Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

There has been an increase in gang and youth groups in many Western European cities that have seen an influx of immigrants. There is also a significant organized crime coming from Eastern Europe In this section discuss Austria [Österreich], Denmark [ Danmark], England, France [FRANSS], Finland, Germany [Deutschland], Greece [Ελληνική, Elliniki], Ireland, Italy [italiana], Netherlands [Nederland], Norway [Norge], Rossiyskaya], Scotland, Spain [España] Sweden [Sverige] and the UK including any place on the Western European continent.
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Azure9920
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Unread post by Azure9920 » June 4th, 2008, 5:37 pm

JohnnyRed wrote:
Azure9920 wrote:
JohnnyRed wrote:I forgot to put the robbery that amounted to $418,000,000 USD that yes, was made by albanians. they stole 106 million and left behind 312 million because they had no room left to put the money in. and it resulted in the biggest heist in world history except that time in iran when they stole a billion. so dominiitalianporvida i would say albanians arent shit. when talking about organised crime they are an important group.

i have a book here by paul runde or something that says the albanian mafia is one of the most recent and most succesfull to ever reach across the world.
Just off the top of my head I could name 2 heists, oh no, I'm sorry, 3! That top your "biggest heist in world history", without including the Iranians.....

lol?
if you can think of some please tell us. and provide us with a source if you can. if you cant its alright. lol?
I don't feel like looking up sites, you can do that yourself:

Antwerp Diamond Hiest, more than this mysterious Albanian heist you've yet to substantiate, also interestingly, commited by Italians.
Central Bank of Iraq robbery(the Iran you were talking about perhaps?)
RAMSBURY MANOR Robbery- over 100million.
ISABELLA STEWART GARDNER MUSEUM Robbery, worth 300million at the time, nearly 500 million in todays currency, also larger than your heist.
Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam, another 500million dollars worth of art.
a man mugged a courier carrying a briefcase containing 300 bearer bonds worth a total of $435 million, that was in London, also more than your little Albanian heist.

And there are a few others that come quite close to the Albanian heist(source plz?) that I didn't bother searching for.

Nice try though.

Azure9920
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Unread post by Azure9920 » June 4th, 2008, 5:42 pm

JohnnyRed wrote:
Azure9920 wrote:
JohnnyRed wrote:I forgot to put the robbery that amounted to $418,000,000 USD that yes, was made by albanians. they stole 106 million and left behind 312 million because they had no room left to put the money in. and it resulted in the biggest heist in world history except that time in iran when they stole a billion. so dominiitalianporvida i would say albanians arent shit. when talking about organised crime they are an important group.

i have a book here by paul runde or something that says the albanian mafia is one of the most recent and most succesfull to ever reach across the world.
Just off the top of my head I could name 2 heists, oh no, I'm sorry, 3! That top your "biggest heist in world history", without including the Iranians.....

lol?
if you can think of some please tell us. and provide us with a source if you can. if you cant its alright. lol?
I don't feel like looking up sites, you can do that yourself:

Antwerp Diamond Hiest, more than this mysterious Albanian heist you've yet to substantiate, also interestingly, commited by Italians.
Central Bank of Iraq robbery(the Iran you were talking about perhaps?)
RAMSBURY MANOR Robbery- over 100million.
ISABELLA STEWART GARDNER MUSEUM Robbery, worth 300million at the time, nearly 500 million in todays currency, also larger than your heist.
Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam, another 500million dollars worth of art.
a man mugged a courier carrying a briefcase containing 300 bearer bonds worth a total of $435 million, that was in London, also more than your little Albanian heist.

And there are a few others that come quite close to the Albanian heist(source plz?) that I didn't bother searching for.

Nice try though.

Azure9920
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Unread post by Azure9920 » June 4th, 2008, 5:46 pm

JohnnyRed wrote:
Azure9920 wrote:
JohnnyRed wrote:I forgot to put the robbery that amounted to $418,000,000 USD that yes, was made by albanians. they stole 106 million and left behind 312 million because they had no room left to put the money in. and it resulted in the biggest heist in world history except that time in iran when they stole a billion. so dominiitalianporvida i would say albanians arent shit. when talking about organised crime they are an important group.

i have a book here by paul runde or something that says the albanian mafia is one of the most recent and most succesfull to ever reach across the world.
Just off the top of my head I could name 2 heists, oh no, I'm sorry, 3! That top your "biggest heist in world history", without including the Iranians.....

lol?
if you can think of some please tell us. and provide us with a source if you can. if you cant its alright. lol?
I don't feel like looking up sites, you can do that yourself:

Antwerp Diamond Hiest, more than this mysterious Albanian heist you've yet to substantiate, also interestingly, commited by Italians.
Central Bank of Iraq robbery(the Iran you were talking about perhaps?)
RAMSBURY MANOR Robbery- over 100million.
ISABELLA STEWART GARDNER MUSEUM Robbery, worth 300million at the time, nearly 500 million in todays currency, also larger than your heist.
Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam, another 500million dollars worth of art.
a man mugged a courier carrying a briefcase containing 300 bearer bonds worth a total of $435 million, that was in London, also more than your little Albanian heist.

And there are a few others that come quite close to the Albanian heist(source plz?) that I didn't bother searching for.

Nice try though.

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Re:

Unread post by thewestside » June 5th, 2008, 5:45 am

JohnnyRed wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/863620.stm

"Albanian organised crime has become a point of reference for all criminal activity today," he says.

"Everything passes via the Albanians. The road for drugs and arms and people, meaning illegal immigrants destined for Europe, is in Albanian hands."

When the prosecutor leaves his office, three police bodyguards are at his side because of the risk of assassination by Albanian gangsters.


Obviously this is an overstatement. Albanian organized crime is not a point of reference for all criminal activity today. And not all drugs and illegal immigrants move into Europe through the Albanians.
theres one. but lets make this clear, i dont think the albanian mafia is more powerful then the italian in italy. thats impossible 22,500 made men or how ever many they have. globally i dont know who i would rate higher in organised crime between the italians and albanians. sometimes i read things that make me think italians are more powerful and some times i read stuff that makes me think albanians are more powerful. your not gonna find a quote that no albanian group stands a chance again any italian group unless theyre talking about italy.
You don't know who you would rate higher between the Italians and Albanians globally? Come on Johnny, whatever you think about Europe in particular, even you have to admit that the Italians are more powerful globally.
its hard to take you seriously when you talk the way you do but okay. first of all albanians are not scratching off the bottom. every jewellery store heist is blamed on albanians here in new york. jewels are not bottom level. what you and westside dont know about and wont know about are the albanian drug gangs here in new york, philadelphia, chicago and detroit. now if most reports say that the albanian mafia has gained mostly all its reputation to drugs here in america and alex rudaj (a low rent albanian gangster sorry to say) was able to point a gun at the gambino boss take about 7 clubs from 2 italian families or 3 then what are the drug gangs doing? alex rudaj controlled gambling and loan sharking. again he does not mirror albanian organised crime in america except when it came to violence. again ill say my uncles knew the guy (not personally) and they alway said and still say he wasent shit. i believe them because theyre not the type of people who just stay around talking stupidity. and many people will tell you that he wasent anything big for albanians in new york.
As I've said many times, there are Albanian groups in about a dozen U.S. cities. They are involved in a number of criminal activities, many of which I've listed repeatedly. But they are not among the top crime groups in New York or anywhere else in the country. If they were, we would hear more about them. The Rudaj gang temporarilly took control of two clubs on record, although there may have been a few more. Not 7 though.
as for strength i really dont care anymore. i dont know who is more powerful the italians, russians or albanians in new york. and neither do you. and neither does westside but all i can tell you is that albanians belong at the top with russians and italians. its not 1958 where you could clearly see the difference and call the italians top dogs. italians arent really criminals anymore, even the italians in the mafia. they always try to refrain from violence which is leading to them fading away everyday. russians are on rise and so are albanians. one day maybe there will be a clear difference between the three groups and we can say whos the strongest but there isnt in 2008 so stop saying.
The feds know who is the most powerful. And they do not rate the Albanians on the same level they do the Italians and Russians. Or the Chinese for that matter. What do you mean Italians are really criminals anymore? It's true that the LCN is more sophisticated than other groups, and is involved in more sophisticated crimes, as well as labor unions, legitimate businesses, etc. But it also continues to be heavily involved in traditonal street crimes like illegal gambling, loansharking, extortion, drug trafficking, etc.

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Re:

Unread post by thewestside » June 5th, 2008, 5:51 am

JohnnyRed wrote:
As I said before, the FBI estimates that the four major Italian syndicates together have about 3,000 members and affiliates in the U.S. 2,500 for the Sicilian Mafia, 200 for the Camorra, 100-200 for the 'Ndrangheta, and perhaps a few for the Sacra Coron Unita,

are you including associates for 3000? and where is the ndrangheta and camorra located in the US?
Yes, that number includes both members and affiliates (associates) of the Italian syndicates. They are scattered mainly throughout the major cities in the Northeast (the New York-New Jersey-Philadelphia area above all), parts of the Midwest, Florida, and California.

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Re:

Unread post by thewestside » June 5th, 2008, 5:59 am

JohnnyRed wrote:i have a book here by paul runde or something that says the albanian mafia is one of the most recent and most succesfull to ever reach across the world.
Except the Albanian mob doesn't reach across the world. It operates primarily in Europe, with some small groups in the U.S.
TeeKay wrote:Ok where is the albanian mafia located in the US? This dosent include albanian thugs operating out of NY lol.
The FBI has identified Albanian organized crime groups in about a dozen U.S. cities, through I haven't seen a list of them specifically. I would imagine most of them are in the Northeast. They are usually relatively small groups, loosely organized around a few key leaders, and involved mainly in street crimes like illegal gambling, drug trafficking, extortion, robberies, murder, etc.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by Faciulina » June 5th, 2008, 10:20 am

go and check the world muder rate and tell me whose more violent, italians or albanians. dont look at the 2000s for albania because someone keeps #%@&#%@ with it and putting albanians homicide rate at 5 for some reason. the real rate is 83.3 3000 people were shot here last year which gives its a homicide rate of 83.3 which by far exceeds el salvador which is in 2nd place next to albania.
the italians are not nearly as brutal as albanians are organised crime or not
nah.... albania has not 80 murders per 100.000 inhabitants, that's BS, it has maybe 5 murders today, in 1990s it was more violent... at the moment the most violent country in the world is south africa with over 50 murders for 100.000, but most of these murders are because of armed robberies not organized crime... of course italy as a whole is a quiet country, but the south is not especially when there are mafia wars, sicily and calabria had 40 murders for 100.000 in the recent past, today they have less because the mafia wars stopped at the moment... reggio calabria is the most violent city in europe in the latest 5 years with an average of 30 murders for 100.000, followed by naples (16) and moscow (12), in 1980s palermo was the most violent with about 50 murders for 100.000 with peaks of 80-90 in 1981-1982, but they are just statistics anyway and the fact there are more murders it doesn't mean there is a strong organized crime

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by JohnnyRed » June 6th, 2008, 2:56 pm

Faciulina wrote:
go and check the world muder rate and tell me whose more violent, italians or albanians. dont look at the 2000s for albania because someone keeps #%@&#%@ with it and putting albanians homicide rate at 5 for some reason. the real rate is 83.3 3000 people were shot here last year which gives its a homicide rate of 83.3 which by far exceeds el salvador which is in 2nd place next to albania.
the italians are not nearly as brutal as albanians are organised crime or not
nah.... albania has not 80 murders per 100.000 inhabitants, that's BS, it has maybe 5 murders today, in 1990s it was more violent... at the moment the most violent country in the world is south africa with over 50 murders for 100.000, but most of these murders are because of armed robberies not organized crime... of course italy as a whole is a quiet country, but the south is not especially when there are mafia wars, sicily and calabria had 40 murders for 100.000 in the recent past, today they have less because the mafia wars stopped at the moment... reggio calabria is the most violent city in europe in the latest 5 years with an average of 30 murders for 100.000, followed by naples (16) and moscow (12), in 1980s palermo was the most violent with about 50 murders for 100.000 with peaks of 80-90 in 1981-1982, but they are just statistics anyway and the fact there are more murders it doesn't mean there is a strong organized crime


you see you say stupid things like it has maybe 5 murders today, you have to be a total moron to believe albania has a homicide rate of 5 in 2008. i live here for the time being i see whats going on. i live in a small city of 20,000 there was two killings here already i havent even been here for 1 month. lets say there wont be any killings all year (which wont happen, trhere will be at least another 10) thats already a higher murder rate of 5 in this city. in one month.

reggio calabria was never the most violent city in europe. the only time any city in europe could out number a city in albania by murder rate was when we were in communism and even then kosova or the albanian regions in macedonia and malizi probably had higher homicide rates than any city in italy.

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Re: Re:

Unread post by JohnnyRed » June 6th, 2008, 3:04 pm



Obviously this is an overstatement. Albanian organized crime is not a point of reference for all criminal activity today. And not all drugs and illegal immigrants move into Europe through the Albanians.
okay everytime anyone says anything about albanians its an overstatement to you. i dont get it what do you have against albanians? i agree that might have been a little drastic to say that but the albanian dont fall too short under what he said. in europe they are the most powerful criminal organisation.
theres one. but lets make this clear, i dont think the albanian mafia is more powerful then the italian in italy. thats impossible 22,500 made men or how ever many they have. globally i dont know who i would rate higher in organised crime between the italians and albanians. sometimes i read things that make me think italians are more powerful and some times i read stuff that makes me think albanians are more powerful. your not gonna find a quote that no albanian group stands a chance again any italian group unless theyre talking about italy.
You don't know who you would rate higher between the Italians and Albanians globally? Come on Johnny, whatever you think about Europe in particular, even you have to admit that the Italians are more powerful globally.[/quote]

like i said i dont know. the albanians operate everywhere the italians do. the italians are alot more powerful in australia and in south america i would give the italians the upper hand too. but europe i give the albanians and america i dont know. albanians are seriously under rate in america though. there was an arrest which included my friend once and 33 others for drugs and i cant find it anywhere on the net. can you give the site where it says they are identified in a dozen other cities in america.
its hard to take you seriously when you talk the way you do but okay. first of all albanians are not scratching off the bottom. every jewellery store heist is blamed on albanians here in new york. jewels are not bottom level. what you and westside dont know about and wont know about are the albanian drug gangs here in new york, philadelphia, chicago and detroit. now if most reports say that the albanian mafia has gained mostly all its reputation to drugs here in america and alex rudaj (a low rent albanian gangster sorry to say) was able to point a gun at the gambino boss take about 7 clubs from 2 italian families or 3 then what are the drug gangs doing? alex rudaj controlled gambling and loan sharking. again he does not mirror albanian organised crime in america except when it came to violence. again ill say my uncles knew the guy (not personally) and they alway said and still say he wasent shit. i believe them because theyre not the type of people who just stay around talking stupidity. and many people will tell you that he wasent anything big for albanians in new york.
As I've said many times, there are Albanian groups in about a dozen U.S. cities. They are involved in a number of criminal activities, many of which I've listed repeatedly. But they are not among the top crime groups in New York or anywhere else in the country. If they were, we would hear more about them. The Rudaj gang temporarilly took control of two clubs on record, although there may have been a few more. Not 7 though.[/quote]

it was seven go look it up it gives you the names of the clubs. if by a few more you mean five more than yeah.
as for strength i really dont care anymore. i dont know who is more powerful the italians, russians or albanians in new york. and neither do you. and neither does westside but all i can tell you is that albanians belong at the top with russians and italians. its not 1958 where you could clearly see the difference and call the italians top dogs. italians arent really criminals anymore, even the italians in the mafia. they always try to refrain from violence which is leading to them fading away everyday. russians are on rise and so are albanians. one day maybe there will be a clear difference between the three groups and we can say whos the strongest but there isnt in 2008 so stop saying.
The feds know who is the most powerful. And they do not rate the Albanians on the same level they do the Italians and Russians. Or the Chinese for that matter. What do you mean Italians are really criminals anymore? It's true that the LCN is more sophisticated than other groups, and is involved in more sophisticated crimes, as well as labor unions, legitimate businesses, etc. But it also continues to be heavily involved in traditonal street crimes like illegal gambling, loansharking, extortion, drug trafficking, etc.[/quote]

i havent read anything that says the albanians are not on the same leven as the italians or russians in new york.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by TeeKay » June 6th, 2008, 5:39 pm

JohnnyRed wrote:
Faciulina wrote:
go and check the world muder rate and tell me whose more violent, italians or albanians. dont look at the 2000s for albania because someone keeps #%@&#%@ with it and putting albanians homicide rate at 5 for some reason. the real rate is 83.3 3000 people were shot here last year which gives its a homicide rate of 83.3 which by far exceeds el salvador which is in 2nd place next to albania.
the italians are not nearly as brutal as albanians are organised crime or not
nah.... albania has not 80 murders per 100.000 inhabitants, that's BS, it has maybe 5 murders today, in 1990s it was more violent... at the moment the most violent country in the world is south africa with over 50 murders for 100.000, but most of these murders are because of armed robberies not organized crime... of course italy as a whole is a quiet country, but the south is not especially when there are mafia wars, sicily and calabria had 40 murders for 100.000 in the recent past, today they have less because the mafia wars stopped at the moment... reggio calabria is the most violent city in europe in the latest 5 years with an average of 30 murders for 100.000, followed by naples (16) and moscow (12), in 1980s palermo was the most violent with about 50 murders for 100.000 with peaks of 80-90 in 1981-1982, but they are just statistics anyway and the fact there are more murders it doesn't mean there is a strong organized crime


you see you say stupid things like it has maybe 5 murders today, you have to be a total moron to believe albania has a homicide rate of 5 in 2008. i live here for the time being i see whats going on. i live in a small city of 20,000 there was two killings here already i havent even been here for 1 month. lets say there wont be any killings all year (which wont happen, trhere will be at least another 10) thats already a higher murder rate of 5 in this city. in one month.

reggio calabria was never the most violent city in europe. the only time any city in europe could out number a city in albania by murder rate was when we were in communism and even then kosova or the albanian regions in macedonia and malizi probably had higher homicide rates than any city in italy.
Its funny how on wikipedia someone edited the murder rate and put albania as one of the top ones which isnt true at all lol,you've gone and edited it because you desperate to prove albanians are the best crims.
And another thing,now your livin in albania? didnt you say you were a 3rd generation american livin in NY and not to forget...Your only 16years old :lol:

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Re: Re:

Unread post by thewestside » June 6th, 2008, 11:06 pm

JohnnyRed wrote: okay everytime anyone says anything about albanians its an overstatement to you. i dont get it what do you have against albanians? i agree that might have been a little drastic to say that but the albanian dont fall too short under what he said. in europe they are the most powerful criminal organisation.


Not everything, but this particular comment was certainly an overstatement. That should be obvious even to you. And you know I have nothing against Albanians. You're free to believe the Albanians are the most powerful criminal organization in Europe, even though hardly anyone else does.
like i said i dont know. the albanians operate everywhere the italians do. the italians are alot more powerful in australia and in south america i would give the italians the upper hand too. but europe i give the albanians and america i dont know. albanians are seriously under rate in america though. there was an arrest which included my friend once and 33 others for drugs and i cant find it anywhere on the net. can you give the site where it says they are identified in a dozen other cities in america.
The Albanians do not operate everywhere the Italians do. The Italians operate on a global basis - Europe, the Middle East, Africa, Asia, Australia, North America, South America. The Albanians operate in Europe and some select cities in the U.S. How can you say you don't know who is more powerful between the Italians and Albanians in the U.S.? You know very well the Albanians are not on the level of the Italians or a number of other groups in America. There is no evidence that the Albanians are underrated.

"Balkan organized crime is an emerging organized crime problem with transnational ramifications that has been identified and is being addressed in 12 FBI divisions throughout the United States."

- Testimony of Grant D. Ashley, Assistant Director, Criminal Investigative Division, FBI
Before the Subcommittee on European Affairs, Committee on Foreign Relations
United States Senate
October 30, 2003
"Eurasian, Italian, and Balkan Organized Crime"

http://www.fbi.gov/congress/congress03/ashley103003.htm
it was seven go look it up it gives you the names of the clubs. if by a few more you mean five more than yeah.
The indictment against the Rudaj gang said that there were approximately 13 gambling spots in the Bronx, Westchester, and Queens that the gang controlled. But only two were specified as having been connected to the LCN - Soccer Fever and Stamatis - both in Queens. Both clubs were actually operated by Greeks but they paid tribute to the LCN, Soccer Fever to the Gambinos and Stamatis to the Luccheses. If you contend that the Rudaj gang took over seven clubs connected to the LCN, the responsibility is on you to provide proof.
i havent read anything that says the albanians are not on the same leven as the italians or russians in new york.
I've provided the statement by the FBI below to you a number of times. Beyond that, it should be obvious to anyone with even a basic degree of knowledge about organized crime in New York that the Albanians are not on the level of the Italians or Russians. In all reality, I think you know this is true. But you wish it were otherwise because, as it has been from the very beginning, you're whole purpose is to "pump up" Albanian organized crime, thereby getting some sort of personal satisfaction out of it because you are Albanian. This is why you have very little credibility with anyone here.

"Balkan organized crime is an emerging threat in the U.S. While several groups are active in various cities across the country, they do not yet demonstrate the established criminal sophistication of traditional Eurasian or La Cosa Nostra (LCN) organizations."

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/orgcrime/balkan.htm

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by JohnnyRed » June 7th, 2008, 4:27 pm

Its funny how on wikipedia someone edited the murder rate and put albania as one of the top ones which isnt true at all lol,you've gone and edited it because you desperate to prove albanians are the best crims.
And another thing,now your livin in albania? didnt you say you were a 3rd generation american livin in NY and not to forget...Your only 16years old :lol:


one, i never said i was a third generation albanian american you fuckin' moron. when the fuck did i say that honestly you have to be totally fuckin brain dead to say what you just said. i came here in 1994 and got my ass deported just now.

second, i did not edit the wikipedia murder rate not once. i could care less. on the news here, they said 3000 people were shot dead this year with about another 6500 shot. so if you do the math 3000 in a country of 3.6 million. thats ends up as 83.3 homicides per 100,000. wikipedia and faciliunca are both wrong.

third whats my age got to do with it? honestly, if anyone on here is over 17 years old i really feel bad for you. i only reason i post is because im stupid enough to care when nobodies come online dissing albanians. and i really have to be stupid to care what you 'nothings' rate albanian organised crime.

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Re: Re:

Unread post by JohnnyRed » June 7th, 2008, 4:45 pm

Not everything, but this particular comment was certainly an overstatement. That should be obvious even to you. And you know I have nothing against Albanians. You're free to believe the Albanians are the most powerful criminal organization in Europe, even though hardly anyone else does.
Actually there were several people who agreed with me and privded numerous sources. your stuck on italians being the most powerful. you have never given a source that says plainly out loud the italians are the most powerful criminals in europe. i have given you over 20 articles saying the albanians dominate european crime.

The Albanians do not operate everywhere the Italians do. The Italians operate on a global basis - Europe, the Middle East, Africa, Asia, Australia, North America, South America. The Albanians operate in Europe and some select cities in the U.S. How can you say you don't know who is more powerful between the Italians and Albanians in the U.S.? You know very well the Albanians are not on the level of the Italians or a number of other groups in America. There is no evidence that the Albanians are underrated.
eassssssssssy there italian groupie. grip on italian nuts a little harder why dont you. the italians dont operate in asia, africa or the middle east. maybe a tiny bit and i mean a tinyyyyyyyyyyy bit in the middle east but thats about it. you have yet to provide sources of them operating in asia and africa. i can say albanians operate in asia too and the middle east since thats where their heroin comes from, the albanians are known to be connected to middle eastern terrorist organisations so bvetween the italians and albanians, the albanians would be opertaing in the middle east alot more heavily then the wops.
"Balkan organized crime is an emerging organized crime problem with transnational ramifications that has been identified and is being addressed in 12 FBI divisions throughout the United States."

- Testimony of Grant D. Ashley, Assistant Director, Criminal Investigative Division, FBI
Before the Subcommittee on European Affairs, Committee on Foreign Relations
United States Senate
October 30, 2003
"Eurasian, Italian, and Balkan Organized Crime"

http://www.fbi.gov/congress/congress03/ashley103003.htm
it was seven go look it up it gives you the names of the clubs. if by a few more you mean five more than yeah.
The indictment against the Rudaj gang said that there were approximately 13 gambling spots in the Bronx, Westchester, and Queens that the gang controlled. But only two were specified as having been connected to the LCN - Soccer Fever and Stamatis - both in Queens. Both clubs were actually operated by Greeks but they paid tribute to the LCN, Soccer Fever to the Gambinos and Stamatis to the Luccheses. If you contend that the Rudaj gang took over seven clubs connected to the LCN, the responsibility is on you to provide proof.
i havent read anything that says the albanians are not on the same leven as the italians or russians in new york.
I've provided the statement by the FBI below to you a number of times. Beyond that, it should be obvious to anyone with even a basic degree of knowledge about organized crime in New York that the Albanians are not on the level of the Italians or Russians. In all reality, I think you know this is true. But you wish it were otherwise because, as it has been from the very beginning, you're whole purpose is to "pump up" Albanian organized crime, thereby getting some sort of personal satisfaction out of it because you are Albanian. This is why you have very little credibility with anyone here.

"Balkan organized crime is an emerging threat in the U.S. While several groups are active in various cities across the country, they do not yet demonstrate the established criminal sophistication of traditional Eurasian or La Cosa Nostra (LCN) organizations."

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/orgcrime/balkan.htm

all you keep repeating is that the FBI says they dont demonstrate the sophistication of traditional eurasian or LCN organisations. like whats wrong with you? even i told you that. the albanians are no where near as sophisticated as italianas or even russians. that doesnt mean they arent as powerful. i have quotes numerous times over and over and over again saying albanians are replacing woppers as leaders or organised crime in the US.

you never understand what you read, i say there is 500,000 albanians in the US you go and read a report that says 113,000 albanians claimed albanian ancestery in the US. if you knew anything about albanians the majority of them are without papers they cant claim shit. only albanian american citizens can claim albanian ancestery, the refugees no one asks because technically they're not supposed to be in the country. but you dont understand what you read. your like a book. you repeat the same shit over and over and over again. the italians are the most traditional criminals. your a traditional person. with a traditional mind. you claim you know everything about organised crime but you graduated with a minor in it. i have thousands of sources and its even on a fuckin book by an established organised crime author who probably graduated with a major in organised crime who says and i'll repeat again "the albanian mafia, one of the most recent and most effective to ever reach across the world"

and before the book gets to the chapters on certain groups it talks about organised crime in total and the albanians are mentioned more than any other group. they are mentioned as the main characters in the sex trade chapter. heroin sections. car thefts. european organised crime. they are mentioned more than any other crime group before the ethnic group chapters.

so dont tell me deep down i really know the true because the truth is the albanian mafia is more powerful than they're once mentors the italian mafia in europe. soon to be in america. and more powerful in the middle east.

and one more thing. i dont think the albanian mafia is stronger than the italian mafia in europe i think they're ALOT stronger than them. the intensity of the albanian mafia in europe puts them as one of the top mafias in the world. europe is the strong base of the albanian mafia. no one can compete with them there. when talking about other parts of the world, it varies for which group is the strongest but europe without a doubt is in the hands of the albanian mafia.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by JohnnyRed » June 7th, 2008, 4:49 pm

its kind of funny when you say albanians arent even in the top 3 in new york but the gambinos main assassins are albanians and peter gotti or john gotti jr.'s bodyguard was albanian. this is why the italians in my mind are not criminals anymore they pay real criminals to protect them. unfortunantly they couldnt pay any of there albanian hitmen and bodyguards to protect them against the rudaj organistion which looked like a guerrilla army compared to LCN families looool i mean come on 3 albanians against 30 italians at a gas station with the element of surprise being on the italian side and the albanians out smarted them loooooool stupid wops. like the article said this incident was a sign to many that the LCN is just washed up and has no more real power over NYC or any part of america for that matter.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by TeeKay » June 7th, 2008, 6:28 pm

JohnnyRed wrote:
Its funny how on wikipedia someone edited the murder rate and put albania as one of the top ones which isnt true at all lol,you've gone and edited it because you desperate to prove albanians are the best crims.
And another thing,now your livin in albania? didnt you say you were a 3rd generation american livin in NY and not to forget...Your only 16years old :lol:


one, i never said i was a third generation albanian american you fuckin' moron. when the fu-- did i say that honestly you have to be totally fuckin brain dead to say what you just said. i came here in 1994 and got my ass deported just now.

second, i did not edit the wikipedia murder rate not once. i could care less. on the news here, they said 3000 people were shot dead this year with about another 6500 shot. so if you do the math 3000 in a country of 3.6 million. thats ends up as 83.3 homicides per 100,000. wikipedia and faciliunca are both wrong.

third whats my age got to do with it? honestly, if anyone on here is over 17 years old i really feel bad for you. i only reason i post is because im stupid enough to care when nobodies come online dissing albanians. and i really have to be stupid to care what you 'nothings' rate albanian organised crime.
lol if anyone over 17 shouldnt be on here? more like the other way around so we dont have shitty faced teenage groupies like this one here postin his own info on here to pump albanians up in the world.
The board is supposed to be for good folks who can trade information and chop it up from time to time,not youngins like you who come on here for a pissing contest and cant wait to suck the next big albanian criminal's dick lol.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by Faciulina » June 8th, 2008, 10:54 am

i dont think the albanian mafia is stronger than the italian mafia in europe i think they're ALOT stronger than them. the intensity of the albanian mafia in europe puts them as one of the top mafias in the world. europe is the strong base of the albanian mafia. no one can compete with them there. when talking about other parts of the world, it varies for which group is the strongest but europe without a doubt is in the hands of the albanian mafia.
please be serious now johnyred you live in usa and you can't know the actual european situation we are in 2008 not 1994 albanians and russians aren't anymore what they used to be in middle 1990s times change fastly in this world,the italian mafia is by far the strongest organized crime group in europe today like it was in the past the ndrangheta is the number 1 and i am sure you know it although you claim albanians are the strongest, if you speak to albanian people in europe they all say the italian mafia is the strongest... takes the fact please they control the whole cocaine and a consistent part of heroin and cannabis, they have political connections in almost all european countries, even in montenegro that is run by the camorra, albanians are the second strongest group in europe but they are a little thing compared to south italians
second, i did not edit the wikipedia murder rate not once. i could care less. on the news here, they said 3000 people were shot dead this year with about another 6500 shot. so if you do the math 3000 in a country of 3.6 million. thats ends up as 83.3 homicides per 100,000. wikipedia and faciliunca are both wrong
you are totally wrong, albania has an homicide rate of 5 murders for 100.000 inhabitants you believe it or not, you have not any source to proof the contrary
the italians dont operate in asia, africa or the middle east.
i don't know in asia but in africa italian mafia is strong, you can easily find several articles about it, albanians are present only in europe, they are nothing in africa, usa, canada, australia and south america

in usa the italian mafia is by far still number 1, albanians in new york are just associates with the mafia they control nothing, when rudaj protested the gambino's killed an albanian in queens to punish him, look at this article, the italian mafia has tons of manpower, it doesn't need albanian shooters, they are connected with sicilians and calabrians who are by far more violent and expert than albanians when it comes to wars, the kosovars of kla are expert in other kind of wars not mafia wars, that's a different thing

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Re: Re:

Unread post by thewestside » June 9th, 2008, 6:29 pm

JohnnyRed wrote:Actually there were several people who agreed with me and privded numerous sources. your stuck on italians being the most powerful. you have never given a source that says plainly out loud the italians are the most powerful criminals in europe. i have given you over 20 articles saying the albanians dominate european crime.
Who has agreed with you? Name one person. Even Ronnie eventually determined you are full of shit. And so are most of your dubious "sources."
eassssssssssy there italian groupie. grip on italian nuts a little harder why dont you. the italians dont operate in asia, africa or the middle east. maybe a tiny bit and i mean a tinyyyyyyyyyyy bit in the middle east but thats about it. you have yet to provide sources of them operating in asia and africa. i can say albanians operate in asia too and the middle east since thats where their heroin comes from, the albanians are known to be connected to middle eastern terrorist organisations so bvetween the italians and albanians, the albanians would be opertaing in the middle east alot more heavily then the wops.
I'm an Italian nuthugger simply because I state the facts? Sorry pal, the only nuthugger is you and everyone knows it. I have already provided articles and reports that state the Italians operate globally, including in Asia, Africa, and the Middle East.
all you keep repeating is that the FBI says they dont demonstrate the sophistication of traditional eurasian or LCN organisations. like whats wrong with you? even i told you that. the albanians are no where near as sophisticated as italianas or even russians. that doesnt mean they arent as powerful. i have quotes numerous times over and over and over again saying albanians are replacing woppers as leaders or organised crime in the US.
Sophistication equals power. And why do we keep going over the same crap over and over again? All you have is one statement by an unidentified FBI source that said the Albanians were replacing the Italian families. And, as I've said repeatedly, this was obviously in reference to the Rudaj gang alone before they got taken down. The Albanians are not as powerful as the Italians, Russians, or a number of other groups in New York and are nowhere close to becoming the leaders of organized crime in the U.S.

And where are the names of the five other LCN gambling clubs you said the Rudaj gang took over Johnny? Dollars to donuts you won't be able to provide them because they don't exist. Just another example of you spouting nonsense in order to pump up the Albanians.
you never understand what you read, i say there is 500,000 albanians in the US you go and read a report that says 113,000 albanians claimed albanian ancestery in the US. if you knew anything about albanians the majority of them are without papers they cant claim shit. only albanian american citizens can claim albanian ancestery, the refugees no one asks because technically they're not supposed to be in the country. but you dont understand what you read. your like a book. you repeat the same shit over and over and over again. the italians are the most traditional criminals. your a traditional person. with a traditional mind. you claim you know everything about organised crime but you graduated with a minor in it. i have thousands of sources and its even on a fuckin book by an established organised crime author who probably graduated with a major in organised crime who says and i'll repeat again "the albanian mafia, one of the most recent and most effective to ever reach across the world"
This is the difference between you and I. I post facts that can be demonstrated, i.e. there being 113,000 Albanians listed in the last U.S. census (2000). You simply go by your own assumptions, i.e. claiming there are 500,000 Albanians in the U.S. without any proof. Quit saying you have "thousands" of sources because you don't. You have a few dozen or so and most of them are dubious at best.
and before the book gets to the chapters on certain groups it talks about organised crime in total and the albanians are mentioned more than any other group. they are mentioned as the main characters in the sex trade chapter. heroin sections. car thefts. european organised crime. they are mentioned more than any other crime group before the ethnic group chapters.
So what? Wow, Johnny has a book everyone. Another case of you going out of your way to find scraps of information here and there that seem to allude to the Albanian's superiority, at least in your mind, while ignoring all of the other available evidence around you. You truly do have blinders on. Complete tunnel vision.
so dont tell me deep down i really know the true because the truth is the albanian mafia is more powerful than they're once mentors the italian mafia in europe. soon to be in america. and more powerful in the middle east.
LOL! Yawn. You do realize nobody takes you seriously, right?
and one more thing. i dont think the albanian mafia is stronger than the italian mafia in europe i think they're ALOT stronger than them. the intensity of the albanian mafia in europe puts them as one of the top mafias in the world. europe is the strong base of the albanian mafia. no one can compete with them there. when talking about other parts of the world, it varies for which group is the strongest but europe without a doubt is in the hands of the albanian mafia.
The "intensity" of the Albanian Mafia? What does that even mean? Give it up Johnny, you're a fraud.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by TeeKay » June 9th, 2008, 10:30 pm

Im sure everyone here wouldn't agree with you even if you kept trying Johnny,actually im willing to see anyone here who would put their money on the albanians becoming the dominant ones in the US or europe for that matter,the US especially considering albanians arent even entrenched to do a take over.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by thewestside » June 9th, 2008, 11:52 pm

TeeKay wrote:Im sure everyone here wouldn't agree with you even if you kept trying Johnny,actually im willing to see anyone here who would put their money on the albanians becoming the dominant ones in the US or europe for that matter,the US especially considering albanians arent even entrenched to do a take over.
There isn't anybody. Johnny is a lone voice in the wilderness, screaming "Albanians are the most powerful!" at the top of his lungs although nobody is listening. The Albanians are #1 in Johnny's head, and Johnny's head only. And the reason is because he wants them to be #1. Not because they actually are or because there is sufficient evidence to think as much, but because he gets some sort of sick ethnic pride out of it simply because he is Albanian. He can keep waving his tired articles around until doomsday, but they will continue to fail to prove his point because 90% of them are from crap sources. The other 10% are are snippets from officials that have proven to be overstatements, incorrect, or outdated.

Are the Albanians one of the most powerful groups in Europe? Yes. Are they more powerful than the Italians or Russians there? No. Are the Albanians as powerful as the Italians or Russians in New York? No. Are the Albanians on the verge of replacing the Italians and becoming the leaders of organized crime in the U.S.? No.

The fact that Johnny really believes the last sentence alone shows just how out of touch he is with reality. It's pointless to debate him anymore. He is a one note wonder. All he has to offer is ultra-hyped BS on the Albanian mob and nothing else. It's the same recycled nonsense over and over again that has kept a few threads going on and on. Time to hang it up Johnny. You gave it your best but nobody is buying what you're selling.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by JohnnyRed » June 13th, 2008, 8:27 am

thewestside wrote:
TeeKay wrote:Im sure everyone here wouldn't agree with you even if you kept trying Johnny,actually im willing to see anyone here who would put their money on the albanians becoming the dominant ones in the US or europe for that matter,the US especially considering albanians arent even entrenched to do a take over.
There isn't anybody. Johnny is a lone voice in the wilderness, screaming "Albanians are the most powerful!" at the top of his lungs although nobody is listening. The Albanians are #1 in Johnny's head, and Johnny's head only. And the reason is because he wants them to be #1. Not because they actually are or because there is sufficient evidence to think as much, but because he gets some sort of sick ethnic pride out of it simply because he is Albanian. He can keep waving his tired articles around until doomsday, but they will continue to fail to prove his point because 90% of them are from crap sources. The other 10% are are snippets from officials that have proven to be overstatements, incorrect, or outdated.

Are the Albanians one of the most powerful groups in Europe? Yes. Are they more powerful than the Italians or Russians there? No. Are the Albanians as powerful as the Italians or Russians in New York? No. Are the Albanians on the verge of replacing the Italians and becoming the leaders of organized crime in the U.S.? No.

The fact that Johnny really believes the last sentence alone shows just how out of touch he is with reality. It's pointless to debate him anymore. He is a one note wonder. All he has to offer is ultra-hyped BS on the Albanian mob and nothing else. It's the same recycled nonsense over and over again that has kept a few threads going on and on. Time to hang it up Johnny. You gave it your best but nobody is buying what you're selling.



looool your really a moron you know that. first of all let me explain to you what your problem is.

for example the 113,000 albanians in the US thing. the report said that 113,000 albanians claimed albanian ancestery in the US as of 2000. now if you had half a brain and if you didnt have a minor in college you would know that the only albanians who can CLAIM ALBANIAN ANCESTERY in the US are the ones who have there papers in order. not the refugees who technically are 'illegal' in america.

this is just an example of how you dont understand what you read or anything. unlike you I HAVE given you article after article after article after article after article after artcle X 1000 that proves everything i have said. you havent given me anything. except one article that says albanians arent as sophisticated as italians. which i told you from the beginning they're not. and now you claim sophistication is power looooool. TUNNEL VISION? ME? coming from the man who said italian organised crime in more powerful than russian organised crime globally?? loooool.

again please give me a source that says plainly outloud the italians are more powerful than the albanians in europe. only one.i think its only fair since i gave you about 1000. and everyone here knows i have. but for some reason EVERY SINGLE ENTIRE ARTICLE is false because it says the albanians are more powerful.

no offense but is italians are having a hard time with albanians in the US when albanians are 500,000 and italians are 17,000,000 than how do you expect the italians to do in a continent of 50,000,000 italians or so and over 10,000,000 albanians?


again PLEASSSSSSSSSSSE provide a source im tired of hearing im stuck in my own world and i get sick ethnic pride and all that BS. please provide a source if you cant its alright you tired your best.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by thewestside » June 13th, 2008, 6:51 pm

JohnnyRed wrote:looool your really a moron you know that. first of all let me explain to you what your problem is.

for example the 113,000 albanians in the US thing. the report said that 113,000 albanians claimed albanian ancestery in the US as of 2000. now if you had half a brain and if you didnt have a minor in college you would know that the only albanians who can CLAIM ALBANIAN ANCESTERY in the US are the ones who have there papers in order. not the refugees who technically are 'illegal' in america.
I'm aware that there are Albanians here in the U.S. who are undocumented. But because of that very fact, we can't comment on how many there are. That's why to pull a number out of your ass - like you did with 500,000 - is pointless. The best you can do is go with the official count in the U.S. census done every ten years.
this is just an example of how you dont understand what you read or anything. unlike you I HAVE given you article after article after article after article after article after artcle X 1000 that proves everything i have said. you havent given me anything. except one article that says albanians arent as sophisticated as italians. which i told you from the beginning they're not. and now you claim sophistication is power looooool. TUNNEL VISION? ME?
Everybody knows the Albanians are not as powerful as either the Italians or Russians in New York. This is common knowledge. The only person who thinks otherwise is you. If anything, the burden of proof falls on you to show how the Albanians match the Italians or Russians there. You have never been able to demonstrate how they do. You've tried to rehash the Rudaj gang over and over again, switching back and forth from them being so powerful as to take on the Italian mob to them being nothing in Albanian organized crime. You have repeatedly made claims about the Albanian mob in the U.S. that are false and that you cannot prove. It is YOU who hasn't given anything.
coming from the man who said italian organised crime in more powerful than russian organised crime globally?? loooool.
Please show me where I said that. If anything, I have repeatedly said that the Russians are the only group that can match the Italians in the scope of their global operations.
again please give me a source that says plainly outloud the italians are more powerful than the albanians in europe. only one.i think its only fair since i gave you about 1000. and everyone here knows i have. but for some reason EVERY SINGLE ENTIRE ARTICLE is false because it says the albanians are more powerful.
You have the memory of a mosquito. You challenged me long ago to provide you with "just one" article that said the Italians were the most powerful group in Europe, and I did. Of course, as I knew you would, you immediately dismissed it. Here it is again -

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... gang'.html

I discount the majority of your articles because they are from dubious sources (i.e. blogs, etc.) or they have proven to be untrue or overstated with time. It's the very same reason why Ronnie discounted them. And, as I've said over and over again, you can't let your judgement fall on one article or even a number of articles. You have to take all of the available information on each crime group to make an accurate comparison. You haven't done that because it is obvious that at least 90% of what you read about is Albanian organized crime only. That's why 90% of your posts are about Albanian organized crime only. That's what I mean by tunnel vision.
no offense but is italians are having a hard time with albanians in the US when albanians are 500,000 and italians are 17,000,000 than how do you expect the italians to do in a continent of 50,000,000 italians or so and over 10,000,000 albanians?
Please explain how and where the Italians are having a "hard time" with Albanians in the U.S. Are you once again rehashing the Rudaj gang, which temporarilly took over two clubs run by Greeks, before they were taken down in a federal indictment? Is that what you mean by giving the Italians a "hard time?" Or are you referring to something else Johnny? And oh yeah, where are the names of the five other clubs the Rudaj gang took over? You still haven't provided those.
again PLEASSSSSSSSSSSE provide a source im tired of hearing im stuck in my own world and i get sick ethnic pride and all that BS. please provide a source if you cant its alright you tired your best.
I did up above. But I know you'll dismiss it because it isn't what you want to hear.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by Faciulina » June 14th, 2008, 9:47 am

ahahah johny red thinks we are in 1997 when albanians started running some shit like heroin and prostitution and some people said they were a huge threat... we are in 2008 now and the only serious shit threat is the 'ndrangheta like all the european reports said... the ndrangheta alone is by far stronger than all the albanian and kosovar clans, imagine all the four italian main groups together, even the romanians are going to replace albanian in prostitution rings in some european places, how can they overtake italians if romanians are overtaking them?
again johny red, you can't compare all the italians with the albanians, at least you can southern italians with albanians so in europe the number of southern italians and albanians is the same but the impact of southern in organized crime is by far higher and in usa less than half italians come from south the other comes from north and center italy that has not any organized crime group and it had never in the past, in new york over 80% of italians come from south italy

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by RONNIE » June 15th, 2008, 9:46 pm

lol @ Johnny editing Wikipedia murder rates
He tried to make us think that Albania is more violent than South Africa or Colombia but see the latest UN report

Balkans are the safest place in Europe LOL

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCr ... SL29856018

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by Dudeman277 » July 3rd, 2008, 4:28 pm

Jesus christ, ladies. Get bigger tampons. Why do you need in depth coverage, proof, back up, and twenty bitch slaps before you get the fucking point? The Albanian mafia isn't shit compared to La Cosa Nostra. Get over it, JohnnyRed, and please, go suck a cock.

Thewestside's gargantuan logic will utterly demolish any hard-gay argument you scrotum lipped cunts might have the god awful travesty of beating out onto half a keyboard with those dick-cheese sausages you call fingers. If you can cease sucking the shit off your circle-jerk strap-on penises for half a second, maybe you should tear that hard, moldy semen off your eyelids and read what he has to say. Jesus, he already showed you exactly why the Italian Mafia isn’t half bad, quarter bad, or even one eighth as bad as your mom is at giving me head.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by razbojnik » July 4th, 2008, 9:45 am

Holy crap after all of those lame insults he threw at me and other members of the forum, Westside especially, I am the one who got banned because I starting writing on topic and off topic eventually, see I erased a whole damn book I just wrote to avoid this but what the hell... Continue you two...

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by Vincetheprince » July 18th, 2008, 6:58 pm

thewestside can you show me proof of the italian mafia havng anything to do with the middle east?

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by thewestside » July 18th, 2008, 10:38 pm

Vincetheprince wrote:thewestside can you show me proof of the italian mafia havng anything to do with the middle east?
Where do you think the Italian Mafia's main source of heroin has come from for the last 75+ years?

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Re:

Unread post by Carmelo_Sicily » July 19th, 2008, 6:49 am

I gotta disagree. Albanians are far more brutal than italians even the italians in europe. they're more brutal than the russians how can you even compare them to the italians when it comes to violence?

How about you read the book "Gomorrah" written by Roberto Saviano. The man has clearly listed statistics of all the killings involving the Cosa Nostra, N'Drangheta, Camorra, Albanians, Russians etc. The Camorra had the highest amount of murders...and you're going to sit there and try and say the Albanians are ruthless?

For the record, two countries in Africa off the top of my head that the Italians operate in are Tunisia and South Africa. There's been a huge mafia presence in Tunisia for years, with a number of colonies setup in the past and many mafiosi fled there to go ont he lamb.

Westside, maybe we should post the maps of Milan to show the size of the territory the Albanians have in a northern Italian city. The Cursoti Clan has more territory than the Albanians there, and they're just an off shoot of the Catania Mafia, not even an official group.

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Re:

Unread post by Carmelo_Sicily » July 19th, 2008, 6:49 am

I gotta disagree. Albanians are far more brutal than italians even the italians in europe. they're more brutal than the russians how can you even compare them to the italians when it comes to violence?

How about you read the book "Gomorrah" written by Roberto Saviano. The man has clearly listed statistics of all the killings involving the Cosa Nostra, N'Drangheta, Camorra, Albanians, Russians etc. The Camorra had the highest amount of murders...and you're going to sit there and try and say the Albanians are ruthless?

For the record, two countries in Africa off the top of my head that the Italians operate in are Tunisia and South Africa. There's been a huge mafia presence in Tunisia for years, with a number of colonies setup in the past and many mafiosi fled there to go ont he lamb.

Westside, maybe we should post the maps of Milan to show the size of the territory the Albanians have in a northern Italian city. The Cursoti Clan has more territory than the Albanians there, and they're just an off shoot of the Catania Mafia, not even an official group.

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razbojnik
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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by razbojnik » July 19th, 2008, 9:37 am

This means Macedonians are more brutal than Russians and Italians since we fucked up the Albanians in 2001. ;)

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by thewestside » July 19th, 2008, 2:54 pm

All organized crime groups are capable of brutality. Some use violence more freely than others but that doesn't necessarily make them more brutal.

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Re: Strongest Criminal Organisation in Europe.

Unread post by razbojnik » July 19th, 2008, 5:31 pm

thewestside wrote:All organized crime groups are capable of brutality. Some use violence more freely than others but that doesn't necessarily make them more brutal.
I agree with you on that comment, both in the sense you just said and when it comes to youth in America/Canada, usually from some other country and into the hip hop subculture..

IF YOU OFFEND AND GET INTO FIGHTS WITH PEOPLE FOR NO REASON IT DOESNT MAKE YOU TOUGHER IT JUST INCREASES THE RISK OF OFFENDING OR HITTING THE WRONG PERSON AND GETTING YOU AND YOUR WHOLE FAMILY KILLED...

God damn it what's wrong with the kids in North America???????????

Also, Westside, could you give me a list of organized crime activties from most profitable to least profitable, aka how much one activty makes per year...

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