Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

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Re: Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

Unread post by Babmuk » June 29th, 2008, 5:05 pm

Mobsters?Never Heard of a single one that was killed during 2000-2006,but had information that there were like 3 high ranked guys in that period of time.I think they were purchasing property or maybe something else,if really interesting i could ask somebody maybe he knows.Toronto has alot of italians.And as i seen all their buissnesses were legal.

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Re: Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

Unread post by razbojnik » June 29th, 2008, 5:24 pm

Babmuk wrote:Mobsters?Never Heard of a single one that was killed during 2000-2006,but had information that there were like 3 high ranked guys in that period of time.I think they were purchasing property or maybe something else,if really interesting i could ask somebody maybe he knows.Toronto has alot of italians.And as i seen all their buissnesses were legal.
Tell me about the Mediterranean Social Club on Danforth. Does it have something to do with Italian mobsters? AND YEEEEEEEEEES, I want to know everything about Russian mobsters in Toronto. Please do so tell me everything you can find out. Thanks.

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Re: Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

Unread post by Babmuk » June 29th, 2008, 5:31 pm

About italians you should ask westside,he's guru of OC knowledge,especially italians.

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Re: Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

Unread post by razbojnik » June 29th, 2008, 5:58 pm

Babmuk wrote:About italians you should ask westside,he's guru of OC knowledge,especially italians.
Well then tell me about Russians.

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Re: Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

Unread post by thewestside » June 29th, 2008, 7:18 pm

razbojnik wrote:And yes back to topic. 5 biggest. Westside can you tell me the top 10 biggest, most powerful, richest or just the overall organized crime syndicates in the world.

So far we have the Russian mafia, Italian mafia, Albanian mafia, Columbian cartels, Mexican cartels, Chinese Triads, Japanese Yakuza. That's 7. How about the other 3??? Westside what would you put along with those on the list?
The ones you listed above are the groups I would put at the top of international organized crime. If you wanted to round out a top ten, I suppose you could add Eastern European groups (who are often mistaken to be part of the Russian Mob), Middle Eastern groups (as they control much of the world's heroin supply), and either Southeast Asian groups (who also control a good portion of the heroin supply) or Nigerian groups out of Africa (who are major heroin traffickers, as well as involved in multimillion dollar fraud schemes.)
Azure9920 wrote:What people fail to take into account is that all these groups(Cartels, LCN, Yakuza, Triads, Russians, etc) are all many different groups that are just being lumped together.


That's true.
My top 5:

LCN/Ndrangheta(tie)(Italian), Solntsevskaya(Russian), Yamaguchi-gumi(Yakuza), 14k/Sun Yee On(Triads), Aranello Felix/ Fuentes Cartels(Mexicans)(leaning more towards Fuentes), Veliki Trnovac's group or Princ Dobroshi(maybe? Even after the crippling arrests) for the Albanians, I don't think *overall* any certain ethnic groups criminal activities overshadow each other as a whole, since each has it's share of large criminal organizations, as well as many, many smaller groups.
When you say the LCN and 'Ndrangheta are tied, by LCN to you mean the Cosa Nostra in Sicily or the American LCN? And if you are going to list them by specific group within the syndicate, would you not list a particular clan or family?

According to a retired law enforcement officer that I talk to occassionally (he worked organized crime for over 40 years, including in Russia) the Solntsevo (Solntsevskaya) syndicate may no longer be the most powerful in Russia. He said they lost ground to both the Izmaylovo (Izmailovskaya) and Tambov syndicates some time ago.

True, the Yamaguchi-Gumi and the Sun Yee On are the largest and most powerful Yakuza and Triad groups in Japan and China.

The most powerful Mexican group right now is the Sinaloa cartel, with the Gulf cartel coming in a close second. The Arellano Felix (Tijuana) and Fuentes (Juarez) cartels have lost power over the last decade or so.

What, no Colombian groups?

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Re: Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

Unread post by thewestside » June 29th, 2008, 7:29 pm

razbojnik wrote: Well then tell me about Russians.
A good place for information is the RCMP (Royal Candian Mounted Police) reports on organized crime.

Here's part of a 2006 report -

(Keep in mind that the Russians fall under "Eurasian organized crime." E/EEOC in the report stands for Eurasian/Eastern European organized crime.

Eurasian / Eastern European Organized Crime

Since 1989, remarkable change has occurred in the political, social, and economic climate of the FSU and its satellite states. One of the most surprising transformations has been the maturation and expansion of pre-existing underground economies into fully realized transnational organized crime syndicates. E / EEOC is not limited to FSU-based organizations, but includes groups from the former Soviet Bloc nations of Central and Eastern Europe.

E / EEOC arrived on this continent fully formed. Most key groups have inextricable links to parent organizations in Russia and the FSU. Many Western observers view E / EEOC as a vertically integrated phenomenon, analogous to traditional mafia-type groups. Increasing evidence suggests, however, that a more fluid, cellular-type structure is the norm. Members of different E / EEOC cells may come together informally to carry out different types of opportunistic criminal activity.

Within the larger E / EEOC context, groups tend to follow ethnic lines. There is a “Soviet factor” in some criminal relationships, meaning that groups from the FSU work with each other more readily than with non-FSU groups. When specific resources or skill sets are required but not readily available, E / EEOC groups may build partnerships across ethnic and criminal lines.

Senior members / associates of Russian groups appear to recognize and accept the hegemony of a single avtorityet (criminal authority), who plays an important role in dispute resolution, decision-making and the administration of criminal funds. Another important figure in the Russian criminal environment is the krisha, or “roof, ” a sponsor whose authority and influence provides protection and stability. In Canada, E / EEOC networks tend to focus on key individuals (who may or may not be avtorityety in the original sense of the word) who act as criminal consultants — dispensing advice, making introductions, and providing “seed money” — in exchange for a cut of the final profits.

The traditional hub of E / EEOC activity in Canada is the Toronto area. E / EEOC is also present in Vancouver and other urban centers. Criminal activity is not limited to Russian entities, but also includes criminals with a range of Eastern and Central European ethnicities. E / EEOC is one of several criminal entities drawn to the diamond trade in the Canadian north. This is significant because Canada is currently among the top four producers of rough diamonds in the world and is projected to become the world’s leading producer over the next two to three decades.

In the United States, New York City remains a significant center of E / EEOC activity. Additionally E / EEOC activity has been noted in major metropolitan areas where there is a significant Eurasian / Eastern European population. E / EEOC signature activities in the United States range from money laundering and drug trafficking to various types of fraud. Aside from Russian organizations, ethnic E / EEOC interests operating in the United States include Polish, Romanian and Armenian groups.

Forecast

While Russian and FSU organizations will continue to dominate, analysis indicates that emerging forms of E / EEOC from the former Soviet Bloc nations of Central and Eastern Europe - including Lithuanian, Latvian, Polish, Romanian, Armenian and Roma (Gypsy) groups — will challenge law enforcement in both Canada and the United States.

E / EEOC groups will continue to build limited partnerships across ethnic lines to maximize strategic capabilities.

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Re: Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

Unread post by Azure9920 » June 29th, 2008, 7:29 pm

thewestside wrote:
razbojnik wrote:And yes back to topic. 5 biggest. Westside can you tell me the top 10 biggest, most powerful, richest or just the overall organized crime syndicates in the world.

So far we have the Russian mafia, Italian mafia, Albanian mafia, Columbian cartels, Mexican cartels, Chinese Triads, Japanese Yakuza. That's 7. How about the other 3??? Westside what would you put along with those on the list?
The ones you listed above are the groups I would put at the top of international organized crime. If you wanted to round out a top ten, I suppose you could add Eastern European groups (who are often mistaken to be part of the Russian Mob), Middle Eastern groups (as they control much of the world's heroin supply), and either Southeast Asian groups (who also control a good portion of the heroin supply) or Nigerian groups out of Africa (who are major heroin traffickers, as well as involved in multimillion dollar fraud schemes.)
Azure9920 wrote:What people fail to take into account is that all these groups(Cartels, LCN, Yakuza, Triads, Russians, etc) are all many different groups that are just being lumped together.


That's true.
My top 5:

LCN/Ndrangheta(tie)(Italian), Solntsevskaya(Russian), Yamaguchi-gumi(Yakuza), 14k/Sun Yee On(Triads), Aranello Felix/ Fuentes Cartels(Mexicans)(leaning more towards Fuentes), Veliki Trnovac's group or Princ Dobroshi(maybe? Even after the crippling arrests) for the Albanians, I don't think *overall* any certain ethnic groups criminal activities overshadow each other as a whole, since each has it's share of large criminal organizations, as well as many, many smaller groups.
When you say the LCN and 'Ndrangheta are tied, by LCN to you mean the Cosa Nostra in Sicily or the American LCN? And if you are going to list them by specific group within the syndicate, would you not list a particular clan or family?

According to a retired law enforcement officer that I talk to occassionally (he worked organized crime for over 40 years, including in Russia) the Solntsevo (Solntsevskaya) syndicate may no longer be the most powerful in Russia. He said they lost ground to both the Izmaylovo (Izmailovskaya) and Tambov syndicates some time ago.

True, the Yamaguchi-Gumi and the Sun Yee On are the largest and most powerful Yakuza and Triad groups in Japan and China.

The most powerful Mexican group right now is the Sinaloa cartel, with the Gulf cartel coming in a close second. The Arellano Felix (Tijuana) and Fuentes (Juarez) cartels have lost power over the last decade or so.

What, no Colombian groups?
Umm, I meant the Sicilians, since we're talking about biggest and most "powerful", the American LCN is a highly regionalized entity from what I've read. I don't know enough to name off particular clans or families. I completely forgot about the Columbians, I posted that when I was lost for sleep lol, but I'm not even sure to put up there for Columbians, Cali perhaps? Idk.

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Re: Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

Unread post by thewestside » June 29th, 2008, 7:31 pm

Azure9920 wrote:Umm, I meant the Sicilians, since we're talking about biggest and most "powerful", the American LCN is a highly regionalized entity from what I've read. I don't know enough to name off particular clans or families. I completely forgot about the Columbians, I posted that when I was lost for sleep lol, but I'm not even sure to put up there for Columbians, Cali perhaps? Idk.
The Cali cartel was largely broken up in the late 1990's. Over the last decade or so, the most powerful in Colombia as been the Norte del Valle (North Valley) cartel. However, they have suffered a number of arrests of their top leaders in recent years.

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Re: Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

Unread post by Babmuk » June 30th, 2008, 5:30 am

Well then tell me about Russians.
Ok,specially for you mathafucker i was talking t the guy and as i understood in Toronto never been a single thief in law.Whatever told westside about diamonds maybe it's right but from all activities it's 0.001%.There is not drugs trufficking.Like vietnamese got heir own shit,chinese own shit,routes of cocaine got nothing to do with Mob.ow arms trafficking,there is also no russian activities.for example in US their AK47 from asia not from Russia.In Canada there is no need for firearms.And to make it simple i'll tell you that everbody got their own territory and shit.But all that russian stuff overthere is so small though smbody can think otherwise.Most of the activities in Russia where they get their hands on oil.gas buissness and natural resourses and so on.
So being there in Canada dont be afraid of russian Mob.

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Re: Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

Unread post by Vincetheprince » June 30th, 2008, 6:17 am

I live in Southern California and I heard that the Mexican Cartels are killing people even tourists that they think are disrupting or getting in thier way of Drug trafficking

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Re: Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

Unread post by razbojnik » June 30th, 2008, 8:29 am

Vincetheprince wrote:I live in Southern California and I heard that the Mexican Cartels are killing people even tourists that they think are disrupting or getting in thier way of Drug trafficking
Well then don't go to Mexico.

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Re: Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

Unread post by razbojnik » June 30th, 2008, 8:30 am

Babmuk wrote:
Well then tell me about Russians.
Ok,specially for you mathafucker i was talking t the guy and as i understood in Toronto never been a single thief in law.Whatever told westside about diamonds maybe it's right but from all activities it's 0.001%.There is not drugs trufficking.Like vietnamese got heir own shit,chinese own shit,routes of cocaine got nothing to do with Mob.ow arms trafficking,there is also no russian activities.for example in US their AK47 from asia not from Russia.In Canada there is no need for firearms.And to make it simple i'll tell you that everbody got their own territory and shit.But all that russian stuff overthere is so small though smbody can think otherwise.Most of the activities in Russia where they get their hands on oil.gas buissness and natural resourses and so on.
So being there in Canada dont be afraid of russian Mob.
I'm pretty sure of that. That's why Robert's brother's friends look very normal.

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Re: Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

Unread post by thewestside » June 30th, 2008, 3:25 pm

Babmuk wrote:
Well then tell me about Russians.
Ok,specially for you mathafucker i was talking t the guy and as i understood in Toronto never been a single thief in law.Whatever told westside about diamonds maybe it's right but from all activities it's 0.001%.There is not drugs trufficking.Like vietnamese got heir own shit,chinese own shit,routes of cocaine got nothing to do with Mob.ow arms trafficking,there is also no russian activities.for example in US their AK47 from asia not from Russia.In Canada there is no need for firearms.And to make it simple i'll tell you that everbody got their own territory and shit.But all that russian stuff overthere is so small though smbody can think otherwise.Most of the activities in Russia where they get their hands on oil.gas buissness and natural resourses and so on.
So being there in Canada dont be afraid of russian Mob.
Similar to Russian/Eastern European groups in the U.S., the ones in Toronto and other parts of Canada do not have a firm structured hierarchy like the Italian Mafia. They are active in smaller, more fluid groups aimed at short term, mutually beneficial activities. They are very adept at hiding their criminal operations behind legitimate business ventures. Russian/Eastern European crime groups in both Canada and the U.S. are among the most effective at pulling off multimillion dollar financial and insurance frauds. They are also heavily involved in large scale car theft rings, which are often exported abroad, as well as prostitution, shop-lifting rings, commodities smuggling, money laundering, and drug trafficking.
Vincetheprince wrote:I live in Southern California and I heard that the Mexican Cartels are killing people even tourists that they think are disrupting or getting in thier way of Drug trafficking
The Mexican government has begun to crack down harder on the cartels in recent years due to pressure from the U.S. government. As a result, the cartels have struck back against the government (similar to the Italians and Colombians in the past) and have killed hundreds of government and police officials. On top of that, the two most powerful cartels (Sinaloa and Gulf cartels) have been fighting a war that have left thousands dead. As I've said before, this is a sign of progress of a sort. The cartels have found that they can no longer get their way through simple bribery and intimidation, so they have resulted to direct confrontation with the government. The same thing happened in Italy and Colombia in the 1980's and 1990's. It's history repeating itself.

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Re: Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

Unread post by Vincetheprince » July 1st, 2008, 5:04 am

thats exactly what my uncle told me, thanks thewestside you gave me a great answer compared to razbojnik, what do you think about what the Mexican Cartels are doing? what do you think will be the outcome?

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Re: Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

Unread post by Babmuk » July 1st, 2008, 7:18 am

Similar to Russian/Eastern European groups in the U.S., the ones in Toronto and other parts of Canada do not have a firm structured hierarchy like the Italian Mafia. They are active in smaller, more fluid groups aimed at short term, mutually beneficial activities. They are very adept at hiding their criminal operations behind legitimate business ventures. Russian/Eastern European crime groups in both Canada and the U.S. are among the most effective at pulling off multimillion dollar financial and insurance frauds. They are also heavily involved in large scale car theft rings, which are often exported abroad, as well as prostitution, shop-lifting rings, commodities smuggling, money laundering, and drug trafficking.
Ok,that's the point that some russian small ass groups that probably got nothing to do with real thieves in laws doing some small thing it Toronto.As i understood from what guy told me that compare to real russian mob,toronto groups he called "virtuals".I ask him about prostitution and never had a positive answer that russians having heavy presence in Toronto though in alot of different countries yes they do.And question if talking about Toronto What russian gropus got to do with drug trafficking?I know they aint got their hands on heroin or cocaine..and weed,come on))
They are very adept at hiding their criminal operations behind legitimate business ventures.
That's remined me only italians overthere.

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Re: Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

Unread post by razbojnik » July 1st, 2008, 5:21 pm

Vincetheprince wrote:thats exactly what my uncle told me, thanks thewestside you gave me a great answer compared to razbojnik, what do you think about what the Mexican Cartels are doing? what do you think will be the outcome?
Aww lol.. I knew this too btw. The Mexican Drug War started in 2006, it was between those two cartels, as he said, and against the government. It is history repeating. A couple days ago a few government officials and his bodyguards or something were shot dead by these guys. So far over 4000 people are dead. This is all going on at the US-Mexico Border and in Mexico. Don't worry, it won't happen in Southern Cali. This is chain. The US wants drugs to be illigal so the politicians involved with the higher ranks among these guys could get rich, and what you didn't know is that the Italian mob secretly paid the US government in the 1920s and 1930s to keep alcohol illgal so they could make money off it. Otherwise there are plenty of ways they can legalize the drugs and limit them to people. For example, drugs kill less people than alcohol, cigarettes or even automobiles each year, but the difference between the drugs and those 3 things is those 3 things are legal and people can do as much as they want with them. The Mexican Drug cartels make the drugs, smuggle them across the border into the USA, then sell them to the local Mexican gangs in Southern Cali, which sell them to people like you and me because I'm normal, I have nothing to do with organized crime activity nor gang activity nor business nor politics nor the military. I don't know any people involved in those either so FBI stop calling me you don't have juresticion in Macedonia assholes and no warrant either from the UN, NATO or EU offices. And CIA should stop asking me for favours they owe me alot I ain't giving you Hashim Thaci bitch he owes me 4 million dollars. Damn. Ahem. So yeah. The outcome will be a basiclly long ass war, the government will win, there are no ceasefires here because this isn't a military type group, nor paramilitary, even though they have those types of groups enforcing them, it's usually some lighly armed, poorly trained and equipped Mexican dudes with assault rifles, sniper rifles, smg's, and RPG's whatever have you, it's not friggin Arkan's Tigers nor FARC/ELN. The war will be long if it keeps on like this, the Mexican government will continue to crackdown, and maybe within a couple of years to a decade or so, they will weaken, the flow of drugs from these groups will continue, but not to the same extent as now, just like with the Medellin Cartel.

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Re: Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

Unread post by Vincetheprince » July 2nd, 2008, 7:10 am

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, but true

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Re: Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

Unread post by thewestside » July 2nd, 2008, 3:53 pm

Vincetheprince wrote:thats exactly what my uncle told me, thanks thewestside you gave me a great answer compared to razbojnik, what do you think about what the Mexican Cartels are doing? what do you think will be the outcome?
Well, as I've said, the Mexican cartels have had to resort to taking the government head on because they are finding they can no longer get their way through simple bribery and intimidation. As long as a national government stands firm, it has the advantage over any organized crime syndicate, especially if it has the will of the country's citizens behind it. That's how both Italy and Colombia were able to have such a big effect on the Mafia and the cartels respectively.
Babmuk wrote:Ok,that's the point that some russian small ass groups that probably got nothing to do with real thieves in laws doing some small thing it Toronto.As i understood from what guy told me that compare to real russian mob,toronto groups he called "virtuals".I ask him about prostitution and never had a positive answer that russians having heavy presence in Toronto though in alot of different countries yes they do.And question if talking about Toronto What russian gropus got to do with drug trafficking?I know they aint got their hands on heroin or cocaine..and weed,come on))
What you said is true to a point. The Russian mobsters in the U.S., almost without exception, do not have strong ties to the powerful syndicates based in Russia. And the reason is, as one former law enforcement officer told me, is that the Russians have a healthy respect for American law enforcement. They have virtual free reign in most other parts of the globe and don't want the problems that would come from trying to expand into the U.S. The Russians have less fear of Canadian authorities, but it's still relatively close to the U.S. So, even in Canada, you won't find the true Russian Mob heavyweights that you will elsewhere.
razbojnik wrote:Aww lol.. I knew this too btw. The Mexican Drug War started in 2006, it was between those two cartels, as he said, and against the government. It is history repeating. A couple days ago a few government officials and his bodyguards or something were shot dead by these guys. So far over 4000 people are dead. This is all going on at the US-Mexico Border and in Mexico. Don't worry, it won't happen in Southern Cali. This is chain. The US wants drugs to be illigal so the politicians involved with the higher ranks among these guys could get rich, and what you didn't know is that the Italian mob secretly paid the US government in the 1920s and 1930s to keep alcohol illgal so they could make money off it. Otherwise there are plenty of ways they can legalize the drugs and limit them to people. For example, drugs kill less people than alcohol, cigarettes or even automobiles each year, but the difference between the drugs and those 3 things is those 3 things are legal and people can do as much as they want with them. The Mexican Drug cartels make the drugs, smuggle them across the border into the USA, then sell them to the local Mexican gangs in Southern Cali, which sell them to people like you and me because I'm normal, I have nothing to do with organized crime activity nor gang activity nor business nor politics nor the military. I don't know any people involved in those either so FBI stop calling me you don't have juresticion in Macedonia assholes and no warrant either from the UN, NATO or EU offices. And CIA should stop asking me for favours they owe me alot I ain't giving you Hashim Thaci bitch he owes me 4 million dollars. Damn. Ahem. So yeah. The outcome will be a basiclly long ass war, the government will win, there are no ceasefires here because this isn't a military type group, nor paramilitary, even though they have those types of groups enforcing them, it's usually some lighly armed, poorly trained and equipped Mexican dudes with assault rifles, sniper rifles, smg's, and RPG's whatever have you, it's not friggin Arkan's Tigers nor FARC/ELN. The war will be long if it keeps on like this, the Mexican government will continue to crackdown, and maybe within a couple of years to a decade or so, they will weaken, the flow of drugs from these groups will continue, but not to the same extent as now, just like with the Medellin Cartel.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. With enough time, and as the Mexican people become more and more tired of the killings, the government will slowly begin to win the war against the cartels. Just like what has happened in Italy and Colombia in the past. Of course, that doesn't mean they will completely wipe the cartels out. The cartels will be weakened and have to take a more low key approach like the Italians and Colombians had to. It remains to be seen which cartels will best survive the war between themselves, as well as the crackdown by the government. It will likely be the ones that follow the pattern set by the Italians and Colombians after they suffered crackdowns and wars within their own countries. They become much more low key and resort to bribery, keeping killings to a minimum. And for the record, the two warring cartels right now - the Sinaloa and Gulf cartels - have well trained paramilitary groups. Sinaloa has the Los Negros group and the Gulf has the Los Zetas group. But the cartels also have no shortage of scores of relativley untrained gunmen that are expendable and work for pretty cheap wages.

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Re: Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

Unread post by razbojnik » July 2nd, 2008, 8:03 pm

I see. How much of a cheap wage are we talking about here?

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Re: Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

Unread post by thewestside » July 2nd, 2008, 9:21 pm

razbojnik wrote:I see. How much of a cheap wage are we talking about here?
Not much. The cartels have actually posted ads recruiting hitmen.

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Re: Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

Unread post by razbojnik » July 3rd, 2008, 12:10 am

thewestside wrote:
razbojnik wrote:I see. How much of a cheap wage are we talking about here?
Not much. The cartels have actually posted ads recruiting hitmen.
ROFL. Ahh now that's something that you could only do in a third world country that's corrupt as hell and a warzone. I'd love to see some Mafia boss post some ads in the news paper or around New York City recruiting a hitman...

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Re: Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

Unread post by Vincetheprince » July 3rd, 2008, 12:27 am

hahahahahaha

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Re: Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

Unread post by razbojnik » July 3rd, 2008, 2:39 am

Vincetheprince wrote:hahahahahaha
Warum hältst du, wie der zu lachen? Ich muss mein Messer nehmen und dein Auge heraus schneiden.

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Re: Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

Unread post by mnjmc » July 3rd, 2008, 3:12 am

thewestside wrote:
Vincetheprince wrote:thats exactly what my uncle told me, thanks thewestside you gave me a great answer compared to razbojnik, what do you think about what the Mexican Cartels are doing? what do you think will be the outcome?
Well, as I've said, the Mexican cartels have had to resort to taking the government head on because they are finding they can no longer get their way through simple bribery and intimidation. As long as a national government stands firm, it has the advantage over any organized crime syndicate, especially if it has the will of the country's citizens behind it. That's how both Italy and Colombia were able to have such a big effect on the Mafia and the cartels respectively.
Babmuk wrote:Ok,that's the point that some russian small ass groups that probably got nothing to do with real thieves in laws doing some small thing it Toronto.As i understood from what guy told me that compare to real russian mob,toronto groups he called "virtuals".I ask him about prostitution and never had a positive answer that russians having heavy presence in Toronto though in alot of different countries yes they do.And question if talking about Toronto What russian gropus got to do with drug trafficking?I know they aint got their hands on heroin or cocaine..and weed,come on))
What you said is true to a point. The Russian mobsters in the U.S., almost without exception, do not have strong ties to the powerful syndicates based in Russia. And the reason is, as one former law enforcement officer told me, is that the Russians have a healthy respect for American law enforcement. They have virtual free reign in most other parts of the globe and don't want the problems that would come from trying to expand into the U.S. The Russians have less fear of Canadian authorities, but it's still relatively close to the U.S. So, even in Canada, you won't find the true Russian Mob heavyweights that you will elsewhere.
razbojnik wrote:Aww lol.. I knew this too btw. The Mexican Drug War started in 2006, it was between those two cartels, as he said, and against the government. It is history repeating. A couple days ago a few government officials and his bodyguards or something were shot dead by these guys. So far over 4000 people are dead. This is all going on at the US-Mexico Border and in Mexico. Don't worry, it won't happen in Southern Cali. This is chain. The US wants drugs to be illigal so the politicians involved with the higher ranks among these guys could get rich, and what you didn't know is that the Italian mob secretly paid the US government in the 1920s and 1930s to keep alcohol illgal so they could make money off it. Otherwise there are plenty of ways they can legalize the drugs and limit them to people. For example, drugs kill less people than alcohol, cigarettes or even automobiles each year, but the difference between the drugs and those 3 things is those 3 things are legal and people can do as much as they want with them. The Mexican Drug cartels make the drugs, smuggle them across the border into the USA, then sell them to the local Mexican gangs in Southern Cali, which sell them to people like you and me because I'm normal, I have nothing to do with organized crime activity nor gang activity nor business nor politics nor the military. I don't know any people involved in those either so FBI stop calling me you don't have juresticion in Macedonia assholes and no warrant either from the UN, NATO or EU offices. And CIA should stop asking me for favours they owe me alot I ain't giving you Hashim Thaci bitch he owes me 4 million dollars. Damn. Ahem. So yeah. The outcome will be a basiclly long ass war, the government will win, there are no ceasefires here because this isn't a military type group, nor paramilitary, even though they have those types of groups enforcing them, it's usually some lighly armed, poorly trained and equipped Mexican dudes with assault rifles, sniper rifles, smg's, and RPG's whatever have you, it's not friggin Arkan's Tigers nor FARC/ELN. The war will be long if it keeps on like this, the Mexican government will continue to crackdown, and maybe within a couple of years to a decade or so, they will weaken, the flow of drugs from these groups will continue, but not to the same extent as now, just like with the Medellin Cartel.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. With enough time, and as the Mexican people become more and more tired of the killings, the government will slowly begin to win the war against the cartels. Just like what has happened in Italy and Colombia in the past. Of course, that doesn't mean they will completely wipe the cartels out. The cartels will be weakened and have to take a more low key approach like the Italians and Colombians had to. It remains to be seen which cartels will best survive the war between themselves, as well as the crackdown by the government. It will likely be the ones that follow the pattern set by the Italians and Colombians after they suffered crackdowns and wars within their own countries. They become much more low key and resort to bribery, keeping killings to a minimum. And for the record, the two warring cartels right now - the Sinaloa and Gulf cartels - have well trained paramilitary groups. Sinaloa has the Los Negros group and the Gulf has the Los Zetas group. But the cartels also have no shortage of scores of relativley untrained gunmen that are expendable and work for pretty cheap wages.
A correction here is in order. The Sinaloa cartel's paramilitary group is called Gente Nueva, which is what el Chapo started. Los Negros were people under Alfredo Beltran and Edgar Valvez "la Barbie". Los Negros have been wiped out by the Zetas, Gente Nueva have been doing a much better confronting the Zetas. The Beltran family has seperated itself from the once called Federation and now is working with the Zetas.

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Re: Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

Unread post by thewestside » July 3rd, 2008, 4:25 am

mnjmc wrote: A correction here is in order. The Sinaloa cartel's paramilitary group is called Gente Nueva, which is what el Chapo started. Los Negros were people under Alfredo Beltran and Edgar Valvez "la Barbie". Los Negros have been wiped out by the Zetas, Gente Nueva have been doing a much better confronting the Zetas. The Beltran family has seperated itself from the once called Federation and now is working with the Zetas.
According to a number of reports just this year, the Los Negros paramilitary group is still very much alive and active. And since when did the Beltran Leyva Organization separate itself from the Sinaloa federation and join forces with the Zetas? The Beltran Leyva group was just recently named under the Foreign Narcotics Kingpin Designation Act as part of the Sinaloa cartel (link below).

http://www.usembassy-mexico.gov/eng/rel ... ngpin.html

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Re: Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

Unread post by Babmuk » July 3rd, 2008, 2:58 pm

What you said is true to a point. The Russian mobsters in the U.S., almost without exception, do not have strong ties to the powerful syndicates based in Russia. And the reason is, as one former law enforcement officer told me, is that the Russians have a healthy respect for American law enforcement. They have virtual free reign in most other parts of the globe and don't want the problems that would come from trying to expand into the U.S. The Russians have less fear of Canadian authorities, but it's still relatively close to the U.S. So, even in Canada, you won't find the true Russian Mob heavyweights that you will elsewhere.
Yeah,for me it's kinda funky when i hear alot of whinings about 5-0's in US or especially in Canada.Alot of officers doing their work ok.Some getting caught on illigal actions but still they are way better than russian police.U know that in Russia there are police gangs?That do everything that any criminal can do.Selling drugs,"krysha",murders and so on plus taking money from everybody,wanna park your car and find it when u come back-PAY etc.
Actually there in Russia special jails for cops.Koz nothing good will happen to you if you'll get to prison where regular ppl stay.

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Re: Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

Unread post by Azure9920 » July 3rd, 2008, 4:36 pm

Babmuk wrote:
What you said is true to a point. The Russian mobsters in the U.S., almost without exception, do not have strong ties to the powerful syndicates based in Russia. And the reason is, as one former law enforcement officer told me, is that the Russians have a healthy respect for American law enforcement. They have virtual free reign in most other parts of the globe and don't want the problems that would come from trying to expand into the U.S. The Russians have less fear of Canadian authorities, but it's still relatively close to the U.S. So, even in Canada, you won't find the true Russian Mob heavyweights that you will elsewhere.
Yeah,for me it's kinda funky when i hear alot of whinings about 5-0's in US or especially in Canada.Alot of officers doing their work ok.Some getting caught on illigal actions but still they are way better than russian police.U know that in Russia there are police gangs?That do everything that any criminal can do.Selling drugs,"krysha",murders and so on plus taking money from everybody,wanna park your car and find it when u come back-PAY etc.
Actually there in Russia special jails for cops.Koz nothing good will happen to you if you'll get to prison where regular ppl stay.
Cops go into PC here.

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Re: Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

Unread post by Vincetheprince » July 4th, 2008, 12:31 am

You will find crooked cops everywhere you go

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Re: Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

Unread post by razbojnik » July 4th, 2008, 9:32 am

Babmuk wrote:
What you said is true to a point. The Russian mobsters in the U.S., almost without exception, do not have strong ties to the powerful syndicates based in Russia. And the reason is, as one former law enforcement officer told me, is that the Russians have a healthy respect for American law enforcement. They have virtual free reign in most other parts of the globe and don't want the problems that would come from trying to expand into the U.S. The Russians have less fear of Canadian authorities, but it's still relatively close to the U.S. So, even in Canada, you won't find the true Russian Mob heavyweights that you will elsewhere.
Yeah,for me it's kinda funky when i hear alot of whinings about 5-0's in US or especially in Canada.Alot of officers doing their work ok.Some getting caught on illigal actions but still they are way better than russian police.U know that in Russia there are police gangs?That do everything that any criminal can do.Selling drugs,"krysha",murders and so on plus taking money from everybody,wanna park your car and find it when u come back-PAY etc.
Actually there in Russia special jails for cops.Koz nothing good will happen to you if you'll get to prison where regular ppl stay.
Alot of your posts made me wonder if you were really Russian or not with all that anti-Russian information you supplied us, and instead of gloryfiying Russians like a good Russian should you have been trying to make them look as lowlife and weak as possible. It's official you are not Russian. So where are you from? Poland? Ukraine? ???

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Re: Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

Unread post by razbojnik » July 4th, 2008, 9:38 am

Azure9920 wrote:
Babmuk wrote:
What you said is true to a point. The Russian mobsters in the U.S., almost without exception, do not have strong ties to the powerful syndicates based in Russia. And the reason is, as one former law enforcement officer told me, is that the Russians have a healthy respect for American law enforcement. They have virtual free reign in most other parts of the globe and don't want the problems that would come from trying to expand into the U.S. The Russians have less fear of Canadian authorities, but it's still relatively close to the U.S. So, even in Canada, you won't find the true Russian Mob heavyweights that you will elsewhere.
Yeah,for me it's kinda funky when i hear alot of whinings about 5-0's in US or especially in Canada.Alot of officers doing their work ok.Some getting caught on illigal actions but still they are way better than russian police.U know that in Russia there are police gangs?That do everything that any criminal can do.Selling drugs,"krysha",murders and so on plus taking money from everybody,wanna park your car and find it when u come back-PAY etc.
Actually there in Russia special jails for cops.Koz nothing good will happen to you if you'll get to prison where regular ppl stay.
Cops go into PC here.
If you ask a cop if he is a cop or not, if he says no, it's called entrapment and it could help your case if you are caught using this method of dishonest law enforcement. Text is also the best evidence, especially when it comes to internet based cases. You have a bunch of places this data is recorded into a database, be it the webmaster's database, the forum supplier's database, as well as Alonzo having access to everyone's private information through all the recorded IP addresses, GUID's and what else you have. Through an IP address you can find a person's address, location and even name, phone number, and other personal records. And through the name you can find what the person looks like, and this isn't only available to law enforcement either...

If I had a grudge against Alonzo, for example, I would put this site into a certain tool you can find anywhere on the internet and it would give you all of the registration details aboutt he website, so this being Alonzo's address, phone number and whatever else you need to register a site. Maybe I've said too much... :P

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Re: Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

Unread post by mnjmc » July 4th, 2008, 12:19 pm

thewestside wrote:
mnjmc wrote: A correction here is in order. The Sinaloa cartel's paramilitary group is called Gente Nueva, which is what el Chapo started. Los Negros were people under Alfredo Beltran and Edgar Valvez "la Barbie". Los Negros have been wiped out by the Zetas, Gente Nueva have been doing a much better confronting the Zetas. The Beltran family has seperated itself from the once called Federation and now is working with the Zetas.
According to a number of reports just this year, the Los Negros paramilitary group is still very much alive and active. And since when did the Beltran Leyva Organization separate itself from the Sinaloa federation and join forces with the Zetas? The Beltran Leyva group was just recently named under the Foreign Narcotics Kingpin Designation Act as part of the Sinaloa cartel (link below).

http://www.usembassy-mexico.gov/eng/rel ... ngpin.html
This came from Stratfor, although I disagree on a lot of what they say in this article. For one the Beltranes had dealing with the Zetas I believe since late 07. Also the Carrillos were El Chapo's enemies ever since he had Rodolfo Carrillo killed in Culiacan.

Los Negros were used to fight the Zetas in Nuevo Laredo and in the state of Guerrero. They pretty much failed to beat the Zetas. And los Negros were a group funded by the Beltran Family and run Alfredo Beltran and Edgar Valdez.


Mexico Security Memo: May 19, 2008


Security Forces Deployed to Sinaloa
The Mexican government deployed 2,700 troops and federal law enforcement officials to Culiacan and Novolato, Sinaloa state, on May 13 to conduct counternarcotics operations. Since coming into office in December 2006, President Felipe Calderon has prioritized combating organized crime throughout Mexico. So far most of the government’s efforts have focused on Mexico’s border with Texas, essentially giving the Sinaloa cartel a free pass to conduct normal operations.

While the government has sent troops and federal police to Sinaloa state before, this deployment is the largest yet under the Calderon administration. But whether sending just 2,700 security forces to a city with a population of more than 745,000 people significantly will disrupt narcotics operations, much less in the larger region, remains to be seen.

Pressure on Sinaloa Signals Factional Splits
The Juarez cartel under the leadership of Vicente Carrillo Fuentes reportedly has decided to break ties with the Sinaloa cartel and its leader, Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman Loera. This fracture could be due to the increase in pressure on the Sinaloa cartel due to moves by the Mexican government, which have included the interception by federal agents and military personnel of some 19 tons of various forms of narcotics over the past three months in Chihuahua state.

The disruption of drug trafficking operations in other areas of Sinaloa influence has sparked conflict between the smaller cartels operating under the Sinaloa cartel. This is a trend we expect to continue due to the increase in federal and military activities disrupting operations in these regions, as the pressure is now forcing individual cartels to look out for their own interests. Government pressure on one cartel can create opportunities for affiliated cartels to betray the pressured cartel for financial gain. This may be happening among the factions of the Sinaloa cartel. As El Chapo and his organization come under more pressure, the groups may be smelling blood in the water. One of these is the Beltran Leyva brothers’ faction.

Following the May 13 arrival of troops in Sinaloa state, federal and local government officials confirmed that the Beltran Leyva brothers were cutting ties with El Chapo. One of the three brothers, Arturo Beltran Leyva, is believed responsible for ordering the targeted assassinations of Edgar Millan Gomez and Roberto Velasco Bravo, two high-ranking federal law enforcement officials in Mexico City. Another brother, Alfredo Beltran, was a high-level commander for the Sinaloa cartel until his arrest in January in Culiacan in an operation led by Millan Gomez. There is speculation that the intelligence that led to Alfredo Beltran’s arrest came from El Chapo, and that the death of Edgar Guzman Beltran, El Chapo’s son, last week was retribution for that betrayal.

Significantly, since the capture of the five operatives of the hit squad El Nica — which killed Millan Gomez and Velasco — allegedly contracted out by Arturo Beltran, we have not seen any further assassinations of high-level Mexican federal officials. We have seen the recent resignations of several high-level local police officials, however.
El Nica used very sophisticated tactics in the murders of Millan Gomez and Velasco. Such operations require training, practice and time. El Nica is only one organization that did the bidding of the drug cartels; others can be called on to the bidding of powerful men like Arturo Beltran.

Zeta-Beltran Leyva Alliance?
Reports began surfacing early the morning of May 19 that Heriberto Lazcano, leader of Los Zetas, and Arturo Beltran Leyva have collaborated since mid-2007. The Mexican press has quoted U.S. counternarcotic sources as saying the rumored split of Los Zetas and the Gulf cartel is true. A Zeta-Beltran Leyva alliance would account for the recent uptick in violence across Sinaloa. It also would explain the reported presence of Zetas at the murder of El Chapo’s son, Edgar Guzman. The recent arrests of 27 Zeta hit men transferring a 243 kilogram (about 536 pounds) shipment of cocaine in Sonora state meshes with the recent reports of the new alliance, given that the Sonora-Arizona drug smuggling route is reportedly controlled by the Beltran Leyva brothers. The Zeta hit men said during police interrogations that they were sent specifically to fight El Chapo’s men. And Mexican intelligence reports also state that authorities have reason to believe there is another group of Zetas in Sonora. A Zeta-Beltran Leyva alliance could represent a significant power shift in organized crime in Mexico.

This reported alliance has emerged as two cartel leaders have been unable to conduct normal business operations. The leader of the largest federation of cartels in Mexico, El Chapo, has seen his power significantly curtailed by his media notoriety and his status as the most wanted man in Mexico. This increase in attention has made it nearly impossible for him to conduct cartel operations, as he must constantly be on the move throughout Mexico and Central America to avoid capture. Meanwhile, the leader of the Gulf cartel, Osiel Cardenas, has been imprisoned in the United States for the past few years — essentially leaving the Zetas to run the day-to-day operations of the Gulf cartel. The absence of these two cartel leaders has left a significant power vacuum that the new Zeta-Beltran Leyva alliance is eagerly looking to fill. As the military changes the situation on the ground, existing relationships will be pressured, and new relationships will be forged like the Zeta-Beltran Leyva alliance. The recent violence in Sinaloa could possibly have stemmed from this new alliance, as Arturo Beltran would likely be purging his ranks of El Chapo loyalists.

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Re: Top 5 Biggest Organized Crime Syndicates In The World

Unread post by Azure9920 » July 4th, 2008, 12:22 pm

There are ways to combat IP addresses being traced, though to be fair all an ip address leads to is the ISP address.

I looked up sgangs.com on the site I *think* you're talking about and all it returned was information about the host he used. Anyone using a website for a business purpose would use a company and its information in lieu of his own.

Though, I have no clue how any of this came out of me saying cops go into PC in prison.....it has nothing to do with them being corrupt or anything.

Also, entrapment doesn't work like that, for example if you're involved in an ongoing criminal enterprise and the Police Officer is undercover. Entrapment only protects those who aren't actively committing a crime, and the cop tries to bait them into committing a crime. A Drug Supplier whose organization has been infiltrated by the police can ask if they're cops all the time, and even bring it up in court, it won't affect the outcome. I loved that movie tho.

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