Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

These concepts are socially constructed and have been given much weight. What are your thoughts?
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Unread post by Silencioso » July 28th, 2007, 1:07 pm

I don't think blacks ever outnumbered Mexicans in L.A. It's hard to be sure because Mexicans were grouped as white until the 70's and the stats on the Mexican-American population from earlier decades aren't reliable. I think the two populations were close in number until the 70's. By the mid 80's, Mexicans were definately the biggest.

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Unread post by shadow » July 29th, 2007, 8:10 am

Silencioso wrote:It's hard to be sure because Mexicans were grouped as white until the 70's
do you have a link with more info on this? i always thought it was interesting if you look at those most wanted lists like from the fbi, the hispanics they put white as their race. that's the only place i've ever really seen that.

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Unread post by one1hype » August 8th, 2007, 11:50 pm

no matter what blood or crip or criminals hood your from, even if bloods and crips formed together to get rid of mexicans...they would never succeed even though blacks are bigger in body size ...reason y is cuz the mexican mafia would never allow it...mexicans have already started taking over compton...im talking about hoods being deep...and people dont fight no more they kill with guns...and mexicans have such a hate rage againgst blacks...mexican mafias gang the surenos have the deepest hoods in california no matter what reason y is cuz all the illegals and immagrants get recruited in...

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Unread post by one1hype » August 8th, 2007, 11:52 pm

shadow wrote:
Silencioso wrote:It's hard to be sure because Mexicans were grouped as white until the 70's
do you have a link with more info on this? i always thought it was interesting if you look at those most wanted lists like from the fbi, the hispanics they put white as their race. that's the only place i've ever really seen that.

yeah mexicans were classified as white...cuz back then it was a twist...they classified race by your hair...if you had curly hair you were black...if you had straight (mexicans than you were white...it was a confusing time...but many mexicans have white spanish bloods in them also...and not all are dark...najera from the nba is pale as a ghost and is mexican

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Unread post by chickymoreno » August 18th, 2007, 5:39 pm

on a side note, as far as the history of zoot suits go, Filipinos were some of the first to introduce the zoot suit to America. This is documented. We had our own flavor to it. We also have a long history of gangbanging in America. I'm speaking on the real ones, the ones who keep it true, the originals, not the youngsters out there claiming something that ain't theirs and giving our people a bad name. We ain't the first but we're a part of history. My point is, everybody has contributed in some way to the gangbanging culture as we know it today. Somewhere along the line, certain people from all sides twisted it up. Corporate America also twisted stuff up as well. ONE LUV to the real ones from all sides.

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Unread post by NICKELS » August 19th, 2007, 12:34 am

chickymoreno wrote:on a side note, as far as the history of zoot suits go, Filipinos were some of the first to introduce the zoot suit to America. This is documented. We had our own flavor to it. We also have a long history of gangbanging in America. I'm speaking on the real ones, the ones who keep it true, the originals, not the youngsters out there claiming something that ain't theirs and giving our people a bad name. We ain't the first but we're a part of history. My point is, everybody has contributed in some way to the gangbanging culture as we know it today. Somewhere along the line, certain people from all sides twisted it up. Corporate America also twisted stuff up as well. ONE LUV to the real ones from all sides.
HERE WE GO ANOTHER , PERSON OF ANOTHER RACE , CLAIMING THERE PEOPLE HAD STYLE AND WAS HIP !!!!!!!!!

WHAT A FUCKING JOKE ........SHOW ME ONE HIP , COOL MUTHA FUCHA BEFORE BLACK PEOPLE , WE INVENTED THIS SHYT ,

ANYTHING COOL , HIP , FLY , PIMP STYLE , WALK ,TALK, DRESS ,HANDSHAKE ,LEAN ,STRUT, ATTITUDE , MUSIC , DANCE ......& LIFESTYLE STARTED WITH BLACKS

EARLY 1900'S

NOW GO CHECK YOUR PEOPLES PICTURES AND RECORDS FROM THEN TO NOW , AND GO LOOK HOW GOOFY AND ETHNIC THEY LOOK IN THOSE PHOTOS .............FROM THERE COUNTRIES , AND CHECK THE INFLUENCE WE HAD ON EVERYBODY AND WHAT THEY STOLE OR BORROWED FROM US .BE HONEST !

EVERY TIME YOU GIVE A FIVE OR DAP OR TRICK HAND SHAKE , THATS BECAUSE OF BLACKS , ..FOR EXAMPLE !!

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Unread post by ~J~ » August 29th, 2007, 2:35 am

NICKELS wrote: HERE WE GO ANOTHER , PERSON OF ANOTHER RACE , CLAIMING THERE PEOPLE HAD STYLE AND WAS HIP !!!!!!!!!

WHAT A #%@&#%@ JOKE ........SHOW ME ONE HIP , COOL MUTHA FUCHA BEFORE BLACK PEOPLE , WE INVENTED THIS SHYT ,

ANYTHING COOL , HIP , FLY , PIMP STYLE , WALK ,TALK, DRESS ,HANDSHAKE ,LEAN ,STRUT, ATTITUDE , MUSIC , DANCE ......& LIFESTYLE STARTED WITH BLACKS

EARLY 1900'S

NOW GO CHECK YOUR PEOPLES PICTURES AND RECORDS FROM THEN TO NOW , AND GO LOOK HOW GOOFY AND ETHNIC THEY LOOK IN THOSE PHOTOS .............FROM THERE COUNTRIES , AND CHECK THE INFLUENCE WE HAD ON EVERYBODY AND WHAT THEY STOLE OR BORROWED FROM US .BE HONEST !

EVERY TIME YOU GIVE A FIVE OR DAP OR TRICK HAND SHAKE , THATS BECAUSE OF BLACKS , ..FOR EXAMPLE !!
^^^^ :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: ^^^^

You're alway pulling this number, stop with the condescending attitude towards other ----> Ethnicities/Races with your egocentrism opinion :!:

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Unread post by flachill » August 29th, 2007, 10:09 am

I DONT GANGBANG STREETS IN MY BLOOD/ IM QUICK TO BLOODY A CRIP AND CRIPPLE A BLOOD. THESE NIGGAS AINT WORTHY OF LOVE...

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Unread post by flachill » August 29th, 2007, 10:40 am

NICKELS IS SO FULL OF SHIT.. .NA MAN IT AINT ABOUT WHAT RACE STARTED WHAT CAUSE EVERYBODY EVERY WHERE IS INFLUENCED BY ANOTHER AND THAT CROSSES COLOR BOUNDARIES,....THATS A HUMAN THING WERE ALL CHILDREN OF GOD
IVE LOOKED UP TO WHITE MEN, BLACK MEN , LATINO YOU NAME IT THERE HAVE BEEN PEOPLE IN MY LIFE THAT IVE LOOKED UP TO AND RESPECTED, SO FOR NICKELS TO SIT HERE AND ACT LIKE HE AINT INFLUENCED BY ANY OTHER PEOPLE BESIDES BLACKS IS A STRAIGHT UP LIE,

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Unread post by jesuschrist » September 10th, 2007, 8:42 pm

TheReal wrote:
Old Shatterhand wrote:I'll say that the do-rag (a simple piece of cloth tied at the back used to cover the head) was in use from the 1930s to the 1960s by African American men to hold chemically processed hair-dos in place while they slept and that originally they were made from pieces of handkerchief, bandannas, or women's stockings (now they are made from polyester).

But the first gangs in this country to fly a common colored bandana were the cowboy gangs of the 1800's such as the one that the Earps finally put an end to. Also there were union men in the coal strikes who wore red bandanas around their necks and arms as part of an informal uniform.

As for modern streetgangs in Southern California flying red and blue, the Mexicans were flying bandanas in the joint in the fifites and on the streets in the sixties, despite what a single correctional officer (there are over 30,000 correctional officers in the state) said about the facility he worked in, and Mexicans had certainly worn them in the fields before that.

And research is still being conducted but it appears some gangs, such as Maravilla may date back further than the 1920s.
I thought the Maravilla gang only goes back to the 30's?

Furthermore, I have pictures of my relatives from my mother's side of the family, namely my great grandfather, who in a photo, taken in 1914, was wearing a dark bandanna headkerchief. I couldn't tell whether or not it was blue, black, or red, seeing as how the photo was in black and white.

Now in regards to mexicans wearing rags back in the sixties and fifties, as well as in the fields before that-I did stress in my post that everyone, including white folks, who were going to wear bandannas, were only going to wear bandannas that were either blue, or red, because these were the only colors available at the time. My relatives, who were field worker in the thirties, forties and fifties, would sport either a blue, or red bandanna, but they would mostly wear hats over these bandannas.

I also have photos of relatives, who would sport bandannas, either blue, or red, to maintain their process, which you were correct about.

Moreover, just check out any old photos of slaves, and you will see them wearing headkerchiefs, and the like.

But anyways, the point of me highlighting the bandanna thing, was to place emphasis on when this item (the bandanna) became a gang identifier. Mexicans in the Cali penal system, during the 50's and 60's, may have sported the bandanna, but did they sport it as a gang identifier, or did they just sport it, just to be sporting it?
its FUNNY TO ME-BLACKS GIVE CREDIT TO MEXICANS FOR NOTHING-TRUTH IS YALL ARE IMITATORS AND JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING IN BLACK CULTURE IN LA AND THE USA CAN BE TRACED TO CHICANOS AND OUR HOODS-ALL THESE POPULAR THEMES OF THUG NIGGA AND PIMPING AND CRIPS AND BLOODS ALL CAME FROM MEXICAN CULTURE-WHITE FENCE AND A 38TH STREET ARE ABOUT A 100 YRS OLD-BLACKS AT THAT TIEM WERENT EVEN ALLOWED TO THINK FOR THEMSLEVES-THEY WERE STILL GETTING LYNCHED AND NOW THEY WANNA CLAIM OURS!LOL-----YEA MEXICANS REALLY COPIED BLACKS BACK IN THE 20-30Z...PSSS! THE WORST THING TO BE IN THAT TIME WAS BLACK SO WHY WOULD A CHICANO WANT TO COPY ANYTHING FROM A BLACK?IT WOULD SEEM THE OPPOSITE TO MOST-CUZ ALTHOUGH CHICANOS WERENT THOUGHT OF HIGHLY THEY IN THE EYES OF AMERICA.....AT THE LEAST WERENT BLACK!SURENOS ARE THE OLDEST LIVING STANDING GANG IN AMERICA.......NOT JUST CALI-ANY BLACK PERSON WHO HAS EVER BEEN TO PRISON CAN ATTEST TO THE MOUNDS OF OLD GANGSTER ASS MEXICANS IN THE PEN-IN THEIR LATE 70-AND SOME EVEN 80-WHO HAVE THE WHITE FENCE AND CANTA RANAS TATTED ALL OVER THEM--NAME ONE MODERN DAY BLACK GANG WITH A HISTORY LIKE THAT?CREaSING YOUR KHAKIS-SHAVING YOUR HEADS-SPORTING HOOD TATTS-OLD ENGLISH-LOCS-EVERYTHING THAT BLACKS HAVE IN AMERICA CAME FROM US!THE #1 REASON WE CHCIANOS AND BLACKS WILL NEVER GET ALONG IS BECUZ WE WANT NOTHING FROM YOU-AMERICAN CULTURE HAS COME TO PORTRAY HIP HOP AND BLACK AMERICANA AS POPULAR BUT MANY MANY MOST MEXICANS LOOK AT IT AND WANT TO VOMIT-

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Unread post by ~J~ » September 10th, 2007, 8:58 pm

jesuschrist wrote:its FUNNY TO ME-BLACKS GIVE CREDIT TO MEXICANS FOR NOTHING-TRUTH IS YALL ARE IMITATORS AND JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING IN BLACK CULTURE IN LA AND THE USA CAN BE TRACED TO CHICANOS AND OUR HOODS-ALL THESE POPULAR THEMES OF THUG NIGGA AND PIMPING AND CRIPS AND BLOODS ALL CAME FROM MEXICAN CULTURE-WHITE FENCE AND A 38TH STREET ARE ABOUT A 100 YRS OLD-BLACKS AT THAT TIEM WERENT EVEN ALLOWED TO THINK FOR THEMSLEVES-THEY WERE STILL GETTING LYNCHED AND NOW THEY WANNA CLAIM OURS!LOL-----YEA MEXICANS REALLY COPIED BLACKS BACK IN THE 20-30Z...PSSS! THE WORST THING TO BE IN THAT TIME WAS BLACK SO WHY WOULD A CHICANO WANT TO COPY ANYTHING FROM A BLACK?IT WOULD SEEM THE OPPOSITE TO MOST-because ALTHOUGH CHICANOS WERENT THOUGHT OF HIGHLY THEY IN THE EYES OF AMERICA.....AT THE LEAST WERENT BLACK!SURENOS ARE THE OLDEST LIVING STANDING GANG IN AMERICA.......NOT JUST CALI-ANY BLACK PERSON WHO HAS EVER BEEN TO PRISON CAN ATTEST TO THE MOUNDS OF OLD GANGSTER ASS MEXICANS IN THE PEN-IN THEIR LATE 70-AND SOME EVEN 80-WHO HAVE THE WHITE FENCE AND CANTA RANAS TATTED ALL OVER THEM--NAME ONE MODERN DAY BLACK GANG WITH A HISTORY LIKE THAT?CREaSING YOUR KHAKIS-SHAVING YOUR HEADS-SPORTING HOOD TATTS-OLD ENGLISH-LOCS-EVERYTHING THAT BLACKS HAVE IN AMERICA CAME FROM US!THE #1 REASON WE CHCIANOS AND BLACKS WILL NEVER GET ALONG IS BECUZ WE WANT NOTHING FROM YOU-AMERICAN CULTURE HAS COME TO PORTRAY HIP HOP AND BLACK AMERICANA AS POPULAR BUT MANY MANY MOST MEXICANS LOOK AT IT AND WANT TO VOMIT-
Come on man, you're pulling the stay number NICKELS does all the time. everyone brings something to the table, the fact is... this is the US and all Americanized people are influenced by other Ethnicities/Races. although I'm bias as to how Chicanos should represent themselves, it didn't blind me to Black folks and others contributions.

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Unread post by jesuschrist » September 10th, 2007, 9:08 pm

TheReal wrote:He said:

Now I know a pachuco, older than dirt, from Los Angeles (his son in law was a real old skool veterano from Varrio Grape 60's and 70's era back when the Latinos and the Blacks were all in one gang there) whose father ran with Tin Tan (Germán Valdés) in Juarez and he told me straight out that Tin Tan made the Mexican American Pachucos famous in Mexico and that the Pachuko style did NOT orginate there.

My response:

I know it didn't...


He said:

Furthermore, they spoke caló which was a mixture of Spanish and English based on the lingo of Mexican immigrants to America as a result of the Mexican Revolutionary War.


My response:

I never denied this, but at the same time, pachucos/cholos, and mexicans/chicanos in general, have incorporated ebonics and black slang into their speech....

He said:

Now Gibby and others argued endlessly with The Real about all of this a few years ago and the discussion got deep. It caused me to seek out and ask some of these remaining Mexican Pachucos (including some of the migratory pachucos that were hopping trains working fields in different locations) what the story was. They told me that the Pachuco manner of dress and style originated in El Paso, Texas and moved westward, following the line of migration of Mexican railroad workers ("traqueros") into Los Angeles, where it developed further.

My response:

I'm familiar with this revisionist historical interpretation, but they have to remember that pachuco culture just wasn't about dress, but attitude, and other sundry cultural textures.

For example, what music did the pachucos listen to and vibe off of-NORTENOS AND MARIACHI? Or did pachucos listen to jazz and swing music, and perform popular dances that were inspired by black art forms?

The style of dress (zoot suits), the music, the slang, the walk, and much of their demeanor, gestures and mannerisms, can find a direct correlation to those black jazz musicians back east, and in the midwest, who performed all across the country-INCLUDING TEXAS!

Furthermore, saying that the zoot suit style originated amongst the pachucos, in Texas, is like me saying that Chicano Rap started in L.A., amongst the mexicans, only to spread out and influence other mexicans to engage in such an art form, throughout the southwest, therefore rap/hip-hop music, or west coast gangsta rap music, originated with mexicans in L.A.-IT JUST DOESN'T COMPUTE!

Why? Because we all know (or should know) that black folks created rap/hip-hop music, back east, before their brethren out west picked up on it, only for mexicans to inevitably pick up on it out west, from the blacks who lived out west, whereby they (mexicans) spread this specific genre (chicano rap) to other mexicans across the country, and possibly, around the world.

The same analogy applies to the pachucos and zoot culture, which included not only the duds, but the music, the dances, and overall culture-MUCH OF WHICH CAME FROM BLACK FOLKS DURING THE TIME!

He said:

Now I also have reason to believe, based on my research, that to some extent (and here's where a point of argumentation lies between the Latinos and the Blacks) that the black performers, who were dressing sharp in the era after the turn of the century, influenced this.

My response:

They did.

He said:

Cholo style is a different discussion (which I'm sure we'll have... lol) and bandanas were first sported by Southern Mexicans in the prisons in the fifties (the only railroad rag available at the time with the red rag becoming available later in the prisons), taken in the late 1950s by La Eme, and worn on the streets in the 60's (which I saw with my own eyes).

My response:

The question I posed to you originally was akin to-DID THE SURS SPORT THESE RAGS AS GANG IDENTIFERS, OR WERE THEY SPORTED BECAUSE OF CULTURAL REASONS, OUTSIDE OF THAT WHICH IS REFERRED TO AS HOODLUM GEAR?

You see, as I said before, my folks sported blue and red rags, back during this timeframe, when they use to work out in the fields. I have an old album of blues musicians from Angola prison in Louisiana, with many on the cover, wearing bandannas, but that doesn't mean that these bandannas were affilliated with any criminal organization, or gang structure.

Mexicans have alway worn bandannas, whether they be blue, or red, but did they extol them as significant gang identifers, similar to the crips, or the bloods, and make them their banners, back in the day, similar to the crips and the bloods from the early 70's, all the way to the late 90's-NO THEY DID NOT!

I remember eses from back in the day, both north and south, and so did you, and you can't tell me that they use to tog themselves down in blue gear, with the blue rag, similar to how they do today, which was how black gangs rolled back in the day. Now mind you, I may not be able to remember the 50's, but I damn sure remember the 70's onward.

He said:


Nortenos didn't fly red until after 1968 (the year Nuestra Familia formed at Tracy). Interestingly, when I've asked them about it they said the red flag is in memory of Ceaser Chavez.

My response:

That may be true, however, I knew nortenos from the 70's (I'm originally from Oakland), who would sport the blue rag, which ties into my thesis, and other folks thesis, that the red and blue rag distinguishing the north and south, occured in the late 70's.

Then again, you may be right on this one...

He said:

You have to understand that Raymond Washington, a 15 year-old student at Fremont High School who started what would later become known as the Crips in 1969, wasn't even on the map when Surenos were flying blue rags. I mean Nuestra Familia was flying red before Raymond Washington ever flew a blue rag. And the bloods flew red after the crips flew blue.

My response:

Again, the surs back in the day, and at least during my day (speaking from the 70's on), may have SPORTED the blue bandanna, but they damn sure didn't FLY the blue rag, similar to what the crips did back in the day, and on up to the late 90's, which is a difference.

I remember cholos from L.A., back in the mid 80's, when I really became aware, who would diss black gang bangers, for going all crazy OVER COLORS!!!! And mind you, these same cholo cats weren't dressed in blue, or togged down in blue, but rather aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllll of the cholos back in the day-TOGGED DOWN IN EARTH TONE COLORS, TO DISTINGUISH THEMSELVES FROM THE CRIPS, AND YOU KNOW THIS!

Not only that, up north, NORTENOS WEREN'T SPORTING RED GEAR! Again, I'll repeat-NORTENOS WEREN'T SPORTING READ GEAR, especially in places like Oakland, San Jose (yeah man, because of my childhood, I lived all throughout Cali).

Don't get me wrong, my memory does allow me to remember surenos during the mid to late 80's, sporting blue bandannas, but guess what? THAT WAS THE ONLY BLUE ON THEM (besides blue slacks maybe, which you began to see more or in the early 90's, by mexican bangers)! And you know what else? My memory also allows me to remember nortenos in Oakland sporting red bandannas, but guess what? THAT WAS THE ONLY THING ON THEM THAT WAS RED!

And you know what else? THESE SURS AND NORTENOS, BUT ESPECIALLY SURS, DIDN'T FLY THE RED, OR THE BLUE, AS A BANNER, THE WAY MODERN SURS DO TODAY, WHICH THEY GOT FROM CRIP CULTURE-which is a difference, than sporting it.

Hell, I remember seeing cholos and surs, in L.A back in the day, without blue bandannas, but just themselves, representing.

So naw man, I hear what you're saying, and I respect your age and all, but even though I'm not as old as you are, I still can remember enough, to get a gauge on how things were, back in the day...
THERES BEEN ALOT O DISCUSSION ON THE BANDANA THEORY AND THE REAL SAID SOMETHING THAT I THOUGHT WAS TRUE TO THE CORE-LATINOS DID NOT SPORT A BLUE RAG TO IDENTIY OURSELVES OUT HERE IN LA-BECAUSE IN CONTRATS TO BLOODS AND CRIPS WE ARE NOT IN THE SAME AREAS AS NORTENOS AND THERD BE NO REASON TO FLY BLUE-WHEN THE COLOR OF EVRY GANG (CHICANO)IS BLUE!YOU HAVE SOME GANGS SURENOS WHO WEAR RED LIKE CYPRESS BUT THEY ARE THE RARITY-MOST SURENOS WILL NEVER IN THEIR LIFE EVRY DO A DRIVEBY ON A NORTENO OR EVER MEET ONE UNLESS THEY HAPPEN TO CHANCE UPON PRISON-BLOODS AND CRIPS HOWEVER DID COPY THE CHICANO STYLE OF WEARING A COLORED RAG TO IDENTIFY GANG AFFILIATION-BUT THEY JSUT BROUGHT IT TO A WHOLE NEW LEVEL-YES CHICANOS WORE KHAKI TYPE COLORS TO DIFFERENTUATE THEMSELVES FROM BLACKS AS THEY STILL DO!HOW MANY SURENOS-REALLY -IN LA SPORT BLUED OUT TO REPRESENT THE SUR?SHOOT EVERY CHICANO HOOD FROM SAN DIEGO TO FRSNO IS SURENO-AND MOST SURENOS BEEF WITH SURENOS-A NORTE IS A PRISON ENEMY-PRISON ENEMY!AND REALLY NOT EVEN A PRISON ENEMY THAT IS TOOKEN SERIOUSLY-ALL TEH HYPE OF A SUR AND NORTE WAR IS BALONEY!!MOST PRISONS CONTAIN NORTENOS AND SURENOS AND THEY BOTH DO THEIR OWN POLITICKING -BUT NORTE IS CONSIDERED A JOKE BY SUR AND NOT WORTHY OF ENEMY STATUS-BLACK-AFRICAN AMERICANS ARE FAR AND LARGE THE SURS BIGGEST ENEMY AND MOST HATED RIVAL!AND EVERYTHING TAHT CAN BE DONE WILL BE DONE TO DIFFERINTE US FROM THEM--WHETHER IT BE TO SHANK SOMEONE FOR TAKING A CHIP FROM A BLACK TO PLACING A NO-RAP MUSIC BAN ON ALL SURENO CELLS(AN ACTIVE ORDER IN MOST CALI PENS).....CHICANO RAP WHAT A JOKE!ITS LOUSY PATHETIC AND A COPY-OF BLACK CULTURE WHICH IS WHY MOST OLD SKOOL SURENOS DONT LIKE IT-

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Unread post by ~J~ » September 10th, 2007, 10:56 pm

jesuschrist wrote:THERES BEEN ALOT O DISCUSSION ON THE BANDANA THEORY AND THE REAL SAID SOMETHING THAT I THOUGHT WAS TRUE TO THE CORE-LATINOS DID NOT SPORT A BLUE RAG TO IDENTIY OURSELVES OUT HERE IN LA-BECAUSE IN CONTRATS TO BLOODS AND CRIPS WE ARE NOT IN THE SAME AREAS AS NORTENOS AND THERD BE NO REASON TO FLY BLUE-WHEN THE COLOR OF EVRY GANG (CHICANO)IS BLUE!
Second that.
YOU HAVE SOME GANGS SURENOS WHO WEAR RED LIKE CYPRESS BUT THEY ARE THE RARITY-MOST SURENOS WILL NEVER IN THEIR LIFE EVRY DO A DRIVEBY ON A NORTENO OR EVER MEET ONE UNLESS THEY HAPPEN TO CHANCE UPON PRISON
The up North Surenos get into with Nortenos all the time, there's even some real SoCal varrios that have established varrios up North. you must be talking about SoCal Surenos. Bakersfield in the Southern Central Valley maybe there's real Nortenos and Surenos mixing it up there but it's still not SoCal per se.
-BLOODS AND CRIPS HOWEVER DID COPY THE CHICANO STYLE OF WEARING A COLORED RAG TO IDENTIFY GANG AFFILIATION-BUT THEY JSUT BROUGHT IT TO A WHOLE NEW LEVEL-YES CHICANOS WORE KHAKI TYPE COLORS TO DIFFERENTUATE THEMSELVES FROM BLACKS AS THEY STILL DO!HOW MANY SURENOS-REALLY -IN LA SPORT BLUED OUT TO REPRESENT THE SUR?
I believe, especially in the 80's, Bloods and Crips were influence probably the more be Chicanos at that time with regards to gangs California, but Blacks did it with their own twist and demeanor.
SHOOT EVERY CHICANO HOOD FROM SAN DIEGO TO FRSNO IS SURENO
I thought the Bulldogs had Frenso on lock. Tulare county is Norteno turf and it's between Fresno and Bakersfield. :shock: :lol:
-AND MOST SURENOS BEEF WITH SURENOS-A NORTE IS A PRISON ENEMY-PRISON ENEMY!AND REALLY NOT EVEN A PRISON ENEMY THAT IS TOOKEN SERIOUSLY-ALL TEH HYPE OF A SUR AND NORTE WAR IS BALONEY!!MOST PRISONS CONTAIN NORTENOS AND SURENOS AND THEY BOTH DO THEIR OWN POLITICKING -BUT NORTE IS CONSIDERED A JOKE BY SUR AND NOT WORTHY OF ENEMY STATUS-BLACK-AFRICAN AMERICANS ARE FAR AND LARGE THE SURS BIGGEST ENEMY AND MOST HATED RIVAL!AND EVERYTHING TAHT CAN BE DONE WILL BE DONE TO DIFFERINTE US FROM THEM--WHETHER IT BE TO SHANK SOMEONE FOR TAKING A CHIP FROM A BLACK TO PLACING A NO-RAP MUSIC BAN ON ALL SURENO CELLS(AN ACTIVE ORDER IN MOST CALI PENS).....CHICANO RAP WHAT A JOKE!ITS LOUSY PATHETIC AND A COPY-OF BLACK CULTURE WHICH IS WHY MOST OLD SKOOL SURENOS DONT LIKE IT-
Well, it does seem that Blacks are the Southeners worse enemies nowadays, maybe because Blacks not Nortenos live in SoCal and the Mafia wants to control the streets = $$$.

Okay, you've got to be kidding with regards to the Southern vs. Nothern Soldiers, that's a 40 year old bloody history, maybe things are not as intense nowadays but both sides have pushed a lot of weight and took a lot of loses.

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Unread post by TERMYTE12 » September 11th, 2007, 12:20 pm

blacks gangs have been influnced by mexicans/chicano gangs since way back in the days...what do you think the word LOC means...oh yeah its short for loco...and the tatoos...blacks always had the stupidest lamest block letter fugly tats ever...untill the Nortontos started swinging from the black mans nuts...and then all of a sudden these foos started getting ESE STYLE tatoos...even when i was in Soledad the blacks would get their patterns from the busters...or by looking at the homies (south siders) tats and copying their style, size,and body location...ASKING STUPID QUESTIONS LIKE "A ESE WHAT STYLE ARE THOSE LETTERS?"even black gang names were coppied from us SURENOS...thats why you have chico from r90's, diablo from 83gc...because them wack ass names like baby toenail, footpowder,skull,were stupid...so once again in order to seem gangster they had to borrow some style and lingo from the BROWN...the only thing mexicans try to do like blacks is rap...because yeah thats their shit...but everything they rap about...lowriders,dickies,chuck taylors, can all be traced to the raza...KEEP IT REAL BLACK FOLKS...MOST BLACKS WISH THEY WERE ANOTHER RACE...SO WHY THE FUCK WOULD ANYBODY OF ANOTHER RACE WANT TO BE BLACK...YOU'RE ALL ENTERTAINMENT...WE WILL TALK AND ACT LIKE WE'RE BLACK TO CLOWN...BECAUSE WE DONT GIVE A FUCK...THE N WORD, CUZ,BLOOD.SLOB, ALL THAT SHIT BE GETTING CLOWNED IN THE BRRIO EVERY DAY...KEEP IT REAL SUCKA BLOW FISHES...TERMYTE EXS 12ST LOKOS SUR

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Unread post by Young Deuce » September 11th, 2007, 1:45 pm

TERMYTE12 wrote:blacks gangs have been influnced by mexicans/chicano gangs since way back in the days...what do you think the word LOC means...oh yeah its short for loco...and the tatoos...blacks always had the stupidest lamest block letter fugly tats ever...untill the Nortontos started swinging from the black mans nuts...and then all of a sudden these foos started getting ESE STYLE tatoos...even when i was in Soledad the blacks would get their patterns from the busters...or by looking at the homies (south siders) tats and copying their style, size,and body location...ASKING STUPID QUESTIONS LIKE "A ESE WHAT STYLE ARE THOSE LETTERS?"even black gang names were coppied from us SURENOS...thats why you have chico from r90's, diablo from 83gc...because them wack ass names like baby toenail, footpowder,skull,were stupid...so once again in order to seem gangster they had to borrow some style and lingo from the BROWN...the only thing mexicans try to do like blacks is rap...because yeah thats their shit...but everything they rap about...lowriders,dickies,chuck taylors, can all be traced to the raza...KEEP IT REAL BLACK FOLKS...MOST BLACKS WISH THEY WERE ANOTHER RACE...SO WHY THE fu-- WOULD ANYBODY OF ANOTHER RACE WANT TO BE BLACK...YOU'RE ALL ENTERTAINMENT...WE WILL TALK AND ACT LIKE WE'RE BLACK TO CLOWN...BECAUSE WE DONT GIVE A fu--...THE N WORD, because,BLOOD.SLOB, ALL THAT SHIT BE GETTING CLOWNED IN THE BRRIO EVERY DAY...KEEP IT REAL SUCKA BLOW FISHES...TERMYTE EXS 12ST LOKOS SUR
good job on postin a dumb ass coment on 9/11.....lmao

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Unread post by TERMYTE12 » September 11th, 2007, 2:15 pm

[quote="Young Deuce"][/quote]

good job on postin a dumb ass coment on 9/11.....lmao[/quote]YOUR MOMMAS A DUMB ASS COMMENT

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Unread post by Young Deuce » September 11th, 2007, 2:52 pm

TERMYTE12 wrote:
Young Deuce wrote:
good job on postin a dumb ass coment on 9/11.....lmao
YOUR MOMMAS A DUMB ASS COMMENT[/quote]

put my head down on that reply....

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Unread post by jesuschrist » September 24th, 2007, 6:38 pm

Young Deuce wrote:
TERMYTE12 wrote:
Young Deuce wrote:
good job on postin a dumb ass coment on 9/11.....lmao
YOUR MOMMAS A DUMB ASS COMMENT
put my head down on that reply....[/quote]TRUTH IS BLACKS CULTURE TODAY IN AMERICA IS BORROWED FROM CHICANOS -BIG TIME!TO THE HOOD TATTS AND THROWING UP THE WEST SIDE IT ALL CAME FROM US -WE ARE THE ONES WHO ROCK THE STYLE AND THEN THEY FOLLOW SUIT -WE IN THE 90S CAME UP WITH OUR OWN WAY OF DRESS THAT THEY IMITATED---WE LISTENED TO TECHNO -DID GARFFITI-FORMED TAGGER CREWS THAT THEY MIMICKED(KWS) AND WERE ON OUR OWN TRIP-YES WE LOVED BOYS TO MEN -TUPAC-OLDIES-BUT ALOT OF THE POPULAR BLACK CULTURE CAME FROM OUR SWAGGER-CREASING YOUR CLOTHES-BANGING-FAT LACES-WEARING OLD PUMAS-AND THROWING UP YOUR AREA CODE ARE ALL CHICANO THINGS---I RMEBER HOW WHEN WED GET 213 ON US TATTED THE NIGGAS WOULD BE LIKE HEY ESE? WHAT THAT MEAN?WHY DONT YA GET YOUR WHOLE PHONE NUMBER ON YOU?LOL!NOW THEY WRITE SONGS ABOUT IT-EVEN TODAY TO THIS DAM DAY --MEXICANS DO THEIR OWN THING ---LOOK AT ALL THE MEXICAN KIDS BRINGING BACK SKATEBOARDING AND WEARING BANGS AND CHECKERED VANS AND HEAVY METAL SHIRTS....SHIT I GUESS BLACKS WILL EVENTUALLLY SAY WE ARE COPYING THEM AGAIN!! THE FINEST CLOTHES IN MEXICANS RIGHT NOW ARE ABERCROMBIE AND FITCH AND VANS AND ADDIDDAS DONT HAVE SHIT TO DO WITH NIGGAS !

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Unread post by jesuschrist » September 24th, 2007, 6:41 pm

NICKELS wrote:
doja wrote:blacs and mexicans on a large scale will continue to fued until the differences in the 2 arent so apparent.. both r tribal ppls. its a rough transition but the melding of cultures should in the end actually bring peace. i hate ppl in general because all this BS who started some BS dont matter who doin it now? them pink women. fuc wut u heard they got the hardest gang in LA nigga. LAPD. im blac i grew up around mexicans long as i can remember. i like mexican food. i like mexican pussy its all good. when i leave cali i get homesic and i be glad to see a mexican nigga when i get bac real shit because this my home.
HE LIKES MEXICAN PUSSY , LOL ....I HEARD IT LOOKS LIKE A TACO , STANDING UP !!.......JOKING :lol:
BOY IF YOU FROM LA YOU WOULD NEVER SAY THAT!CUZ WE KNOW CHICANAS ARE OFF THE HOOK-SHIT I SEEN MORE FINE LATINAS AT ONE NIGHT IN BELL GARDENS AT THE STORE THEN I HAVE EVER SEEN BLACK WOMEN -PERIOD!AND THAT AINT HATING

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Unread post by bgpride1 » January 6th, 2008, 12:57 am

jesuschrist wrote:
TheReal wrote:He said:

Now I know a pachuco, older than dirt, from Los Angeles (his son in law was a real old skool veterano from Varrio Grape 60's and 70's era back when the Latinos and the Blacks were all in one gang there) whose father ran with Tin Tan (Germán Valdés) in Juarez and he told me straight out that Tin Tan made the Mexican American Pachucos famous in Mexico and that the Pachuko style did NOT orginate there.

My response:

I know it didn't...


He said:

Furthermore, they spoke caló which was a mixture of Spanish and English based on the lingo of Mexican immigrants to America as a result of the Mexican Revolutionary War.


My response:

I never denied this, but at the same time, pachucos/cholos, and mexicans/chicanos in general, have incorporated ebonics and black slang into their speech....

He said:

Now Gibby and others argued endlessly with The Real about all of this a few years ago and the discussion got deep. It caused me to seek out and ask some of these remaining Mexican Pachucos (including some of the migratory pachucos that were hopping trains working fields in different locations) what the story was. They told me that the Pachuco manner of dress and style originated in El Paso, Texas and moved westward, following the line of migration of Mexican railroad workers ("traqueros") into Los Angeles, where it developed further.

My response:

I'm familiar with this revisionist historical interpretation, but they have to remember that pachuco culture just wasn't about dress, but attitude, and other sundry cultural textures.

For example, what music did the pachucos listen to and vibe off of-NORTENOS AND MARIACHI? Or did pachucos listen to jazz and swing music, and perform popular dances that were inspired by black art forms?

The style of dress (zoot suits), the music, the slang, the walk, and much of their demeanor, gestures and mannerisms, can find a direct correlation to those black jazz musicians back east, and in the midwest, who performed all across the country-INCLUDING TEXAS!

Furthermore, saying that the zoot suit style originated amongst the pachucos, in Texas, is like me saying that Chicano Rap started in L.A., amongst the mexicans, only to spread out and influence other mexicans to engage in such an art form, throughout the southwest, therefore rap/hip-hop music, or west coast gangsta rap music, originated with mexicans in L.A.-IT JUST DOESN'T COMPUTE!

Why? Because we all know (or should know) that black folks created rap/hip-hop music, back east, before their brethren out west picked up on it, only for mexicans to inevitably pick up on it out west, from the blacks who lived out west, whereby they (mexicans) spread this specific genre (chicano rap) to other mexicans across the country, and possibly, around the world.

The same analogy applies to the pachucos and zoot culture, which included not only the duds, but the music, the dances, and overall culture-MUCH OF WHICH CAME FROM BLACK FOLKS DURING THE TIME!

He said:

Now I also have reason to believe, based on my research, that to some extent (and here's where a point of argumentation lies between the Latinos and the Blacks) that the black performers, who were dressing sharp in the era after the turn of the century, influenced this.

My response:

They did.

He said:

Cholo style is a different discussion (which I'm sure we'll have... lol) and bandanas were first sported by Southern Mexicans in the prisons in the fifties (the only railroad rag available at the time with the red rag becoming available later in the prisons), taken in the late 1950s by La Eme, and worn on the streets in the 60's (which I saw with my own eyes).

My response:

The question I posed to you originally was akin to-DID THE SURS SPORT THESE RAGS AS GANG IDENTIFERS, OR WERE THEY SPORTED BECAUSE OF CULTURAL REASONS, OUTSIDE OF THAT WHICH IS REFERRED TO AS HOODLUM GEAR?

You see, as I said before, my folks sported blue and red rags, back during this timeframe, when they use to work out in the fields. I have an old album of blues musicians from Angola prison in Louisiana, with many on the cover, wearing bandannas, but that doesn't mean that these bandannas were affilliated with any criminal organization, or gang structure.

Mexicans have alway worn bandannas, whether they be blue, or red, but did they extol them as significant gang identifers, similar to the crips, or the bloods, and make them their banners, back in the day, similar to the crips and the bloods from the early 70's, all the way to the late 90's-NO THEY DID NOT!

I remember eses from back in the day, both north and south, and so did you, and you can't tell me that they use to tog themselves down in blue gear, with the blue rag, similar to how they do today, which was how black gangs rolled back in the day. Now mind you, I may not be able to remember the 50's, but I damn sure remember the 70's onward.

He said:


Nortenos didn't fly red until after 1968 (the year Nuestra Familia formed at Tracy). Interestingly, when I've asked them about it they said the red flag is in memory of Ceaser Chavez.

My response:

That may be true, however, I knew nortenos from the 70's (I'm originally from Oakland), who would sport the blue rag, which ties into my thesis, and other folks thesis, that the red and blue rag distinguishing the north and south, occured in the late 70's.

Then again, you may be right on this one...

He said:

You have to understand that Raymond Washington, a 15 year-old student at Fremont High School who started what would later become known as the Crips in 1969, wasn't even on the map when Surenos were flying blue rags. I mean Nuestra Familia was flying red before Raymond Washington ever flew a blue rag. And the bloods flew red after the crips flew blue.

My response:

Again, the surs back in the day, and at least during my day (speaking from the 70's on), may have SPORTED the blue bandanna, but they damn sure didn't FLY the blue rag, similar to what the crips did back in the day, and on up to the late 90's, which is a difference.

I remember cholos from L.A., back in the mid 80's, when I really became aware, who would diss black gang bangers, for going all crazy OVER COLORS!!!! And mind you, these same cholo cats weren't dressed in blue, or togged down in blue, but rather aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllll of the cholos back in the day-TOGGED DOWN IN EARTH TONE COLORS, TO DISTINGUISH THEMSELVES FROM THE CRIPS, AND YOU KNOW THIS!

Not only that, up north, NORTENOS WEREN'T SPORTING RED GEAR! Again, I'll repeat-NORTENOS WEREN'T SPORTING READ GEAR, especially in places like Oakland, San Jose (yeah man, because of my childhood, I lived all throughout Cali).

Don't get me wrong, my memory does allow me to remember surenos during the mid to late 80's, sporting blue bandannas, but guess what? THAT WAS THE ONLY BLUE ON THEM (besides blue slacks maybe, which you began to see more or in the early 90's, by mexican bangers)! And you know what else? My memory also allows me to remember nortenos in Oakland sporting red bandannas, but guess what? THAT WAS THE ONLY THING ON THEM THAT WAS RED!

And you know what else? THESE SURS AND NORTENOS, BUT ESPECIALLY SURS, DIDN'T FLY THE RED, OR THE BLUE, AS A BANNER, THE WAY MODERN SURS DO TODAY, WHICH THEY GOT FROM CRIP CULTURE-which is a difference, than sporting it.

Hell, I remember seeing cholos and surs, in L.A back in the day, without blue bandannas, but just themselves, representing.

So naw man, I hear what you're saying, and I respect your age and all, but even though I'm not as old as you are, I still can remember enough, to get a gauge on how things were, back in the day...
THERES BEEN ALOT O DISCUSSION ON THE BANDANA THEORY AND THE REAL SAID SOMETHING THAT I THOUGHT WAS TRUE TO THE CORE-LATINOS DID NOT SPORT A BLUE RAG TO IDENTIY OURSELVES OUT HERE IN LA-BECAUSE IN CONTRATS TO BLOODS AND CRIPS WE ARE NOT IN THE SAME AREAS AS NORTENOS AND THERD BE NO REASON TO FLY BLUE-WHEN THE COLOR OF EVRY GANG (CHICANO)IS BLUE!YOU HAVE SOME GANGS SURENOS WHO WEAR RED LIKE CYPRESS BUT THEY ARE THE RARITY-MOST SURENOS WILL NEVER IN THEIR LIFE EVRY DO A DRIVEBY ON A NORTENO OR EVER MEET ONE UNLESS THEY HAPPEN TO CHANCE UPON PRISON-BLOODS AND CRIPS HOWEVER DID COPY THE CHICANO STYLE OF WEARING A COLORED RAG TO IDENTIFY GANG AFFILIATION-BUT THEY JSUT BROUGHT IT TO A WHOLE NEW LEVEL-YES CHICANOS WORE KHAKI TYPE COLORS TO DIFFERENTUATE THEMSELVES FROM BLACKS AS THEY STILL DO!HOW MANY SURENOS-REALLY -IN LA SPORT BLUED OUT TO REPRESENT THE SUR?SHOOT EVERY CHICANO HOOD FROM SAN DIEGO TO FRSNO IS SURENO-AND MOST SURENOS BEEF WITH SURENOS-A NORTE IS A PRISON ENEMY-PRISON ENEMY!AND REALLY NOT EVEN A PRISON ENEMY THAT IS TOOKEN SERIOUSLY-ALL TEH HYPE OF A SUR AND NORTE WAR IS BALONEY!!MOST PRISONS CONTAIN NORTENOS AND SURENOS AND THEY BOTH DO THEIR OWN POLITICKING -BUT NORTE IS CONSIDERED A JOKE BY SUR AND NOT WORTHY OF ENEMY STATUS-BLACK-AFRICAN AMERICANS ARE FAR AND LARGE THE SURS BIGGEST ENEMY AND MOST HATED RIVAL!AND EVERYTHING TAHT CAN BE DONE WILL BE DONE TO DIFFERINTE US FROM THEM--WHETHER IT BE TO SHANK SOMEONE FOR TAKING A CHIP FROM A BLACK TO PLACING A NO-RAP MUSIC BAN ON ALL SURENO CELLS(AN ACTIVE ORDER IN MOST CALI PENS).....CHICANO RAP WHAT A JOKE!ITS LOUSY PATHETIC AND A COPY-OF BLACK CULTURE WHICH IS WHY MOST OLD SKOOL SURENOS DONT LIKE IT-
Dude broke it down to the tee, and what about all the motown and oldies I remember hearing back in the day? We all copy and inovate something to make it different and our own. I first started see Blued up surs in the eighties. Before that when I was young my pops had some cholo homies and they would always be wearing stacy adams, pleated baggys, button down shirts, tank tops, hair nets, belt chains. Some of the younger ones always wore tan, brown, or black khackis. I started see Blues and baggy levis as the next generation came in. They kind of got rid of the classic stlyes and kinda got a uniform gangsta look with shaved heads. Sporting NIKES and team gear, black team gear at that. I remember most eses had longer hair with tails or short hair with tails braided up. I remember some fools did sport zoot suits or maybe baggys with a button down and a silk tie with a chain across with hair nets and sh$$t. Brothas for the most part didnt dress like this in my generation at all. We was all cool with everybody alittle friction here and there. Then they all came with the sur13 behind every hood and it all changed for me. Maybe in LA it was something else but not south of that.

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Unread post by twocost » January 6th, 2008, 1:59 am

Not another quote war again -.-

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Unread post by 100 » January 6th, 2008, 5:41 pm

shadow wrote:
Silencioso wrote:It's hard to be sure because Mexicans were grouped as white until the 70's
do you have a link with more info on this? i always thought it was interesting if you look at those most wanted lists like from the fbi, the hispanics they put white as their race. that's the only place i've ever really seen that.
WELL HISPANIC ISNT A RACE, THE MEXICANSSHOULD BE DECLARED, WHITE, AMERINDIAN, ASIAN, OR OTHER AS THEY IDENTIFY IN MEXICO

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by Vincetheprince » July 6th, 2008, 4:37 am

Latino gangs have been around longer

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by Silencioso » July 11th, 2008, 12:02 pm

Stupidest quote of the week award goes to...

JESUSCHRIST

who wrote:

"MEXICANS DO THEIR OWN THING ---LOOK AT ALL THE MEXICAN KIDS BRINGING BACK SKATEBOARDING AND WEARING BANGS AND CHECKERED VANS AND HEAVY METAL SHIRTS"

I agree with some of the points you make homie but come on! Skateboarding? Vans? Heavy Metal Shirts? All those thing are WHITE with a capital "W". You're not defending the "Mexicans do their own thing" position very well bringing that stuff up. LOL

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by TheReal » July 11th, 2008, 1:43 pm

Vincetheprince wrote:Latino gangs have been around longer
No they haven't, unless you're talking about the L.A. area, and even that's somewhat disputed. Mexicans in this country, contrary to apocryphal belief, WEREN'T THE FIRST GANG BANGERS!

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by Vincetheprince » July 11th, 2008, 6:31 pm

LA area, and I know many varrios that have been around since th 1940's and 1950's

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by TheReal » July 14th, 2008, 5:35 am

Vincetheprince wrote:LA area, and I know many varrios that have been around since th 1940's and 1950's
There were black gangs in L.A., going all the way back to the 1920's.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by Vincetheprince » July 14th, 2008, 9:04 am

can you name them? and are they still around?

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by Silencioso » July 14th, 2008, 11:46 am

The Boozies were a black gang from the 1920's. There were Mexican gangs in downtown L.A. in the 1910's like Dog Town, Lincoln Hts, North Broadway, Bunker Hill.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by Vincetheprince » July 15th, 2008, 5:36 am

thier you go you just said it thiers been mexican gangs sine 1910

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by TheReal » July 16th, 2008, 5:56 am

Silencioso wrote:The Boozies were a black gang from the 1920's. There were Mexican gangs in downtown L.A. in the 1910's like Dog Town, Lincoln Hts, North Broadway, Bunker Hill.
Were these the names of the gangs, or the names of the streets and territories?

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by TheReal » July 16th, 2008, 5:57 am

Vincetheprince wrote:thier you go you just said it thiers been mexican gangs sine 1910
Yeah Vince, but it still doesn't take away from the info I posted on this thread, or on other threads...

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