Is it really a "race war" or "ethnic cleansin

These concepts are socially constructed and have been given much weight. What are your thoughts?
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Is it really a "race war" or "ethnic cleansin

Unread post by alexalonso » May 18th, 2008, 3:03 am

From the May 15, 2008 New York Times article about black brown tensions was an important quote.

"Gang violence has formed some negative racial perceptions among blacks and Latinos, even though 87 percent of the 394 killings in Los Angeles last year were by people of the same race as the victim, according to police records."


Can you define "ethnic cleansing"?
Last edited by alexalonso on May 18th, 2008, 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread post by blackandbrownpower » May 18th, 2008, 5:34 am

to say that "gang violence" formed negative feelings among the black and the brown people is true, but that doesn't get to the root of the matter; which is economic. Oppressed people are left to fight for the scraps from massa's table and its never pretty. The media is definately to blame for stoking racial tensions, but also the top gang leadership inside should tell their soldiers to make sure the target is right b4 they hit it. the media is so ready to start saying "race war" it seem like they almost praying for it... there is nothing white people love more than to see black and brown divided instead of united... just like the american occupation wants the shiite to fight the sunni cuz if they unite they'll kick the occupation the fuck out.

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Unread post by Silencioso » May 18th, 2008, 11:22 am

The white man isn't our "massa" fool. We (Mexicans) are the dominant group in L.A. now. Keep your defeatistism to yourself.

The black/Mexican conflict is a combination gang rivalry and culture clash between Mexicans and American blacks.

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Unread post by alexalonso » May 18th, 2008, 12:42 pm

i think that the terms "ethnic cleansing" and "race war" play into people fears and attempts to hype the situation beyond normal levels of awareness.

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Unread post by sweetness » May 18th, 2008, 7:18 pm

alexalonso wrote:i think that the terms "ethnic cleansing" and "race war" play into people fears and attempts to hype the situation beyond normal levels of awareness.
Not really because this is exactly whats happening in Los Angeles,It starts with the gangs but then its fueled by ignorant parents and other hispanics that want hispanic power.Hispanics are and will always be intolerant people who won't live together with everybody.They will always consider their language the queens language and they will always consider themselvs as bieng better than americans especially African-Americans.I use to think that its because they fantasize so much about bieng white that even if they look a little white they think that they are gods.But thats not the case.They are just arogant self-important people.It's ashamed that America's going to cater to them because they really don't deserve it and they know it.I feel so sorry for the African-American community because this is something that has been going on for about 10 years now and its probably going to go on for another 10 years unless the communities outside of California decide to overstep Law Makers and Law Enforcers,It could happen now that all 50 states are just now hearing the stories about Jamiel Shaw, and Tiesha Miller all at once.All I know is this whole "Ethnic Cleansing" an "Race War" is going to have a horrible ending worst than anything i've ever seen in my life.

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Unread post by jmaups2005 » May 18th, 2008, 7:41 pm

no shiznit i agree with sweetness wether it maybe as white community or black community its time for these illegal mexicans to go back to mexico and its time for all gaijin to go back where they came from they can either do it right or go back to where ever they came from its only a matter of time before americans as a whole get tired of these people trying to tell us what to do they are sucking up every resource we could use for our own people especially the dumb ass mexican children who enter school and dont want to learn anything in english. :x

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Unread post by dmills » May 18th, 2008, 11:25 pm

jmaups2005 wrote:no shiznit i agree with sweetness wether it maybe as white community or black community its time for these illegal mexicans to go back to mexico and its time for all gaijin to go back where they came from they can either do it right or go back to where ever they came from its only a matter of time before americans as a whole get tired of these people trying to tell us what to do they are sucking up every resource we could use for our own people especially the dumb ass mexican children who enter school and dont want to learn anything in english. :x
Come on bro. You don't need to talk like that.

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Unread post by StillNoScript » May 19th, 2008, 1:55 am

Silencioso wrote:The white man isn't our "massa" fool.
Well then, what ethnicity would better qualify as being "massa"?
We (Mexicans) are the dominant group in L.A. now.
So, Mexicans own the LA Times, now? Mexicans run the port in Long Beach? If that's not what you meant, then could you clearly define "dominant"?
The black/Mexican conflict is a combination gang rivalry and culture clash between Mexicans and American blacks.
It's a gang rivalry. When blacks and Mexicans start throwing down on college campuses, I'll believe it's a "culture clash".

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Unread post by StillNoScript » May 19th, 2008, 2:10 am

dmills wrote:
jmaups2005 wrote:no shiznit i agree with sweetness wether it maybe as white community or black community its time for these illegal mexicans to go back to mexico and its time for all gaijin to go back where they came from they can either do it right or go back to where ever they came from its only a matter of time before americans as a whole get tired of these people trying to tell us what to do they are sucking up every resource we could use for our own people especially the dumb ass mexican children who enter school and dont want to learn anything in english. :x
Come on bro. You don't need to talk like that.
Agreed. Frankly, I believe Spanish should be the first language in the SW United States. English optional. It's going to wind up being that way, anyway. The Mexican American war was wrong. A pure land grab, based on nothing more than greed. And karma's coming...by the hundreds, every single night.

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Unread post by rocstar » May 19th, 2008, 2:48 am

Silencioso wrote:We (Mexicans) are the dominant group in L.A. now.
You're not serious are you? Numbers dont determine the dominant group. Mexicans are nowhere close to being on the level of whites.

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Unread post by rocstar » May 19th, 2008, 2:52 am

Silencioso wrote:We (Mexicans) are the dominant group in L.A. now.
You're not serious are you? Numbers dont determine the dominant group. Mexicans are nowhere close to being on the level of whites.

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Unread post by blackandbrownpower » May 19th, 2008, 5:29 am

You can look at "Mexicans as the dominant group in L.A." in numbers or look who actually has social power. And sadly, that is not the majority of oppressed people (black and brown) but the white establishment. Mexicans don't even run their own country, which is why AMLO got the election stolen from him by Calderon (who is a U.S. puppet).

the amount of people saying racist shit about mexicans on this site is ridiculous... they need to realize that the border crossed them, they ain't cross the border.

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Unread post by TheReal » May 19th, 2008, 6:54 am

In the minds of mexican gangbangers, despite what folks on here say, or would want to believe-IT'S ALL ABOUT ETHNIC CLEANSING, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THERE ARE SIMILIARITIES, OR DIFFERENCES, BETWEEN BLACK AND MEXICAN CULTURE!

And yes, to those sucker paul fools-I'M BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK! At least for two weeks....

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Unread post by Old Shatterhand » May 19th, 2008, 8:50 am

This is true. I was born into a majority and now live as a minority. The culture and heritage I grew up with are almost completely gone. Erased from the landscape. That is a fact.
Silencioso wrote:The white man isn't our "massa" fool. We (Mexicans) are the dominant group in L.A. now. Keep your defeatistism to yourself.

The black/Mexican conflict is a combination gang rivalry and culture clash between Mexicans and American blacks.

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Unread post by Silencioso » May 19th, 2008, 10:07 am

StillNoScript wrote:
Silencioso wrote:The white man isn't our "massa" fool.
Well then, what ethnicity would better qualify as being "massa"?
We (Mexicans) are the dominant group in L.A. now.
So, Mexicans own the LA Times, now? Mexicans run the port in Long Beach? If that's not what you meant, then could you clearly define "dominant"?
The black/Mexican conflict is a combination gang rivalry and culture clash between Mexicans and American blacks.
It's a gang rivalry. When blacks and Mexicans start throwing down on college campuses, I'll believe it's a "culture clash".

The concept of the" white man" being the "massa" is a black peoples trip. That was my point. I don't consider white people my "massa". Nobody is my "massa". Black Americans like to emphasize a common bond with Mexicans so we'll be their allies against their arch enemies "The White Man". That's what black/brown unity means to black Americans - gettin Mexicans to be their allies against whitey. My parents didn't come to this country to fight your fight for you. Mexicans and white Americans have our beefs and issues but they're a whole different set of conflicts than the white vs. black thing. There's no slavery issue. Most Mexicans and Mexican-Americans come from relatively recent (post 1960's let's say)immigrations, so the early days of American racism isn't part of our history except for certain families. Most Mexicans are mestizo and have white looking realtives. If your grandma or cousin look white you're not going to have a blanket hatred for "white people".

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Unread post by TheReal » May 19th, 2008, 11:33 am

[/quote]
The concept of the" white man" being the "massa" is a black peoples trip. That was my point. I don't consider white people my "massa". Nobody is my "massa". Black Americans like to emphasize a common bond with Mexicans so we'll be their allies against their arch enemies "The White Man". That's what black/brown unity means to black Americans - gettin Mexicans to be their allies against whitey. My parents didn't come to this country to fight your fight for you. Mexicans and white Americans have our beefs and issues but they're a whole different set of conflicts than the white vs. black thing. There's no slavery issue. Most Mexicans and Mexican-Americans come from relatively recent (post 1960's let's say)immigrations, so the early days of American racism isn't part of our history except for certain families. Most Mexicans are mestizo and have white looking realtives. If your grandma or cousin look white you're not going to have a blanket hatred for "white people".[/quote]

Even though you may have said what you said for the wrong reasons, nevertheless, I can appreciate your honesty in succintly telling black folks like it is, when it comes our naive perceptions about a possible black and mestizo unity thing. We need more mexicans like yourself telling black folks this, instead of other black folks who they will claim to be bigoted, short-sighted, and/or not looking at the larger picture.

Even those latinos of african descent, or outright black latinos, need to hear what you've just said, because many of them foolishly try to link their peculiar "struggles" as latinos/hispanics, with those latinos of the mestizo variety, while trying to convince black folks that the mestizos of the latino variety, are "racially conscious" and "aware," similiar to those latinos of african descent, or black latinos/hispanics, who are "racially conscious," and "socially aware."

As I've always said, there's a difference, and just because two groups may have the same enemies, don't mean they will instantly, or even SHOULD BE allies...

GOOD POST!

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Unread post by jmaups2005 » May 19th, 2008, 3:04 pm

then lets all go back to where we came from and keep each other segregated i have had enough being made to hate myself because im white

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Unread post by StillNoScript » May 19th, 2008, 5:57 pm

Silencioso wrote: Mexicans and white Americans have our beefs and issues but they're a whole different set of conflicts than the white vs. black thing.
To you, maybe. Not to prejudiced whites. Their beef with you is the same as their beef with blacks. You're just in denial of it.
Most Mexicans are mestizo and have white looking realtives.
Evidently Lou Dobbs and Bill O Reilly don't care.

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Unread post by StillNoScript » May 19th, 2008, 6:04 pm

jmaups2005 wrote:then lets all go back to where we came from and keep each other segregated i have had enough being made to hate myself because im white
You started this statement off with the correct solution, although I feel black people are entitled to the American South. They built it. Literally.

The problem is that you would never hold up your end of the solution. You're staying in America, because you feel it's your country and if anyone doesn't like it, tough s't. And, that's precisely why you're frowned upon in black and Latino communities, and hence "made to hate" yourself.

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Unread post by jmaups2005 » May 19th, 2008, 8:51 pm

and if you think blacks built the south id have to say that your miseducated thats the stupidest thing i have ever heard because last time i checked it was white europeans that brought civilization to america not africans while your people were living in mudhuts my people were living in and building big cities so i dont know where you got from picking cotton in cotton fields didnt really do much of anything except provide cotton.

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Unread post by whiskeyjack » May 19th, 2008, 9:14 pm

jmaups2005 wrote:and if you think blacks built the south id have to say that your miseducated thats the stupidest thing i have ever heard because last time i checked it was white europeans that brought civilization to america not africans while your people were living in mudhuts my people were living in and building big cities so i dont know where you got from picking cotton in cotton fields didnt really do much of anything except provide cotton.
dont get involved in black brown tension when it doesnt concern you :idea:

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Unread post by jmaups2005 » May 19th, 2008, 9:54 pm

well then what does concern me

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Unread post by alexalonso » May 19th, 2008, 10:01 pm

I dont think anyone on this string truly knows what a "race war" i or what "ethnic cleansing" is.
Really think about these terms and then look at how many blacks or browns are murdered and who was responsible.


The very, very, very, few Mexicans that exhibit racist feelings will result in murders are 8 times more likely to be a US Citizen, so please dont interject illegal aliens into this argument when they overwhelmingly play a small role in this conflict, and the ones that are illegal, spent most of their life growing up in th US since being young.

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Unread post by jmaups2005 » May 19th, 2008, 10:06 pm

yeah i agree with that in a way

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Unread post by StillNoScript » May 19th, 2008, 10:46 pm

jmaups2005 wrote:and if you think blacks built the south id have to say that your miseducated
"You're", not "Your".

"I'd", not "id"

and "mis-educated", not "miseducated".

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Unread post by jmaups2005 » May 19th, 2008, 10:48 pm

ooh you got me on my grammar

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Unread post by jmaups2005 » May 19th, 2008, 10:49 pm

umai umai kuso garuma de

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Unread post by StillNoScript » May 19th, 2008, 10:49 pm

jmaups2005 wrote:ooh you got me on my grammar
Well, that's what happens when you accuse people of being "miseducated", while being unable to form a sentence yourself.

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Unread post by dmills » May 19th, 2008, 10:58 pm

Silencioso wrote:
StillNoScript wrote:
Silencioso wrote:The white man isn't our "massa" fool.
Well then, what ethnicity would better qualify as being "massa"?
We (Mexicans) are the dominant group in L.A. now.
So, Mexicans own the LA Times, now? Mexicans run the port in Long Beach? If that's not what you meant, then could you clearly define "dominant"?
The black/Mexican conflict is a combination gang rivalry and culture clash between Mexicans and American blacks.
It's a gang rivalry. When blacks and Mexicans start throwing down on college campuses, I'll believe it's a "culture clash".

The concept of the" white man" being the "massa" is a black peoples trip. That was my point. I don't consider white people my "massa". Nobody is my "massa". Black Americans like to emphasize a common bond with Mexicans so we'll be their allies against their arch enemies "The White Man". That's what black/brown unity means to black Americans - gettin Mexicans to be their allies against whitey. My parents didn't come to this country to fight your fight for you. Mexicans and white Americans have our beefs and issues but they're a whole different set of conflicts than the white vs. black thing. There's no slavery issue. Most Mexicans and Mexican-Americans come from relatively recent (post 1960's let's say)immigrations, so the early days of American racism isn't part of our history except for certain families. Most Mexicans are mestizo and have white looking realtives. If your grandma or cousin look white you're not going to have a blanket hatred for "white people".
Gotta love that honesty. Now we can have a real discussion about the issues.

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Unread post by dmills » May 19th, 2008, 11:09 pm

Silencioso wrote:
StillNoScript wrote:
Silencioso wrote:The white man isn't our "massa" fool.
Well then, what ethnicity would better qualify as being "massa"?
We (Mexicans) are the dominant group in L.A. now.
So, Mexicans own the LA Times, now? Mexicans run the port in Long Beach? If that's not what you meant, then could you clearly define "dominant"?
The black/Mexican conflict is a combination gang rivalry and culture clash between Mexicans and American blacks.
It's a gang rivalry. When blacks and Mexicans start throwing down on college campuses, I'll believe it's a "culture clash".

The concept of the" white man" being the "massa" is a black peoples trip. That was my point. I don't consider white people my "massa". Nobody is my "massa". Black Americans like to emphasize a common bond with Mexicans so we'll be their allies against their arch enemies "The White Man". That's what black/brown unity means to black Americans - gettin Mexicans to be their allies against whitey. My parents didn't come to this country to fight your fight for you. Mexicans and white Americans have our beefs and issues but they're a whole different set of conflicts than the white vs. black thing. There's no slavery issue. Most Mexicans and Mexican-Americans come from relatively recent (post 1960's let's say)immigrations, so the early days of American racism isn't part of our history except for certain families. Most Mexicans are mestizo and have white looking realtives. If your grandma or cousin look white you're not going to have a blanket hatred for "white people".
And as I read this I'm having vivid flashbacks of mexicans calling Elvria Arellano "the latino Rosa Parks" and Mexicans holding hands at Macurthur park singing "we shall overcome" after being beat up by the LAPD.

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Unread post by StillNoScript » May 19th, 2008, 11:15 pm

dmills wrote:Gotta love that honesty. Now we can have a real discussion about the issues.
Most of what he said is honest, but not his part about Mexicans and whites having a different conflict than blacks and whites. Not to prejudiced white people. They hate blacks and Mexicans for the same reason, rather he wants to believe it or not.

And, his point about his older relatives having Spaniard and thus white blood, and looking white, makes me wonder if he's trying to make the case that whites accept Mexicans more because they're closer to them ethnically, so therefore he shouldn't have a problem with racist white people. Because, heck, in part, he is one.

As far as prejudiced and or racist whites are concerned, Mexicans are as low as blacks. And, since the immigration debate has heated up, Mexicans are even considered more of a threat than blacks, to racist white people.

I try to stay out of this discussion. But I'm seeing a lot of Mexicans trying to sneak in the notion that they're somehow higher on the American caste system, and are more accepted by whites. Those minutemen, supported by plenty of elected officials at all levels of government, aren't carrying signs saying, "Go back to Africa", now, are they?

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Unread post by jmaups2005 » May 19th, 2008, 11:35 pm

im glad im not face to face with some of these people because i honestly feel like roughing some bitches up even though my mentality is not to hurt anyone you guys are just ignorant self centered humans

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