Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

These concepts are socially constructed and have been given much weight. What are your thoughts?
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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by Silencioso » July 16th, 2008, 12:40 pm

TheReal wrote:
Silencioso wrote:The Boozies were a black gang from the 1920's. There were Mexican gangs in downtown L.A. in the 1910's like Dog Town, Lincoln Hts, North Broadway, Bunker Hill.
Were these the names of the gangs, or the names of the streets and territories?
The names of the gangs. The 1910's and 20's are the prehistoric period for Mexican gangs in L.A. It's not a well documented period. My knowledge comes from old L.A. Times articles I've read and oral tradition from older people in my neighborhood. When the pachuco style hit L.A. in the 30's there was already an established street gang culture in L.A. of neighborhood based youth gangs. The chuco style mixed with the gang boy style and out of that you get the zoot suiter/vato loco.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by Vincetheprince » July 16th, 2008, 1:03 pm

haha lol true

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by TheReal » July 17th, 2008, 6:12 am

Silencioso wrote:
TheReal wrote:
Silencioso wrote:The Boozies were a black gang from the 1920's. There were Mexican gangs in downtown L.A. in the 1910's like Dog Town, Lincoln Hts, North Broadway, Bunker Hill.
Were these the names of the gangs, or the names of the streets and territories?
The names of the gangs. The 1910's and 20's are the prehistoric period for Mexican gangs in L.A. It's not a well documented period. My knowledge comes from old L.A. Times articles I've read and oral tradition from older people in my neighborhood. When the pachuco style hit L.A. in the 30's there was already an established street gang culture in L.A. of neighborhood based youth gangs. The chuco style mixed with the gang boy style and out of that you get the zoot suiter/vato loco.
I hear what you're saying and all, about the origins of mexican gangs going back to 1910 (in many ways, I'll just have to give you the benefit of the doubt, and say you're telling the truth, even about the decade of the 30's, seeing as how I don't have any evidence to validate, or invalidate your claims) but much of the established street gang culture, had nothing to do with the black gang and/or black cultural influences I'm referring to, in regards to slang; crip or blood walkin; stackin', gestures and mannerisms; musical styles; zoot suits (now I can definitely produce articles discussing how pachucos back in the day co-opted aspects of "blackness" in order forge an identity separate from their "old school/old world parents; etc. As a matter of fact, if you check carefully, in one of my old posts on this site, I think I may have even posted an article addressing that issue about the Pachucos, and the Sleepy Lagoon incident, etc.); etc.

So I am not, in any way, denying your claims about mexicans gangs in L.A. being first, just like I'm not going to dispute the fact that the first street gang members in the U.S. were composed of primarily Irish folks. But just because Irish folks were the first street gang members in the U.S., and just because mexicans were the first street gang members in L.A., doesn't mean that all gang culture in the U.S., or L.A., that you see out here today, stemmed, or originated from mexicans, or Irish folks. In the case of L.A., despite what mexicans contributed to gang culture, or being the first gang members in L.A., I know one thing: L.A. GANG CULTURE OVERALL, HAS A STRONG DOSE OF DARK CHOCOLATE CULTURAL INFLUENCES, WITHOUT WHICH OVERALL, L.A. GANG CULTURE, OR L.A., WOULDN'T BE L.A., NOR HAVE THAT L.A/WEST COAST MYSTIQUE.

I know some folks hate to hear this, or even acknowledge this, to where it will make some folks lose their mind, and their religion (especially if you're someone who hates to give black folks credit for anything), but it's the truth.

And when you speak of "gang boy style", what exactly are you referring to?

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by TheReal » July 17th, 2008, 11:23 am

Silencioso wrote:
TheReal wrote:
Silencioso wrote:The Boozies were a black gang from the 1920's. There were Mexican gangs in downtown L.A. in the 1910's like Dog Town, Lincoln Hts, North Broadway, Bunker Hill.
Were these the names of the gangs, or the names of the streets and territories?
The names of the gangs. The 1910's and 20's are the prehistoric period for Mexican gangs in L.A. It's not a well documented period. My knowledge comes from old L.A. Times articles I've read and oral tradition from older people in my neighborhood. When the pachuco style hit L.A. in the 30's there was already an established street gang culture in L.A. of neighborhood based youth gangs. The chuco style mixed with the gang boy style and out of that you get the zoot suiter/vato loco.
When you say "chuco style", are you referring to what we know as the "cholo" style? And again, what was that "gang boy style" you speak of.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by Silencioso » July 17th, 2008, 12:31 pm

By "chuco" I mean pachuco - The zuit suiter, flashy dresser, calo talking vato loco image. That style comes from El Paso. When the pachuco style arrived in L.A. in the 30's there was already an established street gang scene going on, mostly in the older barrio of Downton L.A.When I say "gang boy style" I just mean pre-pachuco/zoot suiter. That period isn't well documented but based on the few photos I've seen the gang members from that era looked a little like the "East Side KIds" - basically just street clothes.

something like this:
riis38.gif

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by Silencioso » July 17th, 2008, 12:32 pm

riis38.gif
riis38.gif (34.67 KiB) Viewed 8848 times

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by TheReal » July 17th, 2008, 12:46 pm

Silencioso wrote:By "chuco" I mean pachuco - The zuit suiter, flashy dresser, calo talking vato loco image. That style comes from El Paso. When the pachuco style arrived in L.A. in the 30's there was already an established street gang scene going on, mostly in the older barrio of Downton L.A.When I say "gang boy style" I just mean pre-pachuco/zoot suiter. That period isn't well documented but based on the few photos I've seen the gang members from that era looked a little like the "East Side KIds" - basically just street clothes.

something like this:
riis38.gif
I hear what you're saying. But remember, as I close this out (yeah, I'm going to let you get the last word on this one), mexicans in L.A. may have gotten the zoot suit style from El Paso, but that style didn't originate in El Paso, but rather amongst the black population of the east coast, midwest, and parts of the south. It was apart of their jazz and hustler culture. The slang, the music listened to and performed, and something of the hand gestures like giving one another skin, and calling each other "daddio" and "cat daddy" (which is language pachucos used), didn't originate in El Paso, even though it may have been introduced to mexicans, by mexicans coming from El Paso.

It's like a mexican in El Paso saying that Chicano Rap originated in L.A., while using L.A as a point of reference, as it relates to the origins of chicano rap, as well as why they rap. Even though that may be true and all, it doesn't mean that chicano rappers from L.A. were the first rappers.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by TheReal » July 17th, 2008, 12:48 pm

Silencioso wrote:
riis38.gif
This photo looks early 20th Century; no later than the early, and possibly mid 20's.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by Silencioso » July 17th, 2008, 12:56 pm

The photo is of an Irish gang in NY circa. 1900-10 or so. It's the best I could do on short notice LOL The L.A. style was a little different but similar.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by xxx » July 17th, 2008, 2:17 pm

Silencioso wrote:By "chuco" I mean pachuco - The zuit suiter, flashy dresser, calo talking vato loco image. That style comes from El Paso. When the pachuco style arrived in L.A. in the 30's there was already an established street gang scene going on, mostly in the older barrio of Downton L.A.When I say "gang boy style" I just mean pre-pachuco/zoot suiter. That period isn't well documented but based on the few photos I've seen the gang members from that era looked a little like the "East Side KIds" - basically just street clothes.

something like this:
riis38.gif

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by xxx » July 17th, 2008, 2:21 pm

The zuit suiter, flashy dresser, calo talking vato loco image. That style comes from El Paso. When the pachuco style arrived in L.A.

The Eses kicked off the gang scene in California Period.

But that dress code comes from the Black Jazz Scene that was cracking on Central Avenue from Downtown to Watts, centered in the Low Bottoms.

The Jazz scene came from Blacks that migrated from New Orleans, Harlem New York, and Chicago.........

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by TheReal » July 17th, 2008, 2:30 pm

xxx wrote:The zuit suiter, flashy dresser, calo talking vato loco image. That style comes from El Paso. When the pachuco style arrived in L.A.

The Eses kicked off the gang scene in California Period.

But that dress code comes from the Black Jazz Scene that was cracking on Central Avenue from Downtown to Watts, centered in the Low Bottoms.

The Jazz scene came from Blacks that migrated from New Orleans, Harlem New York, and Chicago.........
Yeah, you're right on that tip.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by Silencioso » July 18th, 2008, 2:37 pm

There's no question the zoot suit look comes from blacks. Is any body really disputing that? Most older cholos will admit that, and will admit the cholo style - white t-shirts, pendletons etc. - was partially influenced by white greasers in the 50's. None of that changes the fact that the varrio gang style is a chicano invention. Mexican Americans in East Los and downtown L.A. took influences that were around them and created their own unique street style. The style they created - cholo - is the basic archetype that everybody else in L.A. follows.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by Vincetheprince » July 18th, 2008, 5:14 pm

que no

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by TheReal » July 21st, 2008, 6:55 am

Silencioso wrote:There's no question the zoot suit look comes from blacks. Is any body really disputing that? Most older cholos will admit that, and will admit the cholo style - white t-shirts, pendletons etc. - was partially influenced by white greasers in the 50's. None of that changes the fact that the varrio gang style is a chicano invention. Mexican Americans in East Los and downtown L.A. took influences that were around them and created their own unique street style. The style they created - cholo - is the basic archetype that everybody else in L.A. follows.
I hear what you're saying, but will you admit that black folks back in the day, took those "cholo" influences, and created from it, their own unique style? You see, I never had a problem in admitting this, and have always admitted this, but the thing that most mexicans have a problem with, is admitting the unique tinge that black folks brought in their interpretation of the "cholo" style, or anything else unique, that black folks brought to the table, when it comes to influencing gang culture.

This is why I appeal to old photos of black gang members from the mid 70's to about the mid 90's (this is when that "cholo" influence was at it's height; nowadays, the styles more aligned with east coast hip hop style), and those photos of ese gang bangers from the same time period, so as to show the similiarities, but also distinctions, in many of their dress combinations, poses with the hand symbols, and the colors they chose to dominate their clothing.

Likewise, as I said in another post, much of the "cholo" influence on black L.A. fashion overall, specifically gang fashion, came about during the late 70's and 80's, when nationwide, bell bottoms, and flare legged pants were going out of style, enhanced by the fact that at local swap meets throughout L.A. and parts of northern Cali, poor black parents were able to purchase for their children, cheap clothing in the form of shirts, and slacks. And guess what-MUCH OF THE CHEAP CLOTHING AT THIS TIME, SOLD AT THESE SWAP MEETS, THAT BLACK PARENTS WOULD PURCHASE FOR THEIR CHILDREN, COMPRISED OF KHAKIS, PENDLETON SHIRTS, T-SHIRTS, AND THE LIKE: clothes that were codified as by mexicans as "cholo" gear (maybe I'm speaking from my own experience, but I'm sure someone black out there, who's old enough to remember, can holler back at me).

This was when the shift in fashion styles begin to shift from that 70's dress style for black gangs, to predominantly "cholo" influenced dress styles, on the part of black folks in L.A., especially the gang banging community. But even though there was this shift, again, you can't deny the fact that black folks interpreted their style differently, or had a predominantly unique way of "combinating" what they wore.

Again, this is why I consistently appeal to old photos, and movies, because within those photos and movies, are fashion time capsules, regardless of what our memories choose to remember.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by TheReal » July 21st, 2008, 6:59 am

Silencioso wrote: Mexican Americans in East Los and downtown L.A. took influences that were around them and created their own unique street style. The style they created - cholo - is the basic archetype that everybody else in L.A. follows.
Man, I'm saying the same thing, only when it comes to black folks, so where's the problem?

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by TheReal » July 21st, 2008, 8:32 am

With that said in the above, right now-the predominate fashion statement in L.A. today, isn't the "cholo" codified gear, as much as it is east coast hip hop gear. This is the same gear I peeped in the very late 80's, on the east coast, and very early 90's, which was a distinct style from that west coast, and specifically "cholo" look. Likewise, the rap videos that were coming from the west back in those days (i.e. NWA, The DOC, ATL, etc.), the cats weren't really dressing in baggy or sagging clothing. I'm talking about the time period of 89 - 91. Furthermore, the west coast look and mystique, when it comes to fashion, really didn't penetrate the east coast fashion ethos.

Back during this specific time period, back east, you had black cats wearing sagging pants, and clothing that imitated if anythng, that "grunge" hobo/homeless look, with oversized/baggy pants, big coats with hoods, hoodies (which was always in style), timbalands, marine recon headgear, etc. All of this was different from what folks, namely black folks, back west were dressing like.

(If folks want a peep into how blacks on the east coast dressed during this time period, compared to their west coast counterparts, just check out the movie "Juice", which was released in 92', which means the movie was made in 91. True enough, these cats wore baggy and somewhat oversized clothing, to an extent, but it wasn't similar to what black folks or mexicans were wearing out west at the time.)


Simply put, as some idiot suggested before, when I posted such info on this site, you can believe I'm making this up all you want to, but unless you got out of your comfort zone, and left the west coast, and lived back east during the time frames between 89 and 91, then folks have no authority to refute, or put into legitimate question, my information.

As a matter of fact, anyone from the east coast, who can remember the timeframe I referring to, can easily vouch for what I'm saying as being true 100%.

In other words, a lot eses today don't dress like classic cholos from back in the day, and neither do black gang bangers, in these contemporary times, even in L.A. If anything, one can say that L.A. street fashion is a fusion of east-coast hip-hop gear, with residues of cholo influences, which is basically that west coast flavor (I say "west coast" flavor because black folks in L.A., again, fused and imprinted their own cultural stamp onto the fashions they appropriated from the codification of cholo styles, similar to how mexicans did the same thing, when it came to appropriating other cultural styles, to come up with the cholo styles).

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by Silencioso » July 21st, 2008, 1:07 pm

REAL,

I agree with pretty much everything you wrote, especially the points you make about the East Coast hip hop influence on modern day gangsta style. In the gang world everybody takes ideas from everybody else and nobody gets credit for being the originals.

My main point is that Chicanos set the tone for the L.A. gang scene in the same way that blacks and poor whites set the tone for the Chicago gang scene. You're not likely to meet a Mexican gangbanger from Chicago who seriously believes that Chicanos started the People and Folks, or wearing the hats to the right or left or gang sweaters etc. It's understood that blacks and/or whites started all those things. Similarly Chicanos created the distinctive L.A. gang graffiti style, the basic white t-shirt/khakis/bandana/pendleton combination, the emphasis on tatoos, the preference for old english style lettering etc.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by TheReal » July 21st, 2008, 2:09 pm

Silencioso wrote:REAL,

I agree with pretty much everything you wrote, especially the points you make about the East Coast hip hop influence on modern day gangsta style. In the gang world everybody takes ideas from everybody else and nobody gets credit for being the originals.

My main point is that Chicanos set the tone for the L.A. gang scene in the same way that blacks and poor whites set the tone for the Chicago gang scene. You're not likely to meet a Mexican gangbanger from Chicago who seriously believes that Chicanos started the People and Folks, or wearing the hats to the right or left or gang sweaters etc. It's understood that blacks and/or whites started all those things. Similarly Chicanos created the distinctive L.A. gang graffiti style, the basic white t-shirt/khakis/bandana/pendleton combination, the emphasis on tatoos, the preference for old english style lettering etc.
Yeah I can see where you're coming from on this, and you're right, even though mexicans weren't the first to wear these clothes, and even though other folks were wearing these clothes and combinations (like my old relatives during the 70's who would wear khakis and pendleton shirts, and these old heads were far from being bangers; my mothers brothers who were field workers, would wear bandannas and khakis), I will admit that mexicans were the first to codify/institute this gear (why, I don't know) as street gang gear.

As far as "L.A. gang graffiti style," you have to be more specific, because east coast gangs, going all the way back to the mid 60's (I can't go back any further), had their fair share of graffiti. Maybe graffiti is a universal thing. So you may have to define exactly what you mean by "L.A gang graffiti style." The tattoos and the old english style of writing-you may be right, for I don't have any info to contradict it, or prove it wrong. I will say though, an older half-brother of mine, back in the late 70's, was a member of the Pirus, and he sported a supposed tat from that set. Likewise I had a cousin, who in the early 80's, was a big dog shot caller in the BGF, and he wore that tat.

Having said that, I do know of a surety, and will put my life on this, and that is black gangs back in the day (I roughly speaking of the 70's and 80's, which were times I could remember)-were the only ones I saw, sporting heavily, blue and red clothing, like it was a religion No matter what anyone wants to say, eses back in the day weren't drenched in blue, or repping blue, or red for that matter, as heavily as they are doing today: that shit was codified by the crips and blues, regardless of who began to first use colored bandannas. Again, I can't budge from that point.

(Furthermore, back in the day, and to a lesser/greater extent today, black folks even wore their bandannas differently. Remember historically, black folks would wear their bandannas to where it totally covered their crown, with the knot being tied in the back, or a little above their foreheads. Black folks, going back to the nineteenth century, consistently wore their bandannas or headkerchiefs this way. Mexicans/chicano gang bangers would primarily wear their bandannas similar to japanese kamikaze pilots, or samurais-folded, and wrapped around their heads, with the knots in the back, while leaving the crown of their heads exposed. Certain black hip hop artists have recently begun to wear their bandannas this way, getting away from the traditional black way.

Also during this time period with the crips and the bloods, even though they weren't the first in history to wear their bandannas this way, they re-popularized during the 70's and 80's, the use of the bandanna to cover up their faces, whereas eses back in the day, especially the 70's, weren't doing this, as they are doing so today.)

But yeah, okay, mexicans were the first to codify, again, khakis, pendleton shirts, t-shirts (not that they were the first and only folks to wear t-shirts; they just codified it as street gear, and these ts were mainly tucked in their pants), maybe the use of tats, as L.A. gang gear (apparel like hoodies, chucks, earrings, gold chains, sweat shirts, derby jackets and the like, I don't consider traditional codified cholo gear), and style, whereas black folks arrogated this style, and made it their own by codifying certain elements (again, just check out old photos from the 70's and 80's, and compare and contrast to the two groups, in order to see the similarities, and the distinctions, which are there) similar to how pachucos arrogated the zoot-suit style from black folks, and codified certain elements.

The only difference between the pachucos and black folks arrogation of chicano fashions, is that black folks, with few exceptions (unless they were surenos, and back in the day you had them), didn't adapt the slang, music, dances, names or expressions, from mexicans/chicanos, whereas pachucos not only adopted the dress, but a lot of other cultural nuances from popular black culture at the time.

But again, with few exceptions, the traditional, or original L.A. gangster gear, from all available evidence (if by traditional, you're referring strictly to white ts, khakis, pendleton shirts, croker sack shoes, and the like, being referred to as cholo gear, codified by chicanos/mexicans), was codified by mexicans/chicanos.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by TheReal » July 21st, 2008, 2:12 pm

Now I'm really through with this topic, because it's beginning to bore me. I think I've said my piece, and have been fair as I'm going to be, or capable of being, for in the end, I have tried to tell the truth.

All cultures living in close proximity to one another, is eventually going to bite off of the other culture, and to deny this, regardless of where you come down, would be the height of dishonesty. Peace.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by TheReal » July 21st, 2008, 2:39 pm

One last thing, but from my recollections as a shorty in the 70's, I remember eses being in love with the 1950's to mid 60's culture, when it comes to music and dress. I'm talking about those old school cholos, not these newfangled chicanos you have today.

Back in the day, it wasn't a rare thing to see a cholo cruising in lowered automobiles from the 40's, 50's, and 60's, playing 1950's and 60's music (people nowadays talk about eses and their love for lowered Chevy Impalas, well from my recollections, mid 60's Chevy Impalas were a thing amongst black lowriders, whereas in the 70's, the eses I was familiar with were in love with the 57 Chevy).

Those cats were like in their own time warp. And speaking of white greaser culture, yeah-many cholos back in the day had that white greaser image from the 50's; kinda like a James Dean/Fonz type of persona (many of the cholos would also wear their hair similar, not entirely, the way folks from the decade of the 40's, 50's and part of the 60's, would wear theirs). And much of their dress, besides the codified L.A. street gear listed, were taken from the pages of 1940's and 50's catalogues. In other words, they were in love with the decades of the 40's, and 50's, when it came to fashion, and the decades of the 40's, 50's and mid 60's, when it came to music. Don't get me wrong, they listened to contemporary music of the time, it's just that back in those days, "oldies" music was that music that came out during the 50's and 60's.

I remember going to an ese party back in the very early 80's, and these cats were primarily playing those deep oldies, from cats like Clyde McPhatter, the Flamingoes, the Platters, the Jive Five, etc.

Simply put, in many ways, cholo/chicano culture from back in the 70's, had a love affair with the fashion and the music, from previous years, especially the 1950's.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by TheReal » July 21st, 2008, 2:44 pm

One last thing, and I'm through:

From my recollections as a shorty in the 70's, I remember eses being in love with the late 1940's, to mid 60's culture, when it comes to music and dress. I'm talking about those old school cholos, not these newfangled chicanos you have today.

Back in the day, it wasn't a rare thing to see a cholo cruising in lowered automobiles from the 40's, 50's, and 60's, playing 1950's and 60's music (people nowadays talk about eses and their love for lowered 64 Chevy Impalas, well from my recollections, mid 60's Chevy Impalas were a thing amongst black gang bangers back then, whereas in the 70's, the eses I was familiar with were in love with the 57 Chevy; I may be wrong, but this is what I can remember).

Those cats were like in their own time warp. And speaking of white greaser culture, yeah-many cholos back in the day had that white greaser image from the 50's, with that James Dean/Fonz type of persona (many of the cholos would also wear their hair similar, not entirely, the way folks from the decade of the 40's, 50's and part of the 60's, would wear theirs). And much of their dress, besides the codified L.A. street gear listed, were taken from the pages of 1940's and 50's catalogues. In other words, they were in love with the decades of the 40's, and 50's, when it came to fashion, and the decades of the 50's and mid 60's, when it came to music. Don't get me wrong, they listened to contemporary music of the time (70's), it's just that back in those days, "oldies" music was that music that came out during the 50's and 60's.

I remember going to an ese party back in the very early 80's, and these cats were primarily playing those deep oldies, from cats like Clyde McPhatter, the Flamingoes, the Platters, the Jive Five, etc.

Simply put, in many ways, cholo/chicano culture from back in the 70's, and up to the mid to late 80's, had a love affair with the fashion and the music, from previous years, especially the 1950's. But bear in mind, by the late 80's, things began to somewhat change.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by TheReal » July 21st, 2008, 2:45 pm

One last thing, and I'm through:

From my recollections as a shorty in the 70's, I remember eses being in love with the late 1940's, to mid 60's culture, when it comes to music and dress. I'm talking about those old school cholos, not these newfangled chicanos you have today.

Back in the day, it wasn't a rare thing to see a cholo cruising in lowered automobiles from the 40's, 50's, and 60's, playing 1950's and 60's music (people nowadays talk about eses and their love for lowered 64 Chevy Impalas, well from my recollections, mid 60's Chevy Impalas were a thing amongst black gang bangers back then, whereas in the 70's, the eses I was familiar with were in love with the 57 Chevy; I may be wrong, but this is what I can remember).

Those cats were like in their own time warp. And speaking of white greaser culture, yeah-many cholos back in the day had that white greaser image from the 50's, with that James Dean/Fonz type of persona (many of the cholos would also wear their hair similar, not entirely, the way folks from the decade of the 40's, 50's and part of the 60's, would wear theirs). And much of their dress, besides the codified L.A. street gear listed, were taken from the pages of 1940's and 50's catalogues. In other words, they were in love with the decades of the 40's, and 50's, when it came to fashion, and the decades of the 50's and mid 60's, when it came to music. Don't get me wrong, they listened to contemporary music of the time (70's), it's just that back in those days, "oldies" music was that music that came out during the 50's and 60's.

I remember going to an ese party back in the very early 80's, and these cats were primarily playing those deep oldies, from cats like Clyde McPhatter, the Flamingoes, the Platters, the Jive Five, etc.

Simply put, in many ways, cholo/chicano culture from back in the 70's, and up to the mid to late 80's, had a love affair with the fashion and the music, from previous years, especially the 1950's. But bear in mind, by the late 80's, things began to somewhat change.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by TheReal » July 21st, 2008, 2:45 pm

One last thing, and I'm through:

From my recollections as a shorty in the 70's, I remember eses being in love with the late 1940's, to mid 60's culture, when it comes to music and dress. I'm talking about those old school cholos, not these newfangled chicanos you have today.

Back in the day, it wasn't a rare thing to see a cholo cruising in lowered automobiles from the 40's, 50's, and 60's, playing 1950's and 60's music (people nowadays talk about eses and their love for lowered 64 Chevy Impalas, well from my recollections, mid 60's Chevy Impalas were a thing amongst black gang bangers back then, whereas in the 70's, the eses I was familiar with were in love with the 57 Chevy; I may be wrong, but this is what I can remember).

Those cats were like in their own time warp. And speaking of white greaser culture, yeah-many cholos back in the day had that white greaser image from the 50's, with that James Dean/Fonz type of persona (many of the cholos would also wear their hair similar, not entirely, the way folks from the decade of the 40's, 50's and part of the 60's, would wear theirs). And much of their dress, besides the codified L.A. street gear listed, were taken from the pages of 1940's and 50's catalogues. In other words, they were in love with the decades of the 40's, and 50's, when it came to fashion, and the decades of the 50's and mid 60's, when it came to music. Don't get me wrong, they listened to contemporary music of the time (70's), it's just that back in those days, "oldies" music was that music that came out during the 50's and 60's.

I remember going to an ese party back in the very early 80's, and these cats were primarily playing those deep oldies, from cats like Clyde McPhatter, the Flamingoes, the Platters, the Jive Five, etc.

Simply put, in many ways, cholo/chicano culture from back in the 70's, and up to the mid to late 80's, had a love affair with the fashion and the music, from previous years, especially the 1950's. But bear in mind, by the late 80's, things began to somewhat change.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by TheReal » July 21st, 2008, 2:45 pm

One last thing, and I'm through:

From my recollections as a shorty in the 70's, I remember eses being in love with the late 1940's, to mid 60's culture, when it comes to music and dress. I'm talking about those old school cholos, not these newfangled chicanos you have today.

Back in the day, it wasn't a rare thing to see a cholo cruising in lowered automobiles from the 40's, 50's, and 60's, playing 1950's and 60's music (people nowadays talk about eses and their love for lowered 64 Chevy Impalas, well from my recollections, mid 60's Chevy Impalas were a thing amongst black gang bangers back then, whereas in the 70's, the eses I was familiar with were in love with the 57 Chevy; I may be wrong, but this is what I can remember).

Those cats were like in their own time warp. And speaking of white greaser culture, yeah-many cholos back in the day had that white greaser image from the 50's, with that James Dean/Fonz type of persona (many of the cholos would also wear their hair similar, not entirely, the way folks from the decade of the 40's, 50's and part of the 60's, would wear theirs). And much of their dress, besides the codified L.A. street gear listed, were taken from the pages of 1940's and 50's catalogues. In other words, they were in love with the decades of the 40's, and 50's, when it came to fashion, and the decades of the 50's and mid 60's, when it came to music. Don't get me wrong, they listened to contemporary music of the time (70's), it's just that back in those days, "oldies" music was that music that came out during the 50's and 60's.

I remember going to an ese party back in the very early 80's, and these cats were primarily playing those deep oldies, from cats like Clyde McPhatter, the Flamingoes, the Platters, the Jive Five, etc.

Simply put, in many ways, cholo/chicano culture from back in the 70's, and up to the mid to late 80's, had a love affair with the fashion and the music, from previous years, especially the 1950's. But bear in mind, by the late 80's, things began to somewhat change.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by TheReal » July 21st, 2008, 2:45 pm

One last thing, and I'm through:

From my recollections as a shorty in the 70's, I remember eses being in love with the late 1940's, to mid 60's culture, when it comes to music and dress. I'm talking about those old school cholos, not these newfangled chicanos you have today.

Back in the day, it wasn't a rare thing to see a cholo cruising in lowered automobiles from the 40's, 50's, and 60's, playing 1950's and 60's music (people nowadays talk about eses and their love for lowered 64 Chevy Impalas, well from my recollections, mid 60's Chevy Impalas were a thing amongst black gang bangers back then, whereas in the 70's, the eses I was familiar with were in love with the 57 Chevy; I may be wrong, but this is what I can remember).

Those cats were like in their own time warp. And speaking of white greaser culture, yeah-many cholos back in the day had that white greaser image from the 50's, with that James Dean/Fonz type of persona (many of the cholos would also wear their hair similar, not entirely, the way folks from the decade of the 40's, 50's and part of the 60's, would wear theirs). And much of their dress, besides the codified L.A. street gear listed, were taken from the pages of 1940's and 50's catalogues. In other words, they were in love with the decades of the 40's, and 50's, when it came to fashion, and the decades of the 50's and mid 60's, when it came to music. Don't get me wrong, they listened to contemporary music of the time (70's), it's just that back in those days, "oldies" music was that music that came out during the 50's and 60's.

I remember going to an ese party back in the very early 80's, and these cats were primarily playing those deep oldies, from cats like Clyde McPhatter, the Flamingoes, the Platters, the Jive Five, etc.

Simply put, in many ways, cholo/chicano culture from back in the 70's, and up to the mid to late 80's, had a love affair with the fashion and the music, from previous years, especially the 1950's. But bear in mind, by the late 80's, things began to somewhat change.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by Vincetheprince » July 21st, 2008, 10:23 pm

Most Latinos like oldies

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by dubts » October 18th, 2008, 11:12 am

blacs were wearin white t-shirts at the time just like cholos, thing is blacs moved on to new shit while the ese's kept to the same old, its for that reason everybody thinks ese's were the ones responsible for startin that shit..........

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by pistolslanga » November 26th, 2008, 2:40 pm

dubts wrote:blacs were wearin white t-shirts at the time just like cholos, thing is blacs moved on to new shit while the ese's kept to the same old, its for that reason everybody thinks ese's were the ones responsible for startin that shit..........

yea....

ese's today are dressing up as the shyt blacks popularized in the 80s/early 90s,pendletons and khakis with chucks/houseshoes etc....

fact is..

blacks make shyt look good, whatever the blacks popularize, the eses and whtieboys are gonna hop on that shyt.....

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Re:

Unread post by tahjae » November 26th, 2008, 6:06 pm

The Panch wrote:
NICKELS wrote:MEX AND BLACKS BORROWED FROM EACH OTHER .....BUT BLACKS ARE MORE INFUENTIAL / POPULAR
That has nothing to do with Los Angeles street life which is the total opposite of what you say. All these other races are imitating what Chicano gangs started.
that has everything to do with it.you can't just say chicano's did this and that and then say what blacks started has nuthin' to do with it.ur bein' biased.black and brown borrowed from each other.do you think blacks were squares before chicano influence or something? if you want to talk about imitating,then lets talk about when mexicans came to SoCal,the first english they spoke was BLACK ENGLISH.that cool way of talkin' that cool way of walkin'.that goes hand in hand with blacks.wearin' khakis,and white tee's.those are american clothing.they didn't come from mexico.we've been wearin' them.and i want to know how we wear our clothes like yall,when yall wear ur khakis up to ur chest.show me a black that does that,and i'll show you a fool.mexicans wear their brims over their eyes.we wear our brims leanin' to the side.mexicans wore their tee's tucked in their khakis,us blacks wore and wear our tee's hangin' out.oh!,and did i mentioned the way we blacks talk and walk? we've always been known as cool.with cool poses while takin' flix.and us blacks are known to talk with alot of slang.so don't sit there and say everybody is trying to copy chicanos as if blacks were just walkin' around lookin' and actin' like nerds before chicanos came around.and another thing chicanos borrowed from us was our skin color.cause technoly we are the real brown people.we come in all shades of brown.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by Silencioso » November 27th, 2008, 12:20 pm

STUPIDEST STATEMENT OF THE YEAR:and another thing chicanos borrowed from us was our skin color.cause technoly we are the real brown people.we come in all shades of brown.

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Re: Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

Unread post by Vincetheprince » November 28th, 2008, 7:52 pm

STUPIDEST COMMENT EVER, dumb ass mexicans were in cali before bloacks, blacks and mexicans borrowed from each other

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