the same hood my great grandfather was from, is something to be proud of? It is conformity in its most idiotic form. A conformity that used kill its own people. I guess the only good about is that they could some day be low paid Rent A Cholo for some movie or video. Sad to me. And you call that pride. Bitch please, tell you grandmother it is time to shave her eyebrows already.[
Chuntarro, just go back to Mexico and stay there. Why don't you go join the Mexico forums or something? You're fu-cking up my country. No, you can't sugarcoat your wretched immigrant plight. It's not cool to fit 50 people in one apartment, beg for goverment handouts, change your identity every year, go on camera and beg for mercy, or othewise be the laughing stock of the entire world. Mexico has no respect. It is the lowest of the low. Even other Latin countries despise Mexico. It's nothing more than a bunch of stupid, backward, and corrupt people like you who provide CHEAP labor. Now, go mow my lawn and tell your mother that I have a pet rat that had more litters than she. Let her chew on the "competition."

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Unread post by Rollin_inmy_SixFo » June 7th, 2007, 8:38 pm

The real:

You is crazy!

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Unread post by perongregory » June 7th, 2007, 8:47 pm

Rollininmysixfo dont fall into the same thing you said the Real does (blamin all for the actions of a few). When you say blacks dont like immigrants and that they were messin immigrants up in the riots you only help to bolster some of the apocryphal claims of Mexicans who do want to find a reason to punish blacks in general, as well as just building up general animosity. Also, you indict a whole race who does not all feel like that. During the riots I remember videos of blacks helping immigrants being harassed by coward ass black bangers, blacks saying "they Mexican, they cool", Grafitti that read: "bloods, crips, and eses together!", and other instances of either general ignorance (just ignoring each other) on the behalf of the two groups, or helping each other. Yeah, you had some ignorant fools fuckin with easy "prey", but it was no I am black and he/she is a Mexican immigrant, fuck em.

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Unread post by Rollin_inmy_SixFo » June 7th, 2007, 11:17 pm

perongregory wrote:Rollininmysixfo dont fall into the same thing you said the Real does (blamin all for the actions of a few). When you say blacks dont like immigrants and that they were messin immigrants up in the riots you only help to bolster some of the apocryphal claims of Mexicans who do want to find a reason to punish blacks in general, as well as just building up general animosity. Also, you indict a whole race who does not all feel like that. During the riots I remember videos of blacks helping immigrants being harassed by coward ass black bangers, blacks saying "they Mexican, they cool", Grafitti that read: "bloods, crips, and eses together!", and other instances of either general ignorance (just ignoring each other) on the behalf of the two groups, or helping each other. Yeah, you had some ignorant fools fuckin with easy "prey", but it was no I am black and he/she is a Mexican immigrant, fu-- em.
O :shock:

See, I didn't know anybody was reading.

I saw it exactly as you saw it. I was just replying to some sucka, who started dissing. You saw what he or she wrote? :x

Rollin, knows what's happening.

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Unread post by perongregory » June 7th, 2007, 11:27 pm

Rollin_inmy_SixFo wrote:
perongregory wrote:Rollininmysixfo dont fall into the same thing you said the Real does (blamin all for the actions of a few). When you say blacks dont like immigrants and that they were messin immigrants up in the riots you only help to bolster some of the apocryphal claims of Mexicans who do want to find a reason to punish blacks in general, as well as just building up general animosity. Also, you indict a whole race who does not all feel like that. During the riots I remember videos of blacks helping immigrants being harassed by coward ass black bangers, blacks saying "they Mexican, they cool", Grafitti that read: "bloods, crips, and eses together!", and other instances of either general ignorance (just ignoring each other) on the behalf of the two groups, or helping each other. Yeah, you had some ignorant fools fuckin with easy "prey", but it was no I am black and he/she is a Mexican immigrant, fu-- em.
O :shock:

See, I didn't know anybody was reading.

I saw it exactly as you saw it. I was just replying to some sucka, who started dissing. You saw what he or she wrote? :x

Rollin, knows what's happening.
yeah, I am reading everything.. this is a weird arguement to me. I know of some of the tensions between chicanos and Mexican nationals but you guys are taking it to another level.

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Unread post by Rollin_inmy_SixFo » June 7th, 2007, 11:51 pm

perongregory wrote:
Rollin_inmy_SixFo wrote:
perongregory wrote:
yeah, I am reading everything.. this is a weird arguement to me. I know of some of the tensions between chicanos and Mexican nationals but you guys are taking it to another level.
See, people from foreign countries think differently. They have other customs and other values than we do as Americans. It's similar to a caste system that teaches them to categorize.

Many have a hierarchy, if you will:

First are White Blonde Anglo Saxons.

Second, are there own little group (insert name).

Third, (in this case) it's Chicanos or Mexican Americans. Then, Other.

So that creates tension because we basically say "fu-ck you" to that system, etc., etc..

Their response is, "how dare ju fo-ck me?" :lol:

That's what this is.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by ~J~ » June 10th, 2007, 5:37 pm

The Panch wrote:Smile Now, Cry Later" mindframe came from a Smokey Robinson song and West coast gangster rap played a huge part on influencing L.A. Chicanos to rap as well as the late Roger Troutman getting his voice box on.
Actually it was Sunny & The Sunliners Texano's song: "Smile Now, Cry Later". It's been some time but if I remember correctly, in a documentary George Clinton acknowledged the fact that the use of Synthesizers was borrowed from Eurporean music in that time.

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Unread post by ~J~ » June 10th, 2007, 5:42 pm

mnjmc wrote:HAHA. Nothing but pictures of people before their coward ass children called themselves chicano.
You got some nerve making up this non-sense remark.

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Unread post by ~J~ » June 10th, 2007, 5:52 pm

Rollin_inmy_SixFo wrote:
mnjmc wrote:
Rollin_inmy_SixFo wrote:Weren't no tv's or cell phones or computers back in the old times. Make no mistake, the Cholo style, as a finished product, is all Chicano.

Anyway, here's a link, that includes basic history, pics, and facts, as to how it became what it is today.

The First House in the City of LOS.

HAHA. Nothing but pictures of people before their coward ass children called themselves chicano.
Cowards? Your entire familia is cowardly because they RAN over here and had to pay $200 dollars to a coyote to bring your worthlessasss into MY country. That's right, you and your family didn't have the balls nor brains to stay put, so like PUNKS, they packed it in and RAN. 100% BI-TCH! LOL I could imagine you standing in line at the immigration office and begging for a GREEN CARD! Family getting bit-chslapped and degraded the entire time. LOLLOLOLOL
There's no need for that remark. weither playing or not.

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Unread post by ~J~ » June 10th, 2007, 7:02 pm

[quote="TheReal"]Black gangs in L.A. started the modern day gang culture in L.A., that many surenos have adopted! Now mind you, I will admit that cultures that live in close proximity to one another, will borrow from off of each other, HOWEVER, to claim that everything black folks have, especially in regards to west coast, or gang culture, coming from mexicans-IS BS!!

It was pachucos who got their style of dress (zoot suits), music, walk, certain street slang, hand significations, attitude and the like-FROM BLACK CULTURE DURING THE 30'S, AND 40'S.

*Yes, it's likely that the Zoot or Drape as the Harlem Blacks called them originated with the East Coast Black youth but it could have come from Clark Gable in "Gone with the Wind" as some believe, not one knows for sure. One can argue that the Pachucos took a similar approach with regards to Blacks as did the Bloods-Crips with regards to the Chicano Gangster.

And remember, it was black folks who began to call "ramflas" LOWRIDERS, NOT MEXICANS!!

*Okay Black folks get credit for the the term "Lowrider" as the EL Paso Pachucos do for the term "Zoot"

Furthermore, if you want to check out how old school cholos dressed back in the day, on up until 95, just check out old photos, and movies from back in those days. Back in the days, mexican sureno or gang bangers, would primarily dress in earth tone colors (e.g. beige, brown, white, black, etc.), whereas black gang bangers, if they were crips, would be togged down in blue, while upholding the blue rag, as some type of banner.

Just check out movies like "Colors" and see the differences in how ese surenos dressed, and how the crips and the bloods dressed. There may have been some similiarities, but you can't deny the cultural flourishes and textures that black folks incorporated into their own style (especially that of the bloods).

Moreover, check out cholo films like "Walk Proud," "Duke of Earl," and "Boulevard Nights," and the like-and still tell me with a straight face, that black gang bangers back in the day-DIDN'T DRESS OR STYLE THEMSELVES DIFFERENTLY!

No, what it is, is that you have these young eses nowadays, who weren't born during these times, or were to young to fully remember the times, when black gang bangers, on up until the mid to late 90's, sported, dressed and represented themselves, the way contemporary surenos do nowadays.

*Your right on this, who's saying otherwise aside from a few ignorant youngsters?

Nowadays, surenos are copying, mimicking and outright arrogating, the black gang banger crip culture from the early to late 90's, in how they dress, extol the blue rag as a sacred street banner, carry themselves, as well as the type of music they perform (rap music), including the ambience of their "chicano" rap music videos!

Surenos out there today, are doing nothing new, but many of them, like this fool, can lie and say that they originated this L.A. gangsta shit (deceiving a lot of folks, including gullible black folks, who are ahistorical about their history anyway), simply because they are in the majority, when the reality is, IT WAS BLACK FOLKS WHO ORIGINALLY BROUGHT THAT STREET GANGSTA FLAVOR, TO L.A. AS WELL AS PRODUCED IT IN L.A.!

*Yes nowadays, some/most Surenos are influenced by aspects of Crip-Black-Hip-Hop culture, but still have some if not many aspects of the aspects of the retro Cholo.

Don't be deceived by this fool! Hell, if it weren't for black folks in L.A. you wouldn't even have Chicano rap, which is nothing but repackaged black gangsta rap, with a few cultural flourishes coming from mexicans.

So naw man, when it comes to cultural swapping and the like, black folks in general, especially in L.A., really don't owe mexicans-A DAMN THING, if you reeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaalllly want to take it there!

*Who's saying Black folks own Mexicans something?

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Unread post by ~J~ » June 10th, 2007, 8:31 pm

mnjmc, you need a good Rightous talking to.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang cultu

Unread post by NICKELS » June 11th, 2007, 12:45 am

~J~ wrote:
The Panch wrote:Smile Now, Cry Later" mindframe came from a Smokey Robinson song and West coast gangster rap played a huge part on influencing L.A. Chicanos to rap as well as the late Roger Troutman getting his voice box on.
Actually it was Sunny & The Sunliners Texano's song: "Smile Now, Cry Later". It's been some time but if I remember correctly, in a documentary George Clinton acknowledged the fact that the use of Synthesizers was borrowed from Eurporean music in that time.
and played with a black music arrangement , you give a black person a instrument , he will play african based music through that instrument , our way of doing it , the jazz legend winto marsalis explained it very well also others including bo diddley , we play what was passed down from beats and rythms from our people and tranfer it to these diff insrtuments , give black people chinese instruments come back in a few years and see how we rock our shyt through that instrument

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Unread post by Noog » June 11th, 2007, 4:53 am

Now that would be of interest - yeah, do it, Chinese instruments....Indian tablas, whatever....making beautiful music with whatever comes to hand

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Unread post by TheReal » June 11th, 2007, 7:25 am

To J:

The term "zoot" was a black slang word, originating on the east coast, that denoted someone getting high, or being out of this world.

Pachucos did not originate this term...

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Unread post by ~J~ » June 11th, 2007, 10:14 am

TheReal wrote:To J:

The term "zoot" was a black slang word, originating on the east coast, that denoted someone getting high, or being out of this world.

Pachucos did not originate this term...
It had been a little while... I can't find the specific article, alway from what I reread it seems that the Jazz Musicians were saying "Zoot": I stand corrected.

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Unread post by ~J~ » June 11th, 2007, 11:10 am

Old Shatterhand wrote:Nortenos didn't fly red until after 1968 (the year Nuestra Familia formed at Tracy). Interestingly, when I've asked them about it they said the red flag is in memory of Ceaser Chavez.
The UFW Flag representation goes back deeper an Cesar Chavez. the meaning of the color red really goes back to the Mexican Flag. The red represents Heroes blood.

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Unread post by mnjmc » June 12th, 2007, 7:37 am

I have no resentment towards white boys, only the chicanos that go out of their way to please them. It’s is because chicanos are known for being proud of not knowing spanish, or try to hide it if they do. Which is why they always eagerly tell a whiteboy they don’t know the language. I mean chicanos are PROUD of it. I still don’t understand how people can be proud of not knowing something.

Deal with it chuntarro, Mexico is a 3rd world country that is too weak to take care of it's own citizens. It sh-itted on you and your whole family. How STUPID can you be to be proud of something that doesn't care about you?

Yeah and ELA doesn’t look like a 3rd world country? Well homeboy sorry to break it to you but ELA looks very much like a 3rd world country. Remember the dirty ass ghetto with the most heroin addicts in LA? Remember it’s East Los Angeles not Beverly Hills. Quit responding to me like ELA chicanos have money to burn, because if that were the case you wouldn’t live in dirty ass ELA.

Anyways….

Deal with it dumb ass little chicano, the United States didn’t want chicanos around when whites started arriving to Southern California in great numbers. The US shitted on your whole family for many generations. How fucking RETARDED can you be to be proud of something that considered chicanos nothing but an obstacle for the whites to overcome, and openly discriminated against your kind. If it weren’t for the blacks fighting for civil rights you chicano ass bitches would still be unable to eat in the same restaurant ass whites. Get your punk ass chicano history right already, so far your version of history is completely false and sugar coated. Again learn to read a book. Stop listening to all the lies your homeboys tell you.

You see that is the true history of chicanos in the US. I don’t know what kind of make believe BS you filled your head with but let me tell you it’s 100% wrong.

Now let me tell you more of your precious chicano history.

They confiscated your great great grandfathers, if indeed your families history in this state goes back that far, property forced him out and made way for whites to move in, and trust me homeboy your family way back then did not call themselves that cowardly disgusting word chicano, no matter what BS your family or homeboys tell you. After that their movements where restricted, couldn’t even live in the same area with whites.

They forced those Mexicans, still didn’t called themselves chicanos or even Mexican American, to the worst patch of land which was ELA. From there those Mexican families would come to the rest of LA and do chores for whites in other parts of LA. There punk ass coward ass children being so ashamed of being called Mexican, actually giving a fuck of what whites think, made up this stupid idea of chicano. Completely being ungrateful to the sacrifices their parents made for them, just simply backstabbed their parents. But did they do something great for their people or generation? No, they pretty much did the same thing. Did the chores whites did not want to do for very cheap. Chicanos were and even still are a source of cheap labor, Rent A Cholos don’t get paid much. Hell every time I see one on TV they are humiliated and told to act like cowards, cops always slapping them around and shit, you know get treated like prostitutes.

Later on chicanos showed some backbone. They would jump sailors when they passed down their neighborhoods. Nothing really brave just ganged up on a couple of sailors trying to act tough. Now you would think that the Chicanos being such patriotic Americans as you claim they are wouldn’t lay a hand on a soldier fighting in WW2. Well wouldn’t you? Every American treated service men in the WW2 era real special. OUR COULD IT BE THAT THESE CHICANOS RESENTED THE WHITES AND THE US GOVERNMENT FOR THEIR MESSED UP SITUATION?

Hell they could of helped the war effort by simply choosing to stop wearing the oversized zoot zuits. Yet they pretty much said fuck the US and the war effort. Please homeboy chicanos weren’t the America loving good old boys you claim them to be. How and the fuck could they? Every day they were reminded that the whites thought chicanos were inferior, and were not welcomed around the same areas. And they still disrespected their parents Mexican identity BY PRETENDING THEY WERE SOME HOW BETTER THAN THERE PARENTS BECAUSE THEYMADE UP THE WORD CHICANO.

Now a moron like you might not understand me when I say chicanos in the 1940s backstabbed their parents by making up the word chicano. The reason being that most chicanos in ELA want to falsely claim that their family history goes back to when California was still part of Mexico, or got there just after it was bought by the US, which is false. The great majority of kids calling themselves chicanos at that time had parents who were from Mexico. If you don’t want to believe me then look up the Sleepy Lagoon murder trail. All those 17 chicanos had mothers that only spoke Spanish, or Spanish was their first language. Hell 2 of those pachucos were born in Mexico, and yes even Mexicans born in Mexico would back stab their parents and call themselves chicanos in the 1940s. There was also mass migration going on in those days, it was just not illegal in those days.

Now hysteria started to grip the whites in that time. They saw pachucos ass blood thirsty villains who killed service men any chance they got , even though they never actually killed one. These news stories about chicanos attacking sailors spread all across the country. Many sailors and marines went to southern California to go beat up any pahucos they could find. They all started to riot, badly beating and attacking any pachucos they could find. Also they stripped them of their clothing in the middle of the street.

After the riots they banned the zoot zuit. They also further policed the chicanos, they made up the sundown laws, when the sun came down chicanos couldn’t even be seen in the white areas. The police would arrest them and beat them, finally dropping them off in their neighborhoods. Like I said before, it only took the whites to slap chicanos a bit to make them act right. The chicanos never did a fucking thing to improve their situation. They pretty much took their frustrations out on each other and their families.

Shit was so fucked up for chicanos that they didn’t even consider themselves American. That’s how the phrase “The Republic of East Los Angeles” came to being.

And it stayed like that until the blacks had success in their movements. Which was the late in the late 60s. They were the ones that passed laws that made life better, not only for themselves, but all other non whites like the chicanos. Yet chicanos still have the nerve to bitch about who started baggy clothing. The laws that blacks passed made life better, but there was still work to be done. The fight for equality kept on going even though many whites wanted minorities shut up and be grateful that those laws were passed. There was still a lot of unofficial discrimination and police corruption. And minorities kept on protesting and going to gatherings.

Chicanos today conveniently forgot this part of their history. And like good little coward ass bitches they want to pretend that America was always good to them, and proclaim they were always proud Americans. They might be like that today but as little as 30 years ago that wasn’t the case. But they want to brain wash their kids into believing their wrong version of history. They want to just blame Mexicans because people still don’t respect them, always caring what whites think of them.

Yes I know spanish is from Spain, but white boys, by which I mean American whites, seem get offended when a brown faces speaks it. Chicanos not wanting to dare offend them quickly let them know they don’t speak a language that offends them. Like their little women.

So what if many Chicanos don't speak Spanish? LOL You're probably just mad because it reminds you that you are a chuntarro.

It doesn’t matter to me what language a persons knows or doesn’t know. But chicanos are PROUD of not knowing it. Which makes no sense to me. How can someone be proud of not knowing something. I know Spanish and English but I’m not proud that I don’t know how to speak other languages. I don’t care that I don’t know how to speak them, but I’m not proud of not knowing either. Those coward ass chicanos are proud because they can tell those white boys they are just like them. It’s another way for chicanos to please whites and to try and look down on Mexicans.

Green card? Homeboy I’m a citizen, call me Super Anchor Baby. Hell so are my parents, Reagan Amnesty. My parents didn’t get ran out of anywhere, they just knew they could make more money here. And not every part of Mexico gets hit the same by its corruption and selling out to super power to the north. Most of the immigration in my parents time was from a few typical states, having half of its population migrated. In some parts on Mexico the situation was more desperate than others. So it came down to keeping on living that miserable life or do something about it. Since armed conflict is suicidal, immigration was the next best thing. Hell having the millions leaving made life easier for those at the home land, do I even have to explain that to an idiot like you why that might be? What am I talking about? Of course I do, but not today.

You're a ceeteesenn now? LOL Your brain is FU-CKED UP. The bottom line is, your family packed it all in and ran for their lives. I can't say it enough, NO BALLS AND NO BRAINS.

No my family got here to earn more money, nobody threatened there lives out there in Mexico. NO BALLS NO BRAINS is a perfect example of ELA cholos of your generation. NO BALLS because you can be a straight bitch like you and pass for a gangster in ELA, the most gang infested area were it’s considered safe and no murders happen, your heroin addicted mommy and daddy were also fuck up cholos, oh and grandma and grandpa where from it to. NO BRAINS because your whole family is stuck being broke cholos from the same old neighborhood. Generation after generation of fuck ups. No one progressing, all of you just stuck in the same pattern of failure.

Like I said before protesting and organizing movements to improve their lives don’t work in Mexico because the government will get the federal police to kill the organizers and slaughter the protesters, in those days anyways.

Man, you are one of the stupidest posters I've ever seen. Viva Mejicoooo!

Yeah and like I said before the US only had to slap chicanoss around to make the act right. Not even fire a shot because they are true cowards. It took little to keep chicanos under control. The blacks had to win there rights for them. At least Mexican tried through many wars, uprisings and gatherings. Chicanos back then got treated just as bad as Mexicans did only chicanos did not do a damn thing about their situation. Quit pretending like this country treated you chicanos right. Read above to the examples of that.

Mexicans know better than anyone how fucked up their government can be, but they are proud to call themselves Mexican because that is what they are. It doesn’t mean that they are loyal to the government in Mexico, it has to do with their blood, heritage, and people. Mexica from the native language and written in Spanish for the European blood in them also.

But how can Mexicans that came to United States to improve their lives in my parents era of immigration, which they generally did improve their lives. Why didn’t Mexicans just rap themselves around the USA flag and just call themselves American. The answer is a brown face got really treated like shit in those days. And we would damned if we dick ride America while its people spit on our faces and treat us like second class citizens and just take all that with a smiley face and say thank you. We aint chicanos.

RETARD: See above. :idea:

Same to you.

Then stop looking in the mirror. Please homeboy has your bravery ever been tested? I know you claim one of those old ass ELA hoods, but ELA has been quite for a long time already. It’s been one of the safest spots in Los Angeles for a good while. Probably the last time it got serious out there you where in diapers, I don’t know your age. So tell me what is the extraordinary brave thing that chicanos have done to even begin to call someone a bitch. That’s right homeboy not a damn thing.

IMMIGRANT, shut the fu-ck up and go wash somebody's car.

Why? So I can raise money for one of your dead homeboys funerals. That’s what they do in ELA right? Died from ODs not bullets, not in ELA nowadays. Quit typing to me like ELA cholos are known for having money, probably known for being the most broke down out of all of them cholos.

Violence is not something to be proud of.

Yeah of course, execpt if your a gangster. Isn't being proud violence and the fear made an important part of being a gangster, at least for the young ones trying to get their rep. So your bitch ass agrees then. ELA is now famously known now to all the other cholos in LA as soft, it’s a laughing stock if you didn‘t know. How else could it be, most of those young cholos in ELA ain’t banging and are pretty much just following the same low class tradition of their fuck up cholo parents, like you did. They just put on that uniform, with the luxury of not having their life in danger, unlike the rest of LA. Those days of banging in ELA are long gone. People out there tell me that even to this day there is still chicano cholo drug addicts breaking into houses to steal. Hell the rest of the other gang areas grew out of that a long time ago. But ELA hasn’t grown out of that low class shit.

I called you a punk and a bi-tch for packing it all in and running away. The fact that you're here is all the proof anybody needs!

I already gave you the explanations for the immigration of Mexicans, and why staying had nothing to do with bravery but with practicality. And the reasons why chicanos having the nerve to all anyone a punk or a bitch is stupid. Chicano is a history of cowardly conformity.

They are called books retard try picking one up and reading it. When the US finally got satellites in the air to spy on the Soviet Union it found out that they were putting a big front that was all BS. If you don’t believe me then look it up and learn real history. You need to stop filling your mind make believe chicano and cholo history that is false. It's not classified info but it was. It should be common knowledge but some morons seem to be more interested in fake chicano history.

^^Taken from the Yearly Tamale, d.f. 1992. Circulation: 10.

So I take it that reading a book is to great of a task for you? Well there is also documentaries on it if reading a book is to tough for you. And no I will never use a Yearly, Monthly, or Daily for information unless I trust a certain journalist, only idiots like you get there info from hyped up news reports. That is how the sailors got all hyped up to beat on chicanos.

Keep it real? That’s real? Gee I guess Chicano ass cholos are influenced in their way of speech by blacks after all, right moron. You want proof then right? Can you even provide proof to the contrary? No didn’t think so, all you got is lies from your older homeboys. Look at pictures of old black gangs in not just LA but the whole US you will see. Sorry to expose all the lies of your dumb homeboys. But don’t be too sad the lowrider might still hold out. Chicanos didn’t start shit just admitted. They are just clothes they don’t mean much anyway.

I never said Chicanos are never influenced. Learn to read and speak ENGLEEESH. You're in the United States now.

No but you have greatly exaggerated the influence chicanos had on blacks. They both used the same mass produced clothing chicanos used. Chicanos wore them one way blacks another. Both barrowed from one another, chicanos were not the great source of inspiration of modern day gang attire. It was the zoot zuit. The reason being after the riots with sailors and pachucos, the zoot zuits were banned. Which caused both chicanos and blacks to use the clothes that was available to emulate the zoot zuits. That’s were we got baggy clothing my friend, and since chicanos did not invent zoot zuits they need to shut the fuck up. ELA chicanos seem to have a chip on their shoulder about the subject, but oh well what can you do.

Anyway, Immigrant, it's all original. Deal with it.

Yes it is original. But chicanos did not invent it. Deal with that.

Grow some nuts...o wait, you don't have any.

Like a true fag, imagining some other man’s nuts.

I give a mad fu-- if other Americans want us hear or not. They could hate us twice as much as they do know I could care less. We are not the chicanos out to please your white gods homeboy. Matter of fact I want you to be more upset, because your ass can’t do shit about it.

It's spelled "here" and not hear. Speak Engleeesh.... NO HA-BLOW ES PAN YOL.

I made more mistakes than that, particularly on my punctuation. Can you catch them? Let’s see how much you really know the English language. If that is the only one you caught then I’m afraid you don’t know it very well. But look at you, all excited because you found one mistake, good for you little boy now you get to go to recess 5 minutes early. LOL.

White gods? So that is what you really think of white people.

No, that’s just how chicanos treat whites, always trying to please them. Even after all the history of racism and discrimination of whites to even the fools that call themselves chicanos. Chicanos just want to conveniently forget all that history of abuse, because it offends whites in this country. Always tying to say “We are Americans just like you”. If it wasn’t for blacks breaking down those doors you would still be a second class citizen. But like I said chicanos conveniently forget their true history. The vast majority of America wanted you chicanos gone, from the government to its common people. Yall got bitch slapped by everyone in America and then want to be end up being like them.

There you go again with your inferiority complex. I've already told you, Mexico has imitation whiteboy leaders, speaks a whiteboy language, follows a white religion, begs the whiteman for government handouts (amnesty), uses whiteboy technology. You sound more stupid with every post.

Again moron by whiteboy I mean American whites. I even told you that on the same post your responding to. And you already know what I have to say about that unintelligent remark. It was on out earlier debate. You brought it twice. I answered both and you came up with the same two line lame insults, much like what you are doing now. But this the third time you brought it up.

And why do you talk shit about chunties and still post pictures or links to the pictures of them. All of those Placita pictures are nothing but Mexican ass chunties idiot. They the REAL history of LA not coward ass chicanos. There are no chunti fairytales just Chicano fairytales of starting trends.

Those were Mexican AMERICANS. Not bit-chass illegal alien immigrant rodents like your entire family that would rather dig holes, run, and hide than stand its ground.

You fucking moron. LOL. I really hope you don’t think those Mexicans in your picture actually claimed to be or called themselves “Mexican Americans“. Come on now even you have to have more sense than that. Is there any history that you know that is actually factual. It was either American or Mexican back in those days, but in no way have those two words come together to explain one person in back then. Odds are that they were Mexican immigrants, not illegal because there was no cap on the number of people that could migrate to the US in those days. LEARN SOME ACTUAL HISTORY AND NOT THE LIES YOU HAVE BEEN BROUGHT UP TO BELIEVE. All your knowledge about the past is pathetic wishful thinking of chicanos.

Think about it, why else would they dress like that in their pictures, charro hats in everything. The style of the town is Mexican. Those people in your pictures were proud Mexicans, nothing more nothing less. Whether you want to believe it or not.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. fu-- I’m going to save this brain dead statement. Yeah right retard the Chicanos, Whites, and Blacks lived happily ever after before the Mexicans immigrants showed up. You can not be that stupid are you? Damn, for me to correct that statement would take 40 pages, and that will be just to make fun of you. That white boy dick must be deep in your mouth bitch to type that statement. I don’t even have to tell you that is BS do I? Does the Civil Rights movement and 1992 riots ring a bell. I don’t care what you think those “No Mexicans No Dogs Allowed” signs met you dumb ass chicanos also.

Face it chuntarro, black folk don't want immigrants like you running around and breeding. That's why they beat your asssses, threw rocks at you, and dragged you out of cars during the riots. Dude in the video even said it out of his own mouth, "if immigrants weren't here, we wouldn't be having this problem." LOL You obviously don't COM' PREN' DO.

Dude in the video is just upset at the demographic change, his whole world changed in a few short years. He still in shock, most of what that guy said is out of frustration from that dirty war between 18th Street and P Stone. Still if he doesn’t want us here to bad. There is nothing he or you can do about it. You two just have to keep crying, because we don’t care.

Oh please only very early on in the riots did a few blacks attack a few Mexicans, even though the Mexican and black relationship was pretty bad back then. After those initial skirmishes both Mexicans and blacks rioted together, I even have family that still have shit from those days. Even whites started to go down there and raid stores. Now when them sailors dragged you chicanos from your neighborhoods, beating you chicanos, and stripping your beloved zoot zuits. That happened from the beginning of the riot to the end. They didn’t want chicanos in this country for sure. After the riots chicanos didn’t even retaliate, just kept there head down and stayed out the whites peoples way like good little hoes.

Anyway, you have a major inferiority complex and obsession with "whiteboys." LOL. I'll bet you're one of those 3 foot chuntarro men, that smiles real wide in front of white people but then show your true colors when they leave.

No I just show no emotion. I don’t know but since I was kid I always have had a serious expression. Don’t smile much unless I’m around friends. But what does my facial expressions have to do with any thing?

Again jealous of what, you are from ELA not Beverly Hills. I go to ELA just to remind myself how much worse Compton could look like. Hell when someone asks how Mexico looks we just tell them go to ELA and you get a very good idea. You type like you live in some upscale area, ELA is like downtown with dirt. Bottom feeding is ELA. Told you I’m a citizen I can’t get deported. .LOL. Come on now Mexicans are the last people you would see begging for change. They might sell you oranges but they don’t beg for shit. You would see a white guy beg for change before you would see a Mexican do it. You know those white guys with those signs claiming they are a Vietnam veteran. I have only seen kids and those Eco types use bikes as their main source of transportation. Damn ELA most be really #%@& up if you see all that, I’m sorry you live in such poor ass ghettos such as ELA. LOL. I’ll take Compton over ELA any #%@&#%@ day of the week. NOW THAT’S REAL. HAHA.

You're jealous because we aren't chuntarros who HA BLOW ES PANYOL. LOL You aren't from Compton, you're from Mejico! ja ja ja.... your hood consists of a goat and 5 chickens.

Damn kid you sound like you are in kindergarten, but you didn’t disagree with me now did you. You know as well I do that ELA is the dirties and ugliest ghetto out there, I said that in my post and you didn’t say it wasn’t. And no I’m not jealous, though I am not sure exactly why you are so desperate to believe that. How can I ever be jealous of some one that lives in ELA, I would never want to live there. And your hood consists of 500 heroin addicts. Tell your homeboys to cover up the tracks when they looking for a job.

But for real homeboy you think being some cholo from the same hood my great grandfather was from, is something to be proud of? It is conformity in its most idiotic form. A conformity that used kill its own people. I guess the only good about is that they could some day be low paid Rent A Cholo for some movie or video. Sad to me. And you call that pride. Bitch please, tell you grandmother it is time to shave her eyebrows already.

Chuntarro, just go back to Mexico and stay there. Why don't you go join the Mexico forums or something? You're fu-cking up my country. No, you can't sugarcoat your wretched immigrant plight. It's not cool to fit 50 people in one apartment, beg for goverment handouts, change your identity every year, go on camera and beg for mercy, or othewise be the laughing stock of the entire world. Mexico has no respect. It is the lowest of the low. Even other Latin countries despise Mexico. It's nothing more than a bunch of stupid, backward, and corrupt people like you who provide CHEAP labor. Now, go mow my lawn and tell your mother that I have a pet rat that had more litters than she. Let her chew on the "competition."

Please homeboy all the Latin countries despise one another, I mean there is not much different between them. It’s kind of like rivalry France and England, there a lot alike but can’t help but hate one another. Immigrant plight? I guarantee my family is doing better than your fuck up cholo family. All those generations in this country and your family’s only pathetic pride is being some 100 year old broke down neighborhood. I’ve told you cheap labor is being a rent a cholo. Being some broke down ELA cholo family is truly the lowest of the low.

Fucking up your country. Doesn’t your gang fuck up your neighborhood? Never mind, I know you will fail to see the hypocrisy in your statement. Some ELA cholo telling some one else not too fuck shit up. I know ELA is soft but damn. You acting like some elementary school teacher. 500 heroin addicts don't improve a country.

Now most of that cheap labor is done by recent immigrants. My dad did those type of jobs when he got to this country. But unlike your cholo family he progressed. To day he makes a 50,000 dollars a year. Just a normal fine salary, plus what my mom makes, which is like 30 grand. Nothing special not too bad either. And those same recent immigrants like my family was will eventually progress. For sure they will not end up being in that fucked up cycle your family is.

Now my mom only had two kids. BUT YOU MEAN TO TELL ME THAT YOUR PATHETIC ASS HAS A PET RAT? What type of shit is that? To poor to take care of a dog? Damn I’m sure glad I don’t live in ELA. People having pet rats, that is ELA for you, broke and dirty.

Yes many Mexicans have a lot of kids. What’s the other choice? Having 5 or 6 six abortions like your chola homegirls. But in reality your home girls really just did all of us favor didn’t they. Having an abortion every time their man goes to jail makes sense, be happy you got the luck of the draw.

Anyways I’m out of this thread, because I know with your responses I’m only going to be repeating myself. Later bitch.

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StreetKnowledge
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Unread post by StreetKnowledge » June 12th, 2007, 11:34 am

Now my mom only had two kids. BUT YOU MEAN TO TELL ME THAT YOUR PATHETIC ASS HAS A PET RAT? What type of shit is that? To poor to take care of a dog? Damn I’m sure glad I don’t live in ELA. People having pet rats, that is ELA for you, broke and dirty.
LMAO

100
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Unread post by 100 » June 15th, 2007, 9:55 pm

also didnt the black population outnumber the mexican population for years

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Unread post by doja » July 25th, 2007, 5:43 am

blacs and mexicans on a large scale will continue to fued until the differences in the 2 arent so apparent.. both r tribal ppls. its a rough transition but the melding of cultures should in the end actually bring peace. i hate ppl in general cuz all this BS who started some BS dont matter who doin it now? them pink bitches. fuc wut u heard they got the hardest gang in LA nigga. LAPD. im blac i grew up around mexicans long as i can remember. i like mexican food. i like mexican pussy its all good. when i leave cali i get homesic and i be glad to see a mexican nigga when i get bac real shit cuz this my home.

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Unread post by NICKELS » July 26th, 2007, 1:31 am

doja wrote:blacs and mexicans on a large scale will continue to fued until the differences in the 2 arent so apparent.. both r tribal ppls. its a rough transition but the melding of cultures should in the end actually bring peace. i hate ppl in general because all this BS who started some BS dont matter who doin it now? them pink women. fuc wut u heard they got the hardest gang in LA nigga. LAPD. im blac i grew up around mexicans long as i can remember. i like mexican food. i like mexican pussy its all good. when i leave cali i get homesic and i be glad to see a mexican nigga when i get bac real shit because this my home.
HE LIKES MEXICAN PUSSY , LOL ....I HEARD IT LOOKS LIKE A TACO , STANDING UP !!.......JOKING :lol:

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Unread post by doja » July 27th, 2007, 12:09 am

:D

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