Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

These concepts are socially constructed and have been given much weight. What are your thoughts?
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mayugastank
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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » August 27th, 2010, 2:12 am

perongregory wrote:If we made millons off of your swag then why don't u go make millions off of your swag, oh yeah that's right, you rather make La vida loco records slangin raps instead...LOL

not even we didnt get paid on the art because ART hardly ever pays!Think about it~most great artists died poor/but their styles and legacys lived on and some changed the world. Picasso-for instance invented the abstract patterns seen in camoflague. He remarked when he saw the pattern of camoflague that his style of art had just changed the world. Their are some forms of art that pay( acting/music). But would it be wrong for people to take the cultural art of Nigeria/Nambia/Ghana...and realign it and sell it and display it with not an ounce of respect for Africa? Motown/Rap/Jazz are extremely personal to the African American culture-chicanos use some of these but irregardless of whoever says some aztec invented the lyric, its not even an argument. Yet blacks/asians/whites have taken huge swaths of the movements art in tattooing/body modification/-and dont even acknowledge doing it. Notice Mainos' caligraphic neck chain-teh style of writing/the designed angel/the placement in the above picture. Would you be aghast if I braided my hair-sagged my pants-while singing motown and never acknowledging where those patterns came from? I had NEVER till recently EVER seen ANYONE of ANY RACE at ANYTIME-get the designs maino has -BESIDES CHICANOS. Yet now that style is the norm across the board for every race and isnt even considered distinctly EAST LA and CHICANO which YOU KNOW DAM WELL IT IS! ....We've argued that Japanese and Chicano art are the most popular but MAINO and most other blacks and khmers/usos/armos/white teens/ DONT GET OR HAVE japenese art tattoos BUT they all get or have some type of style that is completely ELA. How much more personal can it get when the war paint of another culture shows up on every culture? Wouldnt you be a tad annoyed? It is WARPAINT has much as the natives would mark themselves before battle with their symbols. I distinctly remeber how those patterns made me feel growing up/it made me feel like we were our own-we had our own-we did our own/and it belonged to us. Now I argue with everyone about whom started what?

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by perongregory » August 27th, 2010, 2:31 am

Yeah that's how I feel when I see some chicano throe up some Toy shit that my people and the P.Rocks who were with us started, then they actlike they own knowing damn well it took them nearly 15 years to start throwing up some beautiful masterpieces 3d, lighting up the ugly tans, and beiges of the LA city, it fuckin disgusts me. Actually, no, I don't give a shit. Blacks started Hip hop style graffiti on both the east and west coast, now who does it the most on the West, Mexicans. let them rock on, shit they needed a teacher, just like Chicanos are either tatting or should some white dude, or black guy, or asian how to do their grey ink tattooing. Only a fool would say that style of tattpoing is not Chicano, but to go on and say Chicanos started most of the shit in tattooing that you claim is pure Chiicano when I showed you sailors, convicts, and traditional Nipponese tattooing that incorporated themes and configurations is asinine. Blame the Chicano artist who wanna get paid instead of sit on their ass and tatt the homeboys soon to be dead carcass in the barrio.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by Cold Bear » August 27th, 2010, 11:13 am

Maino can rap on beat though




LOL


Ay I'm just playing but homeboy reps Gates that's a wild street in the Stuy not too far from where I'm at. (well all that shit is getting gentrified now) He did 10 years locked up and he's a real dude. He had that whole black rag movement thing going which is neither here nor there I mean I don't even know what that shit is

I don't think your man Maino was reading Lowrider Arte in the pen and is prolly not even conscious as to how chicano-influenced those tattoos are. Sadly that's just hard knock life (no orphan annie) style tattoing right there in most cats eyes out here. Cats got the tats on the back of the hands and neck if they live that hood / street life. A lot of it is cursive / script who knows how it became so popular and distant from it's West Coast Mexican outlaw roots but I doubt Maino has ever spoken to a vato outside of the security at one of his shows in LA or something like that.

But yo I'm sure you get misty like Maino does when the song comes on the air admit it lol


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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » August 28th, 2010, 6:08 pm

Others simply discount it -say it isnt so-note the VERY VERY minor differences -like say changing the OLD english lettering into TIMES NEW ROMAN, or add a little bit of chinky eyes to a mexican charra/take the sombrero off and call it ASIAN BOYZ. I know coldbear-that blacks consider that style not to be chicano and look at it as everyones style...its what I been getting at. Just about anyone who is tattooed worldwide except for maybe in Japan/have some way or some sort of chicano tattoo-it shows up on the scene by magazines like lowrider arte and TATTOO monthly. I just recently saw a white chick with a zombie like day of the dead tattoo on here shoulder. Did it bother me ? hell no-it would be simplistic if it did -obviously she knew when getting it that it was a mexican tattoo-and it definetly is with some throw back to chicano art. Let the day of the dead -show up everywhere/who gives! But seriously man-when I see/chicano art that isnt day of the dead -well then that what gets me. Because many times unlike teh day of the dead tatts -the influence isnt even noticed at all. Say like MAINO-he wouldnt even know those are chicano tattoos-since theres no sombrero or pancho villa on it -many people think that its not mexican. yet like I been saying /chicano art is a culture in and of itself FAR FAR removed from mexican style arte. Its the voice of the underground in this country-as much as black music. Yet 15 years ago -only we EVER got these patterns. Its gotten confusing in that some chicanos dont even know who they are anymore. they dont realize that MAINO-TUPAC-GAME-WAYNE-WEEZY_JEEZY-all got their styles out the chicano playbook. Its a big part of the culture of chicanos and isnt being ripped off. I doubt anyone chicano has ever even realized it or made a stank about it -besides me. Who else has evert brought it up. I saw a white chick with the caligraphic chain in seattle-on my visit. I mentioned that I had it also and she brought her girlfriends over to see it-I then mentioned that it was a mexican tattoo and she was shocked and said she didnt even know?....I mean there arent even chicanos in those spots yet here we got everyone with gang related mafia tatts like the bird and butterfly which dudes from 38th street were getting in the 30s'. Why my people dont get up in arms about this I dont understand 2 much. Blacks all quick to let a people know what is theres though. I had never seen blacks out here in LA get tatted like us till recently-since now our styles are so popular that most of it is considered to be some of the only tatts that look good or if your looking for patterns half teh book will hold ELA style inkwork.
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Kat von D is probably the reason for all teh women being tatted now. All with chicano ink
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Notice all the chicano style inkwork on souljah boy?
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day of the dead.
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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » August 28th, 2010, 6:13 pm

I AM working on my next tattoo its going to be about 4 inches high in bold letters " WE STARTED THIS SHIT!".........across my neckline-true story.....I am going to start a movement-$10 for every chicano tattoo pattern that I see on anyone. Id be a rich man walking thru the whitest white hoods and hitting up the rap concerts

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » August 28th, 2010, 8:57 pm

and on and on and on........wiz khalifa sporting THUG angel...a cholo tattoo from way back/the smoke and flames and writing
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sup ESE.
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dam seen these b4?
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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » August 29th, 2010, 3:58 pm

And on and on and on!!!.....bow wow sporting the typical cholo clowns and caligraphy.
So I mean seriously is it getting redundant? These designs have become what some like perongregory and others would like to label -neutral or not completely chicano -But less then 15 years ago -they were designed and placed only on us...worldwide now. Safe to say chicano influenced barrio tatts are the most popular worldwide. Some wold lie to argue and giev Japs their credit but their is no limit to where and who gets chicano influenced street art. Blacks? YES ....Asian Gangsters? YES....White Boyz...YES.....White Girls....YES....Every minority group would love to claim some influence in this art BUT reality is its all US !......Is it a big deal? HELL YES. Its one of our only cultural identifiers as mexican-americans.
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NOT A VATO KIND OF
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BOW WOW LOCO-sporting the cholo clown ESE
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dont know who the hell this vato is but check out vatos ink~ its getting more brazen and more cholo daily.
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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by perongregory » August 29th, 2010, 6:23 pm

I said things that you distinctly classify as chicano contributions to tattoo culture like Women, scenes of crime, sleeves etc. are not entirely Chicano. Now when someone gets the font, the gray ink, the clowns, dots, etc. those are Chicano. You say Tupac's tattos are Chicano influenced. pray tell me how a sloppy thug life tatto with a bullet not in block lettering, olde english or any chicano theme font, on an individual who is the self-proclaimed leader of THUG LIFE Chicano? a tatt of a cross, a tatt of a small ak-47 with 50 niggaz in it, a tat of outlaws, a tat of a panther and these are chicano tattoos, Are you serious? Now people like Bow WOW and WIz Khalifa, they have a lot of Chicano influence but you'll see the gray ink style and say all of the persons tattoos are straight bit and that's BS. Soulja Boy might have the Gray ink to present his tattoos but the content of his tatts are not Chicano. That's like saying a Mexican rappers song is entirely black because he used a black style of music to rap about CHicano life, using Calo, and other CHicano ways of communication.
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I'm sorry those are not CHicano style tattoos, not the same font, not connected, black ideas, and thoughts...cut the BS. If you wanna claim placement of tattoos as clearly Chicano than most of the bodyshots you see blasted on Chicanos are stolen from white sailors. Like the ones I posted.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » August 31st, 2010, 5:58 pm

Most the body shots were stolen from white sailors?

Like the shot across the abdominals in lettering
The caligraphy chain
The upside the head shot
The back of the neck shot
the ribcage lettering shot
the wording on the hands (front)
The side of the neck wording
The forearm shot with lettering

Face it chicano style tatoo art is the most respected-admired-and the one thought to hold the most authenticity outside the japenese-they get alot of credit/the have a whole style-placemnet-coloring-symbolism-thats real unique which with alongside chicanos explains why are two groups are the most popular. I am not saying people arent entitled to tattoo/its an ancient custom. No group can lay claim to it. When the word tattoo was fist used aztecs had been doing it 300+ years-Africans from Africa practiced it for a thousand...and God only knows who the hell started it. However (we) have made it a societal norm/and not much of anyone else has hands in it. did chicanos invent caligraphy?no. did they invent clowns-tears-certain fonts-sombreros-skulls-peacocks-butterflies-stars-flowers-roses-.....No no and NO!......Were they the first to use alot of them for cultural identifiers? YES...did they come up with unique placements? YES . Were they one of the only races in these states to tattoo /many of Americas modern type tattoos? ABSOLUTELY. Did anyone of another race? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Did it influence ever race -everywhere? SURE AS HELL. Appreciate it -youve gotten to see a worldwide phenomena take off right from your city and if your over 25-your a witness to the birth of a whole new subset of culture. A whole new way of trensetting and a whole new way, of defining beauty. We put it done for all minorities and gave them a universal way to identify and be different -that even white america is obsessed with. Did anyone ask permission when taking these things? NO. Did people who first rapped and sung in traditional black music ask African Americans for recognition...absouletely! Slim Shady did-Vanilla Ice did-Pink did. Anyone who touches or touches down on anything remotely black-like the vocabulary/the music/the dance...usually first seeks approval from black America. Imagine a white cat Rapping with braids on who didnt??....yet for all its importance to the chicano movement-blacks never asked permission to get our WARPAINT. This warpaint was uniquely us and I have every right to be offended. I remember the days of white cops in East Los. Coming thru checking chicanos-and trying to find any tattoo they believed was gang related to take a fool to jail for the night. But now -everything we are is exploited and worst yet ....I have to reach down and respond to this -like the people saying it dont know the dam truth to begin with-
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some of what we used to go thru for those tattoos
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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by buLLetxx2 » August 31st, 2010, 7:33 pm

mayugastank wrote:Most the body shots were stolen from white sailors?

Like the shot across the abdominals in lettering
The caligraphy chain
The upside the head shot
The back of the neck shot
the ribcage lettering shot
the wording on the hands (front)
The side of the neck wording
The forearm shot with lettering

Face it chicano style tatoo art is the most respected-admired-and the one thought to hold the most authenticity outside the japenese-they get alot of credit/the have a whole style-placemnet-coloring-symbolism-thats real unique which with alongside chicanos explains why are two groups are the most popular. I am not saying people arent entitled to tattoo/its an ancient custom. No group can lay claim to it. When the word tattoo was fist used aztecs had been doing it 300+ years-Africans from Africa practiced it for a thousand...and God only knows who the hell started it. However (we) have made it a societal norm/and not much of anyone else has hands in it. did chicanos invent caligraphy?no. did they invent clowns-tears-certain fonts-sombreros-skulls-peacocks-butterflies-stars-flowers-roses-.....No no and NO!......Were they the first to use alot of them for cultural identifiers? YES...did they come up with unique placements? YES . Were they one of the only races in these states to tattoo /many of Americas modern type tattoos? ABSOLUTELY. Did anyone of another race? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Did it influence ever race -everywhere? SURE AS HELL. Appreciate it -youve gotten to see a worldwide phenomena take off right from your city and if your over 25-your a witness to the birth of a whole new subset of culture. A whole new way of trensetting and a whole new way, of defining beauty. We put it done for all minorities and gave them a universal way to identify and be different -that even white america is obsessed with. Did anyone ask permission when taking these things? NO. Did people who first rapped and sung in traditional black music ask African Americans for recognition...absouletely! Slim Shady did-Vanilla Ice did-Pink did. Anyone who touches or touches down on anything remotely black-like the vocabulary/the music/the dance...usually first seeks approval from black America. Imagine a white cat Rapping with braids on who didnt??....yet for all its importance to the chicano movement-blacks never asked permission to get our WARPAINT. This warpaint was uniquely us and I have every right to be offended. I remember the days of white cops in East Los. Coming thru checking chicanos-and trying to find any tattoo they believed was gang related to take a fool to jail for the night. But now -everything we are is exploited and worst yet ....I have to reach down and respond to this -like the people saying it dont know the dam truth to begin with-

The nazi's used the swastika, lifted by from hinduism and buddhism but it is in no way synonymous with German culture as a whole, and only ignorant people(ignorant for whatever reason) identify the swasti solely with Nazism and Nazi culture. So laying claim to style of lettering, symbolism, etc etc that, in origin has NOTHING to do with said culture attempting to claim it makes absolutely NO SENSE, PERIOD END OF STORY.

Yes, we all can admit that bla bla bla is bla bla chicano art bla bla, but to attempt to create an entire culture from borrowed BS and the stamp it and call it yours or theirs is just ridiculous. WHO GIVES A SHIT. Tattoo came as a concept/word came from polynesia, spread by european sailors, adapted and adopted by MANY cultures, popularized by a few and so on and so forth. Who gives a flying fuck who did what on who's skin and what color that skin was.

I'd be less offended seeing your so-called "chicano culture" captured in tattoos which are arguably less than 50 years old on a non-Chicano than I would seeing a tribal tattoo on a non-polynesian/islander, which is muuuuuuuch more prevalent than the whole "chicano tats on blacks" thing, yet because it doesn't make for good racially heated convo doesn't get discussed.


This entire argument, once again, has more holes than a poor man's socks because your "culture" is predated by so many that it borrowed from, in regards to symbolism and styles, that said cultures could make this same argument about chicano culture(re: tattoos) and we'd never get to the bottom of this.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » September 1st, 2010, 4:14 am

Heres why you dont give a fuck whats on anothers skin -because cambodians are doing the exact same thing blacks are doing using the prototype of an outlaw in your face proud to be us-not trying to be you---dont like tattoos/fuck what your talking about we will do it larger/bolder/and across the head culture....who has set the trends for every youth group worldwide. If you showed even a remote sense of aghastness, well then that would be you admitting that your entire...cambodian-american culture and experience is a rip off of the cholo attire. Why do you think blacks are so conscious about protecting certain types of music/ways of dance/slang/dress/life??.....because for the longest time people prospered and used what they thought was cool about blacks and payed no homage to the roots of jazz-motown-bluegrass-ragtime...all forms of black music that music executives-hollywood-american youth ripped off from blacks and disregarded them as not being influential. Rock and Roll has been debated as being at its core black inspired. Yet here we have a form of body art that is permanent -in so much that this music of ragtime-bluegrass-and lesser extents motown -70s funk and others have dwindled in popularity......those tattoo patterns stolen from the cholo -will in 20 years still be on people. Unless they find some new laser that deletes huge pieces in a nanosecond. I couldnt never imagine. You stated that TRIBAL is more so popular then cholo art....give me a break. Are cambodian teens/armenian/samoans/white/black.......getting tribal top down? HELL NO. It doesnt compare to the popularity of cholo street art and styles. The only other comparative I give cholo art is japenese art. But pound for pound -cholo art is number one. I mean then to turn it around-you use arguments like a whole style and way of dress and life wasnt created amongst chicanos/in a hostile enviroment who choose instead of submission a path of resistance to a society that rejected them and discriminated against them and before that wiped out 90% of them thru disease. These patterns were OUR way-not your way nor blacks way to show resistance to a hostile enviroment and people. Blacks had a au natural look to fight the man.The dashike-formed a religion NOI-a slang-a whole style of eats'-music-dance-totally different then white society.To this day -that look the baggy pants-gold tooth anything but short haired ninja is a thorn in the mans eye. Cambodians?Samoans?Viet?Cubans?Mexicans?Other Latinos? what do these immigrant groups bring-most bring a culture from their homelands-most of these cultures are incompatible with American culture and most immigrants----either create their own pockets of societal contact-or try real hard to fit in ( enough to sell their cultures downstream) -Cambodian -American culture? nope......mainly black and mexican mix with nothing our their own culture-at least not in public~

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » September 1st, 2010, 4:34 am

The nazi's used the swastika, lifted by from hinduism and buddhism but it is in no way synonymous with German culture as a whole, and only ignorant people(ignorant for whatever reason) identify the swasti solely with Nazism and Nazi culture. So laying claim to style of lettering, symbolism, etc etc that, in origin has NOTHING to do with said culture attempting to claim it makes absolutely NO SENSE, PERIOD END OF STORY.



A total 25% of every mexican on earth lives in America. 2000 miles and 4 states border mexico. American and Mexican trade alot of culture. Mexicans have a history in the states longer then blacks do. Its natural that culture would be traded along with -tomatoes/rice/green peppers. If we are going to break down culture/I could surely break yours down and lay seige to khmer culture that is nothing but a copy of Indian culture religion/art/food traded with gold-spices-linen along the SILK ROAD. Yet despite your lies on mine I wont do the same to yours-although your culture is under 300 years old-it is still distinctly different from its neighbors culture. It doesnt lay in the middle of an ocean -by itself/the cultures been influenced but it is different then its neighbors THAI-VIET-MALAY.

Riddle me this.........what does Khmer culture have on its own not influenced by India/Vietnam/Thailand/Laos/Malayasia/ our any other neighbors.....nada maybe? a certain art....writing style? language?food?....enough to differiante between them and give Cambodians an identity?

most influential country in asia? India
who influenced India? Arabia
who influenced Arabia?Hebrews


so riddler the cambodians are REALLY HEBREWS.....lol. What a crock of shit

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » September 1st, 2010, 5:25 am

When Tupac was getting inked -rarely did anyone not chicano get down like that-I remember first seeing the tatts and being like WHAT THE HELL? he is directly responsible for bringing to the world that abdominal shot -that chicanos had done for decades. Yes he does have throwback to black culture. But that abdominal shot is so us -I dont care what type of lettering he uses -other then that --your right. I just remembered seeing the abs shot back when I was a kid and saying ...who the hell is this guy>what is he doing with that? cuz at that time it was RARE and I mean RARE to see any tattoos on anyone besides us and some whiteboys who had that pseudo cholo look

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by buLLetxx2 » September 1st, 2010, 11:21 am

mayugastank wrote:most influential country in asia? India
who influenced India? Arabia
who influenced Arabia?Hebrews
Are you serious?
"Opinions are like kittens; always given them away"

Most influential country in Asia: Historically? China, hands down.
If your sole basis for the context of influence you refer to is religion, then yes, India has perhaps had the biggest influence on religion in the region but to make that the sole basis for your argument of cultural influence is just ridiculous, as the same baseless claims could be made to your Chicano culture in the fact that it spawned from rape and pillage by conquistadors.

Who influenced India: now irrelevant in the context

who influenced Arabia?: Hebrews, are you serious? You're telling me the red headed step children of the middle east are the biggest influence to the region, despite being down right loathed by everyone else in the region for their baseless claims to "holy land" in said region? Seriously, did you really just claim the cultural minority in their region is the biggest influence in the are?
Give me a break.


Also,l Khmer/Cambodia culture is under 300 years old? Are you kidding me.
Without getting into info I was raised on, ill just lift from Wikipedia to slap that bitter taste out bullsh1t out your mouth;
wikipedia wrote:Throughout nearly two millennium, Cambodians developed a unique Khmer belief from the syncreticism of indigenous animistic beliefs and the Indian religions of Buddhism and Hinduism.
And before you go off on a tangent about how you were right about the Indian connection, be sure to reread my opening statements carefully, as I do admit the Indian RELIGIOUS influence on the region, and there's no doubt any country in the region(save for china) would debate that(and thats just because China is stubborn llike that)

And here we go again, to put to rest your baseless claim that my culture is 300 years old
wikipedia wrote:The golden age of Cambodia was between the 9th and 14th century, during the Angkor period, during which it was a powerful and prosperous empire that flourished and dominated almost all of inland south east Asia. However, Angkor would eventually collapse after much in-fighting between royalty and constant warring with its increasingly powerful neighbors, notably Siam and Dai Viet. Many temples from this period however, like Bayon and Angkor Wat still remain today, scattered throughout Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, and Vietnam as a reminder of the grandeur of Khmer arts and culture. Cambodia's unparalleled achievements in art, architectures, music, and dance during this period have had a great influence on many neighboring kingdoms, namely Thailand and Laos. The affect of Angkorian culture can still be seen today in those countries, as they share many close characteristics with current-day Cambodia.
Needed to keep that part about the influence on Thailand in there because when you named them as having an influence on me it touched a nerve, people STILL DIE to this day because Thailand, which is admittedly more developed and prosperous than Cambodia now, attempts to lay claim to our temples and holy sites, even attempting to claim our arts(martial and otherwise) are theirs, which historians clearly claim is not the case.


Please do your homework before you attempt to branch your narrow minded black v brown conspiracies into other cultures.

Peace.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » September 1st, 2010, 5:33 pm

I did do homework-Hebrews are the main contributors to all the major religions /christianity/islam/judaism....these religions are the basis for every form of goverment in the west-without judaism-Islam wouldnt exist and the mind state of INSHAH ALLAH" wouldnt have made the culture what it is. I used religion as a major factor -because culture is usually designed by religion. For istance its been said that the term "IF GOD WILLS IT" has taken away arabias sense of responsibility and that is why they are in amny of the situations they are in. If god will it we will eat tonight -if god wills it corn will grow this season/if god wills it ill make it to work on time. Etc Etc.....

Now I touched a nerve giving credit to thailand for history and culture that Cambodia started. Oh I see-your rightful indignation works well when -its your culture being stolen from. Yet when certain aspects of mine are bought-sold repackaged as ASIAN BOYZ or TRG or SOS or CRIP AND BLOOD-and then these groups get payed and create ceratin styles on chicano inventions well then let that be MY PROBLEMO?.....how arrogant. Yours and blacks took an entire youth culture and didnt even spin it an inch to come up with your supposed " adventorous youth". You take our clothing or the way weve work it-the ink-the graff-the history and think that your 20 year contribution has changed it at all. Its alot more then gangs -its a whole way of life that I dont expect you or anyone not from ELA to understand. Its popular because its perfection. You dont get to wear our cultural nuances have no one say shit about it --inso much in that MUY THAI-is a form of life from conditioning-meditation-health and practicing of an anciet art. Isnt the tiger a symbol of that "ART" do people ever show enough audacity like the blacks and asian youth do in appropriating the form without recognizing the hands that built it. Yes maybe your culture did invent it. When I said that your culture is new -I believe I was speaking on its borders-not its customs. Another thing-the autogenocide of Cambodias elite/scholars/artists/historians/bibliographers....from my scholastic reports on it -(I did a whole thing on Pol Pot the Khmer rogue/and autogenocide) pretty much left the people with no culture except ones passed down/and only the peasants of the land were left to tell the story-since its major contributors to culture were murdered. So how am i wrong in saying Cambodian culture is new?

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » September 1st, 2010, 5:40 pm

Its new as much as mexican culture is new in that 90% of its culture died and most of its written history was wiped out by the conquest. I wouldnt be naivete enough to say that the same aztec culture of thousands of years ago is the same one of today with the remnant that survived and the loss of its written history/art/recipes and traditions/religion. You are saying that -although Khmer Rogue wiped out most of Cambodias history and historians its unchanged? or would it be like in teh case of chicanos a new culture formed out of the ashes of the old ? Like the strong french history of Cambodia.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by buLLetxx2 » September 2nd, 2010, 9:30 am

Difference between us and our arguments regarding our respective cultures is I don't attempt to lay claim to anything our culture "influenced" like you do, because we were influenced by so many others, adopted, adapted and ran with it making our own culture from the roots of another.

No intelligent Khmer claims ABZ/TRG/CBC etc as part of Cambodian culture, it's an American thing and thus why I constantly raise the point that many of your claims to Chicano culture, specifically in regards to gangs, are not ethnospecific by nature but are American, through and through.

The issue that touched a nerve with me is that Thailand, as we speak, has soldiers on very sensitive borders near temples deeply rooted in Khmer culture, and regularly advance over the border, fight with the Cambodian soldiers planted on the other side, and "take over" our national treasures, claiming it as theirs, get pushed back, so on and so forth...it's never ending. This issue is cut and dry to historians with an outsider perspective, yet to to the Thai and Khmer it's so deep seeded that it's much deeper than that, especially with much of Thai culture, as I noted in my last post, being influenced by Khmer culture. Which also ties into your post about Indian influence because it was coming from the East, and therefore obviously had to pass through Cambodia, and obviously transitioned in a way, before getting to Thailand.

This sort of cultural debate is vastly different than that of cultural influences that took place outside the borders of said culture's origins, aside from the obvious ones (food, music, etc) because the USA is such a melting pot of various cultures and ethnicity that every culture gets touched in some way, shape or form by another, save for the "good old boys" in the bible belt, and even they were influenced from French and Spanish colonialism in the Southern USA circa 18th-ish century.


Also, in regards to the hebrew influence on the region in regards to religion, you need to go even beyond that then in recognizing that Christianity(as a religion as it's written and told) was influenced heavily by Greek (mythological) gods and the stories surrounding them.

Jesus, on the cross, with a spear piercing his liver=Prometheus, nailed to mount olympus crucifix style, with a raven pecking his liver.
Satan, being the son of the morning or morning star aka fallen light from heaven(fallen angel) also tells the story of prometheus, who stole the light(knowledge) from the gods(high atop mt. olympus aka heaven) etc etc.

Also, though the first account of the stories of Jesus were told by a Hebrew, it was told to and first documented and "published" by an audience of greek and roman nobles and scholars.

peace

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » September 2nd, 2010, 5:31 pm

BULLET WROTE:

Difference between us and our arguments regarding our respective cultures is I don't attempt to lay claim to anything our culture "influenced" like you do


This issue is cut and dry to historians with an outsider perspective, yet to to the Thai and Khmer it's so deep seeded that it's much deeper than that, especially with much of Thai culture, as I noted in my last post, being influenced by Khmer culture.

Okay you in one sentence say that you dont point to influence your culture has provided and in the other you point to the influence of khmer culture in Thailands society. These are things to be proud of guy.Sometimes its the outside influence of a people that creates a unique culture outside of anything anyone else has. And sometimes it just so happens the land makes the culture-as in japenese art being influenced by its surrounding oceans. I mean take the song of Americas blacks and witness the pure perfection of a style of music -still so African yet so very American. The two couldnt survive without eachother-but the voice and perspective is an African American story. As such is the account of a street life of chicanos-filled with body modification/art/forms of writing/dress and history. The ELA influence is everywhere worldwide and is the essence of the street everywhere. I saw pictures of brazilian kids in the favalas of rio ---with tattoos in replica of your Los Angeleno cholo.WHY>? lowrider-magazine-BET/MTV-American rockers/tattoo magazines etc etc .......These people are way older then "chicano" culture but "our art" has transpired borders and oceans....instead of denying it...with no real argument except for 'all cultures are mixed" .....ask yourself how do a few mexican/american youths contribute to the worlds underground and own a art of the WORLDS street...and ask yourself if their is very much black/asian/armenian youth contributions in the art and if not WHY? I mean we all live next to eachother?

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » September 3rd, 2010, 8:36 pm

Report this postReply with quoteRe: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.
by buLLetxx2 on Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:30 am

Difference between us and our arguments regarding our respective cultures is I don't attempt to lay claim to anything our culture "influenced" like you do, because we were influenced by so many others, adopted, adapted and ran with it making our own culture from the roots of another.

No intelligent Khmer claims ABZ/TRG/CBC etc as part of Cambodian culture, it's an American thing and thus why I constantly raise the point that many of your claims to Chicano culture, specifically in regards to gangs, are not ethnospecific by nature but are American, through and through.

Thats a sound argument-but why so didnt the italians of NYC or Puerto Ricans or Greeks/Irish or any other ethnic group create a form of tattooing themselves? I mean we all had the means-every one of those cultures has a story to tell. Yet despite this -it took chicanos to make the art what it is. The undergound artistry is solely ours. Would anyone be ignorant enough to say that the KOI fish isnt a japense inspired tattoo or the four leaf clover an irsih one? How about the slick Al Capone ...he isnt reminiscent of Italian Mafioso from italy. Hes an American Icon thru and thru. I recongnize that the land ( america) inspires the people. where is the inspiration of ABZ TRG ? I mean they didnt take Khmer culture and infuse america in it. They took the dress style/art of my people . No other ethnic group has made the art of the world change as much as chicanos have. Think about it not even being a race -but merely a relocated people. Are the tattoo patterns important? DAM RIGHT. More so then any other type of identifier. When people grow out of black music or the style has had its day --they move on to the next interest....what the hell you going to do when a tattoo design and style has lsot interest?...lol. Who else owns as much? who else has as much influence ? Are we speaking on an American phenomena? ist worldwide and yet just lightly covered for what it is. A form of chicano culture. No other race has a right to sport our identifiers. Its a privelege. Yet people like you and others are quick to make deals with artistry that isnt even yours. Although their may be a million movies on the ninja-with american faces -not a person alive thinks its an american invention. You and others though TRY to distort history and pretend that a huge swath of cultural identifiers of the chicano belongs to everyone.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » September 5th, 2010, 7:37 pm

You know what you fools bite so dam hard-I mean I couldnt imagine my RAZA taking the art of another culture top down and inking it permanently on themselves.....YET WE ARGUE ...about who started what? We got CASHIS a fool from CHICAGO getting inked in VATO fashion---we got a rockers TRAVIS BARKER getting everything that represents us. We got NATE KANE...getting our entire swag./...Yet let a fool take any dam thing from a black and we got a civil war. God dam -let us show you how to really represent. We do it best cuz we been doing it a 120 years. The patterns are ours. NO MATTER HWO MUCH you TRY to steal them. I mean we all had the means to be ourselves. Why couldnt you guys/come up with your own sauce? Wheres the pride their? We got a whole style of tattooing worldwide. Now we got some fronting ass fool trying to act like we didnt do it first. Get the phug outta here/.
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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » September 5th, 2010, 8:12 pm

Also, though the first account of the stories of Jesus were told by a Hebrew, it was told to and first documented and "published" by an audience of greek and roman nobles and scholars.

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BLASPHEMY

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » September 6th, 2010, 12:01 am

TYGA..CHRIS BROWN...come on !! just stop the only tattooing blacks get is MEXICAN/CHICANO. WE OWN YOU COPY! who the hell are you people
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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by buLLetxx2 » September 6th, 2010, 1:39 pm

mayugastank wrote:Also, though the first account of the stories of Jesus were told by a Hebrew, it was told to and first documented and "published" by an audience of greek and roman nobles and scholars.

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Ha.
It's 150% true, the new testament was first told to(publicly) and documented by Romans and Greeks...the Roman-Catholic church didn't just happen because they felt bad for what they did.

Also, as I've not been able to respond in the past few days(labor day weekend vacay with the fam bam) you've taken to attempt to a stir a pot that is full of your bullspit, and no one wants to take a bite.

Kick back man, enjoy your freetime in other ways dude. You're obviously quite intelligent and, if this is indeed your passion, find another outlet outside of trying to rile up a bunch of lames on the internet. Because you know, as well as I, that only bout 30% of these fools are/were real G's, 55% are faking the funk, and the other 15% are just genuinely interested in the subject matter, but less than half of all of them are able to hold an intelligent convo...
i don't know what im getting at here...i guess quit your job, and write a book or something. haha

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » September 6th, 2010, 5:50 pm

I have been very interested in creating a total flash ( pattern book) with chicano themes'. Their are several out their but they lack depth-If I was able to photgraph the prison patterns on the inmates and photograph some street art it would be a start. Or maybe a book by the name RACE WAR. Documenting the Longos in LBC. That should catch some serious attention. hahaha. I could care less about who I am debating with in THIS thread. The internet is a worldwide system of searches if some guy in hong kong happens to wonder where the patterns on TYGA came from he can click a few questions and end up here. If some dude in LONDON is interested in American gang scenes he can click on " do blacks dispute mexicans originated gang culture". These conversations we are having are viewed by the entire world. Its not a debate between perongregory-sentenza-silencioso-mnjmc-bullett-......keep that in mind mang!

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by ViciousRidah » September 11th, 2010, 11:28 pm

mayugastank wrote: Yes but you forgot to mention the first street style graffiti started in ELA. As an artist I can admire the styles of NYCs underground. We have exchanged back and forth quite a bit of culture -thus the rivalry and jealousy on EAST COAST versus WEST COAST.......which actually means "chicanos from ELA versus Blacks from NYC."


I agree up to a certain extent , yes East LA had some of the earliest urban art in the US but at the same time in the late 60s and early 70s black power murals were being projected on walls across every ghetto in the US from Chicago, Oakland, St,Louis,to DC etc.

This is why when saying hip hop started what was first known as graffiti is a bit incorrect in being absolute, ghetto black power murals of the late 1960s and early 1970s ,along with Chicagos own unique Gang Nation Style hit up/strike ups ,its hard to draw a conclusion. Hip Hop graffiti has definitely influenced the urban style of strike ups in the hood , but it definitely was not the progenitor of graffiti its self, all that goes back.

http://www.jrank.org/cultures/pages/4223/Murals.html


mayugastank wrote: accomplishments of east coasts blacks ...bringing hip-hop, graff, and a style of dress! Which by the way both blacks and mexicans borrowed from the brothers in NYC.....you sir dont acknowledge that and I ask you: 'to not fake the funk'.



Not entirely true ,as it was said before in this thread, black styles have been imitated throughout the world in this last centur. The old zoot style was derived from black playas, macks ,hustlas and even a lot of jazz musicians of the early days(1920s-1930S). If you were to observe old time flicks of old time Italian gangstas dressed compared to how jazz and blues musicians dressed( because then, as it is now black celebrities dressed like the playas and hustlas of the street), you would see that the zoot style came from the african american culture.The earliest black hustlas of the Mid West and South were either pimps,gamblers, or con artist ,and they had to dress with a certain type of finesse , they would have a suit for business and suits for them to splurge .The modern day lottery was based on CHicago ''Policy Gambling '' made by black gangstas, the first pimps were in the Bourbon district of the New Orleans.The east coast old time gangstas were always different from the south and mid west.East coast old time gangstas were always under the control of Italian Bosses, the ''40 Thieves'' a gang Madame St Clair belonged to was started by Irish and Italians. I could add on to the fact that first Skin heads derived from a urban sub-culture of immigrant Caribbeans in England that was called Ska, in the beginning skin heads were influenced a great deal from Jamaican yardies. So to sum it up, black culture whether it be US or Caribbean has always influenced other ethnics groups worldwide for a long time.



mayugastank wrote: ....because EVERYTHING westcoast about blacks is chicano! and what isnt originated with your people on the East Coast and south! But the style of your art/the words of your music/the clothing ......come on perongregory keep it real ....there isnt hardly any black west coast culture! What they mean by East Coast versus West Coast is black influence from Nyc and other hotspots versus ----



I've been to the west coast a lot and spent a lot of my summers in the Cali , in places like Chino in the IE and the Jefferson district of LA. And from what I've seen and what I've been told by reputables and friends who lived out there a long time, a lot of influence has come from Chicanos, such as the Khakis ,Plaid Shirts,suspenders( in the 80s) the sag, and lowriders, no doubt. But black G's in LA always had their own style also,from what I understand the crip and blood look of the 70s is much different from the one in the 80s . In the 80s crips and bloods adopted a lot chicano culture but they still were able to have their own and innovate their own style to the streets, the french braids, ponytails, sherly temple hair,cortez,beanies,brownies, the khaki suits not (khaki paints),ben davies,collar poppin ,and whole lot more . I don't know who started riding elbows(rims or daytons) out there first whether it be mexican or black, but between us brothas in Texas,Detroit and Cali , the first brothas to that lived in these states,now east coast residers are trying to do the same thing but they were never into that years ago, they just bought a bmw and benzes in the 80s to the early 2000s. But LA brothers style is definitely different from a brother living in the east coast,midwest, and south, brothers from all these regions would tell you that.

In the south were known for making the lean,pancakes and syrup,cruises the shut blocks down,jazz ,blues ,r&b etc emerged from here and the first seasoned pimps were from the south.

THe main problem is media and hip hop, outsiders living outside the black community would think all the flashy thangs in the ghetto started with hip hop and NYC, no any brotha living in the ghetto knew all the tight stuff has always been there , hip hop was just the first to show the tight stuff from the ghetto on TV.Just as Jazz spread in the 1920s but was always around in the ghettos of the South since it was born in New Orleans, but black southern towns were familiar with the musical style since the 1900s, but in the 1920s it spread throughout the country .And people think Jazz was started in Harlem or Chicago, THEY'RE WRONG.

mayugastank wrote: Most of the eses' in ELA have never met a NYC hip hop graffiti artist but they took their styles of writing.


Exactly , a lot of tattoo have different styles from everywhere, and no doubt the Chicanos hit ups and bombing styles are big time through out the world,but they are not the most requested designs by customers at tattoo parlors through out the world . A lot of art is hip hop influenced cultured influenced,Polynesian influenced ,and Japanese influenced, one cannot say that modern day tattoo styles solely come from Chicano artistry, the Chicano tattoo artist have borrowed a great deal of designs from other cultures.


mayugastank wrote:
Just look at the East Coast swarming with crips and bloods-the deep south like Missippi and South Carolina and North Carolina-their biggest gang problems developed in the 1990s AFTER some LA blacks moved their and started up crip sets like the rolling 90s who controlled Charlotte! It took an LA gang to show a deep historic black city like Charlotte how to get down?

How is that? The history of blacks in that city and ATL and Montgomery( another city besieged by an LA gang problem) -FAR FAR FAR surpasses the under a 100 year history of 1% of the United States black populace -figure that? Only 1 out of a 100 blacks live in LA. YET DESPITE THIS -all nationwide gang problems of any merit have to do with transplanted LA gangs. HOW SO? EXPLOSIVE- did during the peak years of the BGD and VL , Los Angelenos black gangs begin to wear beads? bomber jackets? did BGD have a presence here? Unfathomable! Over 50% of the black populace lives in the South-and so much history their but it took LA to change the atmosphere completely?


Chicago gangs have a lot of ways of representing themselves and just don't wear beads, bomber jackets, and member jackets, thats kind of old as school matter of fact and seldom represent like that anymore. Any way Chi Town gangs have a variety of style and trust me Folks and Peoples gangs from Chi-town have way more membership than Crips and Bloods in the south especially GDs or Folks, they are a lot in the ATL and the reason they don't show out is cause they have no arch enemies that are big enough to be a threat, and they are more organized and smart enough to stay low key.On top of that CHicago gangs like the Folks have been in the South and MId West longer than Bs and C's,since the were there since 60s and 70s in cities like St.Louis. Not to mention they have more legit membership , a lot of Crips and Bloods in the south are copycats and not legit.

Bloods and Crips are hardly existing in Mississipii its mainly GDs ,BDs, VLs, and Stones.South Carolina has a lot of Folks gangs also, crips and bloods have been there since the 80s and 90s but there totally different from the crips and bloods now in the 2000s. 90% are fake and a lot are east coast blood and crip knock offs who came there.North East Coast cities like NYC, Jersey Cities ,and Baltimore were not banging heavy till the late 90s and 2000s, and are ever more not legit B's and C's.


Cold Bear wrote: One was a big student and advocate for Salsa music (arguably started in the South Bronx even though some say it started in Puerto Rico) and his son was a big student and historian of Hip Hop (definitely started in the South Bronx)


Negative, salsa started in Cuba. But this is not the first time puerto ricans have taken credit for creating a new genre of music, as the case with Reggaetone which was undoubtedly originated in Panama as opposed to Puerto Rican.

Silencioso wrote: The cultural center for black people in America has changed through the years. Chicago was important in the formation of electric blues and RnB, NY had doo wop, Detroit had Motown, Philly was a big center for funk.


Funk has its origin in a lot of places, but was thought to have originated with the "Funk Brothers" who were from Detroit,James Brown, and Bootsy Collins ,this style of music comes from a lot Afro-American musicians actually it really developed in Ohio especially in Dayton.It had many other sub genres like sophisticated funk,p-funk and disco . But ''Funk'' was not from Philly , They weren't even too big on Funk.Doo Wop was developed all over IN mainly Chicago ,DC ,NYC, and Chi Town.

Silencioso wrote: he whole concept of "crews" - party crews, tagging crews etc. - came from NY hip hop. That's one of the biggest changes in L.A. gang history.


Not exactly the crews of LA ,and the crews of NY were different. First of all the part crews of LA are much thicker, and the crews of NY are hip hop crews of NYC were just 25 members tops.Part Crews in LA do a whole lot more than just party, theys set them up have cars ,buyout bars, dance battle and do a whole lot more.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » September 12th, 2010, 2:38 am

I give blacks their due respect -but feel it isnt reciprocated. Theres alot of discussion on whom started what but in all honesty MOST of the tattoo patterns done worldwide -are chicano knockoffs. I stated over and over that Japenese style tattoo art gets TREMENDOUS credit. They in my opinion are the #2 most popular style of tattooing-worldwide. But as far as American culture--well in all honesty most of teenage urban types of ANY race arent getting the designs of the Japenese-they are getting almost completely the styles of the chicano gangster. These style of tattooing are under 100 years old and are by far one of the most populariest styles. One thing I have seen and give credit to blacks for is that they are quick to change it up....( IE) meaning that they acknowledge that styles get stiff and they change the styles of their music and dress quickly. The tattooing of chicanos has likewise been able to "change it up" meaning what is fresh with most of America as far as skin art --is usually done by chicanos many years before hand. For instance -growing up in the 1990s --the "DAY OF THE DEAD" theme art wasnt popular at all. It was all tattoos on the neck/head/different styles of writing....and scenes of crime along with women. All were given "chicano spin" but they remained unique to us. The "day of the dead" is extremely popular now. Chicanos have changed it up given it an LA flavor and dropped bombs on the tattoo scene for EVERY race. Its that unique ability of blacks to set a trend and move on thats made them "cool". Chicano art is at that same level. It adapts and sets the tone for styles of clothing( picture ED HARDY-ROCKABILLY-WHITE CHOLO/ROCKER TYPES) and in this HEMISPHERE for ALL styles of skin art. Why is it important? well personally less then 15 years ago it was "OUR" way of distinguishing ourselves. Blacks during the 60-70s had the AU NATURAL braids/afros/dashikis/NOI/and the black power movement. This to us was an extremely personal way of "chicanoness". To the point that even 15 years ago I didnt think any race besides US got tattooed --since I didnt see it much on anyone who wasnt chicano. Now growing up in ELA a very personal account of the tattoo scene is seen up front and personal. The style has changed because of us-we put it out in the open when it was still a rarity amongst ANY race. Most of what I see on anyone today is chicano themed. Thats my unbiased opinion and me keeping it real.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by ViciousRidah » September 12th, 2010, 6:38 am

I would give credit for chicanos greatly being one of the biggest factors in way modern art has become so popular. But 2 things are wrong in trying to debate in whether chicano art is the number one most imitated tatoo style of today in the hood and mainstream America. For one there are a lot of different elements that have influenced the Chicano art style and they have incorporated many elements into their designs like ,like catholic Virgin Mary , which is Roman Catholic, and the hip hop style designs. And reason number 2, we don't know if the Yakuza kind of tattoo art has evolved into its own and his acquired an mimicked many of the other artistry of different cultures into there tattoo designs as well as the Russian theives world gangsters.

I don't think its wise to argue over whether Chicano art is the most dominant tattoo style on the planet,Chicanos have also contributed to whole lot of other things other than tattooing. As they have made lowriding, they are one of the first people to sup up their cars and trickem out, I don't think you would have "Pimp My RIde without Chicanos", they have made a lot of dress styles with khakis,they were on of the first urban residents to bomb on walls, they are part the reason Mexican food is so popular, think why their Taco Bells all over, the most likely made those tricked lowrider bikes and so on, They have done so much more than introduce tattoo designs as a result of them being the pioneers of modern day bangin.Thats the same reason I made it known that black influence on America didn't start with hip hop, and a lot of those elements hip hop had,were incorporated from the streets and previous musical styles like funk( which is the root of hip hop period). We made great contributions ,and the contributions from blacks wasn't only exclusive to one region or one city in America.We also made a great impact on sports and they way people play like in basket ball remember the first b-ball players who were white, did under hand shots like girls do in gym class now.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » September 14th, 2010, 11:12 pm

Blacks have influenced the entire world -definetly. The music alone is shouted in the streets of Ireland to the clubs of Japan. Peopel dont even know what the words mean but they sing right along with aint nothing but a G thang baby.
When I say that chicano art is teh most popular its the truth. EVERYONE has a tattoo that has some throwback to ELA. Anyone with more then a few has got at least one thats chicano style. The difference is that these were extremely personal to the movement. It was a real 'ethnic' way of distinguishing ourselves. No one else in this country ( no other racial group) has a tattoo style all their own. The themes played on by chicanos are real unique to us. Forget the AZTEC designs -calendars-mexican women-I mean talking that street style that all races do. Yet till recently NO RACE besides us EVER did. Check out Maino and although he doesnt sport a mexican woman -those designs were inspired by the boyz on these streets. Meaning to say that those designs werent EVER used by anyone else. Its significat because a big percent of the scene and clothing worn now are direct results of the tattoo culture.Ed Hardy incorporating sailor jerry tattoo designs/and old school cholo art/day of the dead making its way onto the rock scene by way of tattoos/shirts/art and even lately ideology. The ear plugs original worn by taggers/ravers out here with aztec designs in the center to represent a throwback to our aztec culture ( the first people to use plugs) and on and on. What gets me is the amount of tattoo patterns directly connected to our street style being worn by every race. Its unfathomable that any other group has had so much of their art repackaged in that manner. We can point to mexican art and say HEY WELL EVERYONE knows day of the dead is a mexican feast-but then in the same breathe --MOST of chicano art has a style totally distinctly and seperate from what MEXICA art is~to label the two the same is just nutz. I mean we have every ethnic group in the world here and every region has different people BUT only the chicanos of teh Southwest have been able to adapt/adopt both cultures to set the trends for the worlds underground art. Its a beautiful movement -but its a privelege to sport our identifiers and they dont belong to everyone.
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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by Cold Bear » September 22nd, 2010, 11:22 am

ViciousRidah wrote:
Cold Bear wrote: One was a big student and advocate for Salsa music (arguably started in the South Bronx even though some say it started in Puerto Rico) and his son was a big student and historian of Hip Hop (definitely started in the South Bronx)
Negative, salsa started in Cuba. But this is not the first time puerto ricans have taken credit for creating a new genre of music, as the case with Reggaetone which was undoubtedly originated in Panama as opposed to Puerto Rican.
Salsa has roots in Cuba music like Son but then you can say, the rhythms of salsa go all the way back to Africa. Modern Salsa is what I'm talking about.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by ViciousRidah » September 23rd, 2010, 7:03 pm

mayugastank wrote:
Blacks have influenced the entire world -definetly. The music alone is shouted in the streets of Ireland to the clubs of Japan.
In the 20th century ,with out a doubt, black americans have impacted nightlife,entertainment, and helped to mold the atmosphere of different countries modern day culture. An example of this is jazz, back in the early 20th century it didn't take long for it to become popular in not just AMerica but it had appeal to the masses in Europe, in Germany during WWII it swept the nation and many kids German youth were were swept into the wave so strongly they even risked their freedom,jazz was outlawed because anything that was associated as black american. or in blunt words African or mud-people music ,it was seen as blasphemous,repulsive , and unpatriotic in Nazi Germany .

Now I could go ahead and state "Ska" a Caribbean style genre of music influencing the Skinheads of England(were skinhead culture arguably originated) or could state how Afro-Brazilian martial arts styles have influenced modern jiu jitsu , or better yet contemporary modern Latin american music having strong roots in Afro-Congo music but that would be off topic cause we are focusing on urban youth in America , Chicano or African American youth in America.Or better yet urban youth influencing modern art, so I will stay within in these bounds.

mayugastank wrote: Forget the AZTEC designs -calendars-mexican women-I mean talking that street style that all races do. Yet till recently NO RACE besides us EVER did.
Saying Aztec culture didn't influence Chicano art, is like saying the fore fathers of America starting the US Senate and House of Representatives wasn't influenced by England's House of Commons and House Of Lords , its like saying protestant abbeys were not influenced by Catholic Cathedrals in architecture, like saying Bootsy COllins wasn't influenced by JB's to make his own musical get down.When new art forms first arise they usual mimic something that they previously were familiar with or were even apart of.

An example is Latin American catholic art being merged with indigenous Latin American gods in the 17th and 18th centuries, saints and gods ended up becoming syncretic and synonymous with each other ,whether they were African rooted gods or Indian American gods.

mayugastank wrote: Meaning to say that those designs werent EVER used by anyone else. Its significat because a big percent of the scene and clothing worn now are direct results of the tattoo culture.Ed Hardy incorporating sailor jerry tattoo designs/and old school cholo art/day of the dead making its way onto the rock scene by way of tattoos/shirts/art and even lately ideology.

Ed Hardy jeans were always popular amongst the punk rockers and stoners, I don't know exactly when cholos actually started wearing it.But I noticed a lot of Chicanos have had a similar taste with the stoners in regards to fashion through the years. Pearcings,tattoos,and some of pants were something that cholos have always had in common with ravers and stoners , other things that were similar between the two ,were steel toe boots, chains,pants side chain,and you wouldn't of guessed it"tattoos".


mayugastank wrote: The ear plugs original worn by taggers/ravers out here with aztec designs in the center to represent a throwback to our aztec culture ( the first people to use plugs) and on and on.
Well this the reason why you cannot discard, the aztec designs because they obviously influenced Chicano culture, whether it was something rehashed by Chicanos remembering their ancestors or if it was Aztec art that was inspirational they saw and decided to incorporate into their art.

Catholicism seems to influence the Chicano street style, the Virgin Mary is even important to some chicano gangs in LA, and some even keep Catholic ''saints'' close to their for protection or even a prayer for money, at least from what I can conclude.




mayugastank wrote: I mean we have every ethnic group in the world here and every region has different people BUT only the chicanos of teh Southwest have been able to adapt/adopt both cultures to set the trends for the worlds underground art. Its a beautiful movement -but its a privelege to sport our identifiers and they dont belong to everyone.
But don't you think that some CHicano art has been influenced by some of the the other urban styles, hip hop, stoner, punk rock, and especially Catholic art. And I would say catholic art because the Virgin Mary is painted throughout a lot of walls in Chicano gangs. The truth is America has a lot of urban sub cultures if jews live along Italians in north eastern US neighborhoods, they will influence each other, if Albanians live alongside each other in an Eatern European neighborhood in the US, they will be obvious cultural exchanges between them.Take for example Puerto RIcans and Cubans in New York in the 1950s they obviously have influenced each other in culture that helped spread musical style and suspicious beliefs,and of course what about Salvadorians and Mexicans, they both have the same style gangs examples of this is MS13 and 18st, so of course they influence each other. There is no exception to CHicanos and blacks who live in the same neighborhoods in Texas,California, Detroit, and CHicago,they probably have influenced each other somehow, in graffitti ,tricking out cars,gangster styles ,and of course tattoos

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by ViciousRidah » September 23rd, 2010, 7:11 pm

Cold Bear wrote:
ViciousRidah wrote:
Cold Bear wrote: One was a big student and advocate for Salsa music (arguably started in the South Bronx even though some say it started in Puerto Rico) and his son was a big student and historian of Hip Hop (definitely started in the South Bronx)
Negative, salsa started in Cuba. But this is not the first time puerto ricans have taken credit for creating a new genre of music, as the case with Reggaetone which was undoubtedly originated in Panama as opposed to Puerto Rican.
Salsa has roots in Cuba music like Son but then you can say, the rhythms of salsa go all the way back to Africa. Modern Salsa is what I'm talking about.
Salsa actually has roots in Rumba which is a Congo style music. I'm not saying the rhythms or the parent musical genre of it ,I'm saying the genre of Salsa itself, is arguably Cuban.But with out a doubt Salsa began Cuba, along with Santeria. These two cultural practices might of been something Puerto Ricans and Cubans celebrated and gravitated around while they were in New York and in the Northeastern of the United States during the 40s and 50s.

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Re: Chicanos Tattoos on Blacks.

Unread post by mayugastank » September 23rd, 2010, 8:15 pm

Vicious wrote"

But don't you think that some CHicano art has been influenced by some of the the other urban styles, hip hop, stoner, punk rock, and especially Catholic art.

Mayugastank replies"

NO. Chicano style tattoos influenced hip hop and NOT the other way around. I dont expect you to understand to well being from the midwest were chicano barrios are under 20 years young. But out here much of what is done and tattooed on EVERY race is a knock off of chicano gang styles. Yes religious icons and such hold significance for the cholo -but that style is was phased out about 30 years ago-for instance tattoos that were originally chicano that are now sported by everyone.
Caligraphy-black and grey-ghost fading(smoke incoporated into designs ) many of the scenes -baseball logos-area codes-shout out to your sides-EAST SIDE-WEST SIDE-/tattoos with gang shit on the back of teh hands-neck/head. As an example check out NATE KANE-or EMINEM-or 50 cent and youll see completely what chicano designs are. Its a little bit arrogant of whites to tattoo those designs on every race-without permission. Blacks would be in an uproar if it was done to them. Yet its an easy thing to do because ---people assume (even your posts do ) that chicano art is limited to VIRGEN MARY-DAY OF THE DEAD-AZTEC CALENDARS-.......but their is a whole subset that is entirely different from hiphop/punk /catholic art and aztec designs. Those styles I mention are blasted on CASHIS. The bandana wearing skull/the block writing/the smoke/the guns and bullets. I mean it would be like me ......braiding my hair-sagging my pants-singing rap-while eating a plate of gumbo at a soul food restaurant while at the same time denying that anything of what I am doing isnt entirely black american!!! YET this is so MUCH MORE personal then a fools hairstyle-or his choice in music---those things you either grow out of or change up but how does a guy like CASHIS ....EVER erase a full body tattoo-style completely chicano themed? I mean does he even know were it came from? Does anyone outside the states of CA-AZ-NV-TX-NM? 5 states! shoot even chicanos or mexicans outside these states dont know about the entire art style we created...WHY: because we have been shut out by MIAMI INK-KAT VON D( whose entire tattoo getdown was robbed from EAST LOS) -shows like OC choppers(dude sports a nuestra familia tattoo) TAPOUT-(how many of those nutz have chicano tatts?)--WWE -check out the undertakers tattoos!---and now BET....every rapper has got one tattoo with a throwback to East Los.
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