John Gotti's Last Prison Photograph

American organized crime groups included traditional groups such as La Cosa Nostra & the Italian Mafia to modern groups such as Black Mafia Family. Discuss the most organized criminal groups in the United States including gangs in Canada.
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AnthonyJ33
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John Gotti's Last Prison Photograph

Unread post by AnthonyJ33 » April 28th, 2008, 2:04 pm

I wrote an article about the last known photo of John Gotti that was recently released. I can't believe how much the guy changed during his incarceration. The effects of cancer and prison definitely had a ravaging effect on him.

I know the guy was a murderer and a thief, but for a proud gangster like Gotti, ending his life in the condition that he ended it in had to be a huge blow to his massive ego!

http://hubpages.com/hub/John-Gottis-Las ... Dapper-Don

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Unread post by thewestside » April 30th, 2008, 11:16 pm

Gotti had the option of being moved to another prison with better conditions even before he became sick. But to do so, he would have had to officially step down as boss of the Gambinos.

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Unread post by AnthonyJ33 » May 1st, 2008, 9:00 am

thewestside wrote:Gotti had the option of being moved to another prison with better conditions even before he became sick. But to do so, he would have had to officially step down as boss of the Gambinos.
Yeah, Gotti was too proud to make any concessions to law enforcement or to the government. But damn, what a crappy existence it must have been to be confined to the "E" block of Marion for all those years. If I'm cooped up in the house for a few hours out of the day I get restless. But to be couped up inside of a cell the size of a small bathroom for 22+ hours per day for years has to be torture!

I'd go insane and stir crazy!

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Unread post by Joe Batters » May 9th, 2008, 8:43 pm

AnthonyJ33 wrote:
thewestside wrote:Gotti had the option of being moved to another prison with better conditions even before he became sick. But to do so, he would have had to officially step down as boss of the Gambinos.
Yeah, Gotti was too proud to make any concessions to law enforcement or to the government. But damn, what a crappy existence it must have been to be confined to the "E" block of Marion for all those years. If I'm cooped up in the house for a few hours out of the day I get restless. But to be couped up inside of a cell the size of a small bathroom for 22+ hours per day for years has to be torture!

I'd go insane and stir crazy!


His jaw is pretty swollen. I believe that's where the majority of his problems were. I remember reading that his cancer maybe have been due to improperly maintained dental implants.

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Unread post by TeeKay » May 10th, 2008, 6:16 pm

thewestside wrote:Gotti had the option of being moved to another prison with better conditions even before he became sick. But to do so, he would have had to officially step down as boss of the Gambinos.
What like turn informant?

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Unread post by thewestside » May 10th, 2008, 8:21 pm

TeeKay wrote:
thewestside wrote:Gotti had the option of being moved to another prison with better conditions even before he became sick. But to do so, he would have had to officially step down as boss of the Gambinos.
What like turn informant?
No, simply relinquish his position in the Gambino family, similar to what Scarfo did when he stepped down as boss of Philadelphia.

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Unread post by 3 to 5 Is Life » May 20th, 2008, 11:21 pm

i hearz ya. that gotti wuz the man no dout. i prya to goti ever day. he my her o.

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Unread post by AnthonyJ33 » May 21st, 2008, 2:16 pm

3 to 5 Is Life wrote:i hearz ya. that gotti wuz the man no dout. i prya to goti ever day. he my her o.

I think the word "hero" might be a bit of a stretch for a guy like Gotti, but he was definitely a lot of things to a lot of people. To the government and law enforcement he was a stone-cold killer responsible for the deaths of scores of individuals. To his family and friends he was a great guy, a loving and devoted father and husband, and a protector of his community.

I find the guy fascinating. I'm not condoning his lifestyle or his deeds, but there's something fascinating about a guy who was born dirt poor with seemingly very few options in life who achieved a perverse type of American Dream as the head of one of the largest crime families in the United States.

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Unread post by Mr.Bungle » May 25th, 2008, 12:00 am

AnthonyJ33 wrote:
3 to 5 Is Life wrote:i hearz ya. that gotti wuz the man no dout. i prya to goti ever day. he my her o.

I think the word "hero" might be a bit of a stretch for a guy like Gotti, but he was definitely a lot of things to a lot of people. To the government and law enforcement he was a stone-cold killer responsible for the deaths of scores of individuals. To his family and friends he was a great guy, a loving and devoted father and husband, and a protector of his community.

I find the guy fascinating. I'm not condoning his lifestyle or his deeds, but there's something fascinating about a guy who was born dirt poor with seemingly very few options in life who achieved a perverse type of American Dream as the head of one of the largest crime families in the United States.
Gotti was an arrogant, self-absorbed,wannabe celebrity,but he was also the most stand up gangster there was. He talked the talk, but unlike most he walked the walk. Standup till the end. RESPECT!

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Unread post by AnthonyJ33 » May 25th, 2008, 3:27 pm

Mr.Bungle wrote:
AnthonyJ33 wrote:
3 to 5 Is Life wrote:i hearz ya. that gotti wuz the man no dout. i prya to goti ever day. he my her o.

I think the word "hero" might be a bit of a stretch for a guy like Gotti, but he was definitely a lot of things to a lot of people. To the government and law enforcement he was a stone-cold killer responsible for the deaths of scores of individuals. To his family and friends he was a great guy, a loving and devoted father and husband, and a protector of his community.

I find the guy fascinating. I'm not condoning his lifestyle or his deeds, but there's something fascinating about a guy who was born dirt poor with seemingly very few options in life who achieved a perverse type of American Dream as the head of one of the largest crime families in the United States.
Gotti was an arrogant, self-absorbed,wannabe celebrity,but he was also the most stand up gangster there was. He talked the talk, but unlike most he walked the walk. Standup till the end. RESPECT!
I gotta agree with you there. Gotti did take his punishment like a man. There was no dealing or turning against his cohorts in exchange for any type of leniency. So, apparently, Gotti ascribed to the code of "omerta"! Unlike Sammy!

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Unread post by thewestside » May 25th, 2008, 3:54 pm

Keep in mind that the government would have likely never offered Gotti a deal anyway. They already had his underboss, who knew just as much (if not more) about the inner workings of the Gambino family. After beating three cases and rubbing their noses in it for years, the feds wanted Gotti in one place - prison.

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Unread post by Mr.Bungle » May 25th, 2008, 9:20 pm

Still, I'm sure Gotti could've gotten a nicer setup in a different prison if he ratted.

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Unread post by AnthonyJ33 » May 28th, 2008, 8:25 am

thewestside wrote:Keep in mind that the government would have likely never offered Gotti a deal anyway. They already had his underboss, who knew just as much (if not more) about the inner workings of the Gambino family. After beating three cases and rubbing their noses in it for years, the feds wanted Gotti in one place - prison.
I can't believe the deal that Sammy Gravano received from the government. Gravano gets a slap on the wrist for an admitted role in at least 19 murders; Gotti, on the other hand, was overhead talking about his role in about 3 murders, and he gets the life in prison without parole. Just because Gotti had the title of "boss," didn't mean that he was any more dangerous than Gravano. The government had an airtight case against Gotti; they didn't need the testimony of Gravano to put him away. Both Gotti and Gravano should have been locked away together back in 1992.

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Unread post by known-felon » May 28th, 2008, 3:33 pm

Sammy did what Sammy always did....He looked after number one.

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Unread post by Azure9920 » May 28th, 2008, 3:49 pm

known-felon wrote:Sammy did what Sammy always did....He looked after number one.
I guess you missed the decades he spent as Gotti's bitch?

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Unread post by thewestside » May 29th, 2008, 3:26 am

AnthonyJ33 wrote:I can't believe the deal that Sammy Gravano received from the government. Gravano gets a slap on the wrist for an admitted role in at least 19 murders; Gotti, on the other hand, was overhead talking about his role in about 3 murders, and he gets the life in prison without parole. Just because Gotti had the title of "boss," didn't mean that he was any more dangerous than Gravano. The government had an airtight case against Gotti; they didn't need the testimony of Gravano to put him away. Both Gotti and Gravano should have been locked away together back in 1992.
The government certainly made a "deal with the devil" when they allowed Gravano to turn on Gotti. Many people have a problem with allowing one mafioso to get off in order to convict another mafioso. But the reality is, that is what it takes to defeat the mob. Divide and conquer. Yes, Gravano was guilty of murder or of ordering murders himself, but many of them were at the behest of Gotti. And let's face it, Gotti sealed his own fate by how he operated as a boss. His flashy, in your face style pissed off the feds, who had been having their noses rubbed in it for years by Gotti who beat them in three seperate trials. In the end, the ultimate desire of the government is to destroy the mob as an organization. What happens to one mobster or another means only so much as long as the organization itself is weakened. And that's what happened with Gravano's defection. Not only were they able to convict Gotti and Locascio, but with Gravano's testimony were also able to eventually convict 7 Gambino captains and several soldiers. And the feds absolutely did need Gravano's testimony. Whenever the government introduces a RICO case, it is largely based on two things - surveillance and informants. It's a two pronged approach that is very hard to defend against. The photos, bugs, wiretaps, etc. support the witness' testimony and the witness' testimony supports the photos, bugs, and wiretaps. That's why the government was willing to give Gravano such a good deal. His cooperation strengthened their case considerably.
Azure9920 wrote:I guess you missed the decades he spent as Gotti's bitch?
It's true that Gravano was always extremely loyal to Gotti, even to a fault. But I wouldn't consider him to have been "Gotti's bitch." Gravano was the power behind the throne. The one who oversaw much of the family affairs while Gotti was hopping from nightclub to nightclub with his entorouge almost every night. And it was Gravano who warned Gotti a number of times about the danger of meeting each and every week at the Ravenite club and ordering every single captain in the family to show up right with the FBI taking pictures of it all across the street. But Gotti ignored him. Meanwhile, Gravano would have his own meetings much more secretly, often meeting in some hotel room at 3:00 in the morning. But even with all Gotti's faults, Gravano was his most loyal supporter. He had a number of people killed that Gotti felt was a threat and he alone kicked up about $1.2 million a year to Gotti as tribute.

Where things began to change is when the Gambino administration - Gotti, Gravano, Locascio - were arrested in 1991. They all heard the hours of tapes of Gotti blabbing away in numerous incriminating conversations, as well as badmouthing Gravano behind is back. That, as well as the fact that the government had so much evidence against them, was a prime reason why Gravano decided to flip. But there was also another incident that Gravano talked about in his book "Underboss." It was while they were being held in jail awaiting trial. Locascio had gotten his hand on some oranges and gave one to Gravano, kept one for himself, and saved three more for Gotti. But Gotti was pissed that Locascio had given Gravano his orange first and screamed at and belittled Locascio. Locascio was so humiliated and upset that he was almost in tears. At that point, both he and Gravano had enough of Gotti and they actually planned on killing him if they ever got out of jail.

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Unread post by AnthonyJ33 » May 29th, 2008, 8:33 am

thewestside wrote:
AnthonyJ33 wrote:I can't believe the deal that Sammy Gravano received from the government. Gravano gets a slap on the wrist for an admitted role in at least 19 murders; Gotti, on the other hand, was overhead talking about his role in about 3 murders, and he gets the life in prison without parole. Just because Gotti had the title of "boss," didn't mean that he was any more dangerous than Gravano. The government had an airtight case against Gotti; they didn't need the testimony of Gravano to put him away. Both Gotti and Gravano should have been locked away together back in 1992.
The government certainly made a "deal with the devil" when they allowed Gravano to turn on Gotti. Many people have a problem with allowing one mafioso to get off in order to convict another mafioso. But the reality is, that is what it takes to defeat the mob. Divide and conquer. Yes, Gravano was guilty of murder or of ordering murders himself, but many of them were at the behest of Gotti. And let's face it, Gotti sealed his own fate by how he operated as a boss. His flashy, in your face style pissed off the feds, who had been having their noses rubbed in it for years by Gotti who beat them in three seperate trials. In the end, the ultimate desire of the government is to destroy the mob as an organization. What happens to one mobster or another means only so much as long as the organization itself is weakened. And that's what happened with Gravano's defection. Not only were they able to convict Gotti and Locascio, but with Gravano's testimony were also able to eventually convict 7 Gambino captains and several soldiers. And the feds absolutely did need Gravano's testimony. Whenever the government introduces a RICO case, it is largely based on two things - surveillance and informants. It's a two pronged approach that is very hard to defend against. The photos, bugs, wiretaps, etc. support the witness' testimony and the witness' testimony supports the photos, bugs, and wiretaps. That's why the government was willing to give Gravano such a good deal. His cooperation strengthened their case considerably.
Azure9920 wrote:I guess you missed the decades he spent as Gotti's bitch?
It's true that Gravano was always extremely loyal to Gotti, even to a fault. But I wouldn't consider him to have been "Gotti's bitch." Gravano was the power behind the throne. The one who oversaw much of the family affairs while Gotti was hopping from nightclub to nightclub with his entorouge almost every night. And it was Gravano who warned Gotti a number of times about the danger of meeting each and every week at the Ravenite club and ordering every single captain in the family to show up right with the FBI taking pictures of it all across the street. But Gotti ignored him. Meanwhile, Gravano would have his own meetings much more secretly, often meeting in some hotel room at 3:00 in the morning. But even with all Gotti's faults, Gravano was his most loyal supporter. He had a number of people killed that Gotti felt was a threat and he alone kicked up about $1.2 million a year to Gotti as tribute.

Where things began to change is when the Gambino administration - Gotti, Gravano, Locascio - were arrested in 1991. They all heard the hours of tapes of Gotti blabbing away in numerous incriminating conversations, as well as badmouthing Gravano behind is back. That, as well as the fact that the government had so much evidence against them, was a prime reason why Gravano decided to flip. But there was also another incident that Gravano talked about in his book "Underboss." It was while they were being held in jail awaiting trial. Locascio had gotten his hand on some oranges and gave one to Gravano, kept one for himself, and saved three more for Gotti. But Gotti was pissed that Locascio had given Gravano his orange first and screamed at and belittled Locascio. Locascio was so humiliated and upset that he was almost in tears. At that point, both he and Gravano had enough of Gotti and they actually planned on killing him if they ever got out of jail.
Yeah, and supposedly Gotti got wind of the Gravano/LoCascio plot and tried to get the Aryan Brotherhood to "whack" Frank LoCascio in prison. But just like the contract to kill Walter Johnson, the LoCascio contract fizzled out.

Speaking of the arrest and later convictions of Gotti, Gravano, and Locascio, the convictions of Gotti and Gravano were a mere formality. However, the conviction of Frank Locascio, to me, was a little shaky. Gotti and Gravano were recorded discussing all kinds of mob mayhem, but Locascio for the most part was silent. He was basically convicted and sentenced to life imprisonment based on his "association" with Gotti and Gravano and on the assumption that he would not have been allowed to sit in on such high level mob meetings if he were in fact not a high-ranking, active, and important member of the Gambino family. It was more a conviction based on guilt by association than on any specific, verifiable criminal acts.

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Unread post by known-felon » May 29th, 2008, 1:10 pm

Azure9920 wrote:
known-felon wrote:Sammy did what Sammy always did....He looked after number one.
I guess you missed the decades he spent as Gotti's bitch?
I guess you don't know too much about the subject matter.

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Unread post by thewestside » May 29th, 2008, 3:16 pm

AnthonyJ33 wrote:Yeah, and supposedly Gotti got wind of the Gravano/LoCascio plot and tried to get the Aryan Brotherhood to "whack" Frank LoCascio in prison. But just like the contract to kill Walter Johnson, the LoCascio contract fizzled out.
Naturally Locascio denied ever plotting to kill Gotti. He recently lost his last appeal. He contended that during the trial Gotti had interfered with his lawyer's defense of him and so wanted his conviction overturned. There was actually some truth to that. When they were in jail, Gotti wouldn't allow Gravano or Locascio to meet with their lawyers separately from him and his lawyer.
Speaking of the arrest and later convictions of Gotti, Gravano, and Locascio, the convictions of Gotti and Gravano were a mere formality. However, the conviction of Frank Locascio, to me, was a little shaky. Gotti and Gravano were recorded discussing all kinds of mob mayhem, but Locascio for the most part was silent. He was basically convicted and sentenced to life imprisonment based on his "association" with Gotti and Gravano and on the assumption that he would not have been allowed to sit in on such high level mob meetings if he were in fact not a high-ranking, active, and important member of the Gambino family. It was more a conviction based on guilt by association than on any specific, verifiable criminal acts.
That's what RICO is all about. Each defendant doesn't need to have been personally involved in every crime in the indictment. Under the RICO law, the fact that Locascio was consigliere in the Gambino family and present at high level meetings with the other members of the administration where various crimes were planned and discussed was enough to convict him.

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Unread post by AnthonyJ33 » May 29th, 2008, 6:18 pm

thewestside wrote:
AnthonyJ33 wrote:Yeah, and supposedly Gotti got wind of the Gravano/LoCascio plot and tried to get the Aryan Brotherhood to "whack" Frank LoCascio in prison. But just like the contract to kill Walter Johnson, the LoCascio contract fizzled out.
Naturally Locascio denied ever plotting to kill Gotti. He recently lost his last appeal. He contended that during the trial Gotti had interfered with his lawyer's defense of him and so wanted his conviction overturned. There was actually some truth to that. When they were in jail, Gotti wouldn't allow Gravano or Locascio to meet with their lawyers separately from him and his lawyer.
Speaking of the arrest and later convictions of Gotti, Gravano, and Locascio, the convictions of Gotti and Gravano were a mere formality. However, the conviction of Frank Locascio, to me, was a little shaky. Gotti and Gravano were recorded discussing all kinds of mob mayhem, but Locascio for the most part was silent. He was basically convicted and sentenced to life imprisonment based on his "association" with Gotti and Gravano and on the assumption that he would not have been allowed to sit in on such high level mob meetings if he were in fact not a high-ranking, active, and important member of the Gambino family. It was more a conviction based on guilt by association than on any specific, verifiable criminal acts.
That's what RICO is all about. Each defendant doesn't need to have been personally involved in every crime in the indictment. Under the RICO law, the fact that Locascio was consigliere in the Gambino family and present at high level meetings with the other members of the administration where various crimes were planned and discussed was enough to convict him.
I'm not an authority on RICO. It's one of those laws that is full of gray areas and hard to interpret at times. But isn't a large part of obtaining a RICO conviction based on predicate acts committed by those being convicted of RICO within a certain time frame that constitutes a "pattern"?

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Unread post by thewestside » May 29th, 2008, 7:27 pm

AnthonyJ33 wrote:I'm not an authority on RICO. It's one of those laws that is full of gray areas and hard to interpret at times. But isn't a large part of obtaining a RICO conviction based on predicate acts committed by those being convicted of RICO within a certain time frame that constitutes a "pattern"?
The RICO Act is geared towards "ongoing criminal organizations." Under the law, any individual or group of people who commit any 2 of 35 specific crimes within a 10 year period, in which the prosecutor finds a "pattern of racketeering activity," can be indicted on racketeering charges. RICO indictments involve not only the crimes themselves, but also the conspiracy to commit those crimes.

Both Gotti and Locascio were charged with the following predicate acts: the conspiracy to murder and the murder of Louis DiBono; the conspiracy to murder Gaetano Vastola; conducting an illegal gambling business in Queens, New York; conducting an illegal gambling business in Connecticut; conspiracy to make extortionate extensions of credit; and obstruction of justice in the investigation of the Castellano murder. Gotti and Locascio were also charged in separate counts for conspiracy to obstruct grand jury investigations, bribery of a public servant, and a conspiracy to defraud the United States.

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