Chicago Mafia or Outfit

American organized crime groups included traditional groups such as La Cosa Nostra & the Italian Mafia to modern groups such as Black Mafia Family. Discuss the most organized criminal groups in the United States including gangs in Canada.
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Chicago Mafia or Outfit

Unread post by Richboy17 » June 24th, 2008, 4:30 pm

Are these guys supposbly was the most powerful family even till now in America. They had links to JFK's father and supposbly did the hit on JFK. They are known to control everything that is on the left of the Missisppi river.

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Re: Chicago Mafia or Outfit

Unread post by razbojnik » June 24th, 2008, 5:21 pm

Richboy17 wrote:Are these guys supposbly was the most powerful family even till now in America. They had links to JFK's father and supposbly did the hit on JFK. They are known to control everything that is on the left of the Missisppi river.
At the time of Al Capone, which was the boss of the Chicago Outfit during the 1920s till the 1930s before his incarciration, the Al Capone's gang, aka the Chicago Outfit, had a 1000 members and according to the Untouchables his gang the Chicago Outfit was making over 100 million dollars a year, or about 1-15 billion dollars a year in 1930 value of dollars measured today. Al Capone alone was making 3 million dollars back then, which is about 100 million dollars a year in today's money.

They were one of the most powerful families, maybe of that decade yes, 1920-1930, but as for now, this question is easily answered. No. Westside will tell you the same. Today's most powerful family in America, the richest/wealthiest and biggest is the Genovese family, with over 200 members and maybe a 1000 associates. Gambino has about the same, 200 members and 800 associates, but it has been weakened by FBI indictments, so they would be second, yet they were the most powerful, richest and biggest during the 1990s and 1980s when Gotti reigned.

They did not put the hit out on JFK, from what I heard it was some powerful guy from Miami with a bunch of others, this is what I heard:

The CIA made a deal with the Mafia to assassinate Fidel Castro since during the 1960s, as you saw with Godfather Part 2, the Italian-American mafia had a great presence in Havanna, Cuba, especially with the casino business, which was said to have been bigger and better than anything you've ever seen in Las Vegas. But something happened, I think the information of the hit was leaked out, and in order for the world not to know that JFK and the CIA and the US government made a deal with the Mafia to assassinate Fidel Castro, JFK planned to take down all the guys involved with the assassination just so the idea would keep quiet. But of course, this was leaked out too, the Mafia bosses found out, and the Mafia found the perfect time, place and reason, and oooh the guy for the job. Harvey Oswald was known to be a pissed off man at his own country, being disappointed that no one gave a shit about him, he went to the Soviet Union where the KGB spied on him thus this would be where he had connections, oh and yes he was disappointed with both superpowers, so he went back, and he was pissed off enough to take out the president. Here's the perfect guy. It wasn't the Mafia, it was the Soviet Union who ordered the assasination of JFK!!! That's the perfect cover up. Of course Oswald got shot dead, then the guy who shot Oswald died in a car crash if I remember correctly. Trace gone. 40 years later amazing advancements have been made. :D

Also, what do you mean by controlling the Mississipi river? Chicago is in Illinois. Also, how control it? Maybe the water routes? Do they have drug ops with Marijuana growing there? What? Be more specific.

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Re: Chicago Mafia or Outfit

Unread post by Richboy17 » June 24th, 2008, 6:51 pm

razbojnik wrote:
Richboy17 wrote:Are these guys supposbly was the most powerful family even till now in America. They had links to JFK's father and supposbly did the hit on JFK. They are known to control everything that is on the left of the Missisppi river.
At the time of Al Capone, which was the boss of the Chicago Outfit during the 1920s till the 1930s before his incarciration, the Al Capone's gang, aka the Chicago Outfit, had a 1000 members and according to the Untouchables his gang the Chicago Outfit was making over 100 million dollars a year, or about 1-15 billion dollars a year in 1930 value of dollars measured today. Al Capone alone was making 3 million dollars back then, which is about 100 million dollars a year in today's money.

They were one of the most powerful families, maybe of that decade yes, 1920-1930, but as for now, this question is easily answered. No. Westside will tell you the same. Today's most powerful family in America, the richest/wealthiest and biggest is the Genovese family, with over 200 members and maybe a 1000 associates. Gambino has about the same, 200 members and 800 associates, but it has been weakened by FBI indictments, so they would be second, yet they were the most powerful, richest and biggest during the 1990s and 1980s when Gotti reigned.

They did not put the hit out on JFK, from what I heard it was some powerful guy from Miami with a bunch of others, this is what I heard:

The CIA made a deal with the Mafia to assassinate Fidel Castro since during the 1960s, as you saw with Godfather Part 2, the Italian-American mafia had a great presence in Havanna, Cuba, especially with the casino business, which was said to have been bigger and better than anything you've ever seen in Las Vegas. But something happened, I think the information of the hit was leaked out, and in order for the world not to know that JFK and the CIA and the US government made a deal with the Mafia to assassinate Fidel Castro, JFK planned to take down all the guys involved with the assassination just so the idea would keep quiet. But of course, this was leaked out too, the Mafia bosses found out, and the Mafia found the perfect time, place and reason, and oooh the guy for the job. Harvey Oswald was known to be a pissed off man at his own country, being disappointed that no one gave a shit about him, he went to the Soviet Union where the KGB spied on him thus this would be where he had connections, oh and yes he was disappointed with both superpowers, so he went back, and he was pissed off enough to take out the president. Here's the perfect guy. It wasn't the Mafia, it was the Soviet Union who ordered the assasination of JFK!!! That's the perfect cover up. Of course Oswald got shot dead, then the guy who shot Oswald died in a car crash if I remember correctly. Trace gone. 40 years later amazing advancements have been made. :D

Also, what do you mean by controlling the Mississipi river? Chicago is in Illinois. Also, how control it? Maybe the water routes? Do they have drug ops with Marijuana growing there? What? Be more specific.
They control everything thats west of the missippi. Basically meaning they control all mob rackets on the mid and west coast. All families answer to them on that side like the Detroit Patnership, Milwaukee Mob, Los Angelos Family, etc. They call all the shots on the west coast, and that is why I think that they would be the most powerful family in America. Unlike in NY the Five Families have control in NYC, New Jersey, New England, and Philadelphia.

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Re: Chicago Mafia or Outfit

Unread post by thewestside » June 24th, 2008, 7:12 pm

Richboy17 wrote:Are these guys supposbly was the most powerful family even till now in America. They had links to JFK's father and supposbly did the hit on JFK. They are known to control everything that is on the left of the Missisppi river.
Though many of these assertions have been disputed, it has long been believed that Joseph Kennedy was involved in bootlegging to some extent or another during Prohibition, part of his fortune having come from that, and he having developed contacts with members of organized crime. It has also long been said (also disputed) that the Chicago Outfit helped John F. Kennedy win crucial votes in Illinois from which he won the election in 1960. Whether this was true or not, John's brother Bobby became a big problem for the mob when he was made Attorney General. He went after high ranking mafiosi in various cities, including Sam Giancana in Chicago, Carlos Marcello in New Orleans, Santo Trafficante in Tampa, as well as Teamsters Union President Jimmy Hoffa. It is well known that all of the above men wanted Bobby Kennedy dead. But it has been said that they feared killing Bobby because that would lead to the full powers of the President coming down on their heads. Their philosophy was, "cut off the head and the tail dies," i.e. kill John Kennedy and Bobby would lose his power. Whether this is actually what happened will probably never be known. What is known is that after John Kennedy was killed, Bobby Kennedy's crusade against the mob came to an end. So whether the mob was actually involved with the Kennedy assassination or not, they certainly benefited from it. An interesting side note, years later Santo Trafficante's former lawyer Frank Ragano wrote a book on his life entitled Mob Lawyer, in which he talked about how Trafficante told him that he, Carlos Marcello, and people in the Chicago Outfit had Kennedy killed and that Jimmy Hoffa owed them for that.
razbojnik wrote:At the time of Al Capone, which was the boss of the Chicago Outfit during the 1920s till the 1930s before his incarciration, the Al Capone's gang, aka the Chicago Outfit, had a 1000 members and according to the Untouchables his gang the Chicago Outfit was making over 100 million dollars a year, or about 1-15 billion dollars a year in 1930 value of dollars measured today. Al Capone alone was making 3 million dollars back then, which is about 100 million dollars a year in today's money.
Capone's organization may have had as many as 1,000 members and associates, but not just 1,000 members alone. At it's peak, the Outfit may have had about 200 made members.
They were one of the most powerful families, maybe of that decade yes, 1920-1930, but as for now, this question is easily answered. No. Westside will tell you the same. Today's most powerful family in America, the richest/wealthiest and biggest is the Genovese family, with over 200 members and maybe a 1000 associates. Gambino has about the same, 200 members and 800 associates, but it has been weakened by FBI indictments, so they would be second, yet they were the most powerful, richest and biggest during the 1990s and 1980s when Gotti reigned.
From the 1920's when it was known as the Masseria family to today, the Genovese family has always been the wealthiest and most powerful LCN family in the nation. The Chicago Outfit rivaled the Genovese in some respects during it's peak years in the 1950's and 1960's, and the Gambinos rivaled the Genovese in some respects during the 1970's and 1980's. But overall, from the beginning till now, the Genovese have always been the top family in the country.

At their respective peaks, the Genovese were slightly larger than the Gambinos. The Genovese had about 450 members while the Gambinos had about 400. The Gambinos surpassed the Genovese somewhat in size during the 1970's to become the largest family in the country. However the Genovese remained wealthier and more powerful. Over the past 15 years or so the Gambino's membership has declined somewhat while the Genovese' membership has remained stable. As a result, both families today have about 200 members. The average estimates for associates for each family is 3-5 for every made member. So both have anywhere between 600-1,000 associates.
They did not put the hit out on JFK, from what I heard it was some powerful guy from Miami with a bunch of others, this is what I heard:

The CIA made a deal with the Mafia to assassinate Fidel Castro since during the 1960s, as you saw with Godfather Part 2, the Italian-American mafia had a great presence in Havanna, Cuba, especially with the casino business, which was said to have been bigger and better than anything you've ever seen in Las Vegas. But something happened, I think the information of the hit was leaked out, and in order for the world not to know that JFK and the CIA and the US government made a deal with the Mafia to assassinate Fidel Castro, JFK planned to take down all the guys involved with the assassination just so the idea would keep quiet. But of course, this was leaked out too, the Mafia bosses found out, and the Mafia found the perfect time, place and reason, and oooh the guy for the job. Harvey Oswald was known to be a pissed off man at his own country, being disappointed that no one gave a shit about him, he went to the Soviet Union where the KGB spied on him thus this would be where he had connections, oh and yes he was disappointed with both superpowers, so he went back, and he was pissed off enough to take out the president. Here's the perfect guy. It wasn't the Mafia, it was the Soviet Union who ordered the assasination of JFK!!! That's the perfect cover up. Of course Oswald got shot dead, then the guy who shot Oswald died in a car crash if I remember correctly. Trace gone. 40 years later amazing advancements have been made. :D
We'll likely never know the full story surrounding the assassination of Kennedy. There are links that go in many different directions, including the mob, the CIA, the Bay of Pigs fiasco, the Vietnam War, the Soviet Union, Oswald, etc.
Also, what do you mean by controlling the Mississipi river? Chicago is in Illinois. Also, how control it? Maybe the water routes? Do they have drug ops with Marijuana growing there? What? Be more specific.
When casino gambling was legalized in Atlantic City in 1976, the New York and Chicago families made an agreement that the Outfit would stay out of Atlantic City if they could have Las Vegas for themselves. By that time, many of the families in the Midwest and on the West coast were weakening somewhat and had come under the influence of the Outfit to a certain degree. Just as the Genovese family represented many of the East coast families on the Commission, the Outfit represented many of the families west of Chicago. They didn't "control" everything west of the Mississippi per se, but they had a strong influence over it. The Outfit continues to exert a certain amount of influence over the families remaining west of Chicago and is still active itself in both Nevada and California. After the Outfit lost it's last control of casinos in the 1980's, Las Vegas was more or less an open city again and now families from New York and other parts of the East coast operate there, as well as California.

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Re: Chicago Mafia or Outfit

Unread post by thewestside » June 24th, 2008, 7:23 pm

Richboy17 wrote:They control everything thats west of the missippi. Basically meaning they control all mob rackets on the mid and west coast. All families answer to them on that side like the Detroit Patnership, Milwaukee Mob, Los Angelos Family, etc. They call all the shots on the west coast, and that is why I think that they would be the most powerful family in America. Unlike in NY the Five Families have control in NYC, New Jersey, New England, and Philadelphia.
As I said above, the Chicago Outfit doesn't control all of the rackets in the Midwest or on the West coast. They have a certain level of influence over what's left of the Midwest families - Kansas City, St. Louis, Milwaukee, etc. Both Nevada and California are open territory. The Outfit operates there but so do a number of other families. Of all the families, the Outfit probably has the most political influence remaining. But that is on a limited local basis and is by no means pervasive. Chicago is one of a number of cities remaining where there is still a certain degree of union corruption. But that usually comes in the form of things like mob members and associates, as well as their friends and family members, getting union jobs with health benefits. There is a difference between this and actual labor racketeering activity, which is basically carried out only by the New York families now. To a large degree, the Outfit is a street operation now. Their main income is from illegal gambling (bookmaking, video poker machines), loansharking (juice loans), and extortion (the street tax). Many of the higher ranking members have interests in various legitimate businesses like restaurants, construction, waste hauling, auto dealerships, real estate, etc.

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Re: Chicago Mafia or Outfit

Unread post by paingod » June 28th, 2008, 10:10 pm

What about the casinos on the Islands like Aruba? The Outfit is the only internationally dominant crime family from America.

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Re: Chicago Mafia or Outfit

Unread post by thewestside » June 29th, 2008, 6:33 pm

paingod wrote:What about the casinos on the Islands like Aruba? The Outfit is the only internationally dominant crime family from America.
I don't think "internationally dominant" is the right phrase. No American LCN family can be considered to be international. Many LCN families have wirerooms for their gambling operations based in Costa Rica but that doesn't mean they are international.

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Re: Chicago Mafia or Outfit

Unread post by paingod » July 3rd, 2008, 11:19 pm

Today, what's The Outfit's biggest money maker? Video poker/gambling? Narcotics? Shake-downs? What? Who are the dominant figures in The Outfit?

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Re: Chicago Mafia or Outfit

Unread post by thewestside » July 4th, 2008, 7:27 am

paingod wrote:Today, what's The Outfit's biggest money maker? Video poker/gambling? Narcotics? Shake-downs? What? Who are the dominant figures in The Outfit?
Illegal gambling (in all it's forms) is the single biggest gross money maker for every LCN family. And the biggest money maker gambling wise for just about every LCN family, including the Outfit, is bookmaking. Sports betting is one area where the LCN has remained the dominant group in the nation. They have the experience and national network that nobody else has. In gambling, besides bookmaking, there is also the numbers racket, video gambling, high-stakes card and dice games, and illegal casinos. Narcotics would be the second biggest money maker for the LCN after gambling. Narcotics is actually a more profitable business than gambling but the LCN has always been more deeply involved in gambling than it has been in drugs.

The current top figures in the Chicago Outfit are John "No Nose" DiFronzo, James "Jimmy the Man" Marcello, Joseph "The Clown" Lombardo, Joseph "The Builder" Andriacchi, John "Pudgy" Matassa, Rudolph "Rudy" Fratto, Peter DiFronzo, James "King" Culotta, Frank "Toots" Caruso, and Alphonse "Al the Pizza Man" Tornabene.

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Re: Chicago Mafia or Outfit

Unread post by Azure9920 » July 4th, 2008, 8:48 am

thewestside wrote:
paingod wrote:James "Jimmy the Man" Marcello, .
Is that any relation to Carlos?

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Re: Chicago Mafia or Outfit

Unread post by thewestside » July 4th, 2008, 5:18 pm

Azure9920 wrote:Is that any relation to Carlos?
No, no relation.

I should correct a name I put above - it's actually Joseph "Joe Kong" Culotta.

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Re: Chicago Mafia or Outfit

Unread post by paingod » July 4th, 2008, 8:08 pm

thewestside wrote:
Azure9920 wrote:Is that any relation to Carlos?
No, no relation.

I should correct a name I put above - it's actually Joseph "Joe Kong" Culotta.
Is he related to Frank Cullotta who ratted out Spilotro?

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Re: Chicago Mafia or Outfit

Unread post by thewestside » July 4th, 2008, 10:17 pm

paingod wrote:Is he related to Frank Cullotta who ratted out Spilotro?
No, I don't believe there is any relation there either.

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Re: Chicago Mafia or Outfit

Unread post by paingod » July 5th, 2008, 9:40 pm

Does The Chicago Mafia run by commitee? I've heard there is a 10 to 12 member commitee that rules on desisions and the boss spot is just a member of that commitee selected to be a lightning rod for the FBI. Names of this commitee vary but some mentioned were DiFronzo,Lombardo,Tournabene,Vitta,Caruso,D'Amico,Andracchi,Marcello and non Italians like Posner etc. Is there names missing? And does The Chicago Mafia still have a lot of fixers/connection guys of non- italian descent?

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Re: Chicago Mafia or Outfit

Unread post by thewestside » July 6th, 2008, 12:16 am

paingod wrote:Does The Chicago Mafia run by commitee? I've heard there is a 10 to 12 member commitee that rules on desisions and the boss spot is just a member of that commitee selected to be a lightning rod for the FBI. Names of this commitee vary but some mentioned were DiFronzo,Lombardo,Tournabene,Vitta,Caruso,D'Amico,Andracchi,Marcello and non Italians like Posner etc. Is there names missing? And does The Chicago Mafia still have a lot of fixers/connection guys of non- italian descent?
You could say that. It's similar to the way the Genovese family is currently run, i.e. by a number of top Captains, with one of them stepping up as Acting Boss from time to time. In the Outfit, John "No Nose" DiFronzo is the Boss but he's very low key. He prefers to stay in the background and deligate much of his authority to other top guys in the organization. That's a big reason why he's lasted so long. James "Jimmy the Man" Marcello is still official Underboss even though he is now in prison. Same for Joseph "Joey the Clown" Lombardo, who remains official Consigliere even though he is now in prison as well. Alphonse "Al the Pizza Man" Tornabene is rumored to be the new Acting Consigliere. Joseph "The Builder" Andriacchi remains the North Side Boss but is also kind of like the Street Boss over all the Area Bosses and Lieutenants now. John "Pudgy" Matassa heads the Rush Street/North Side Crew. Rudolph "Rudy" Fratto and Peter DiFronzo head the Elmwood Park Crew. Both of those crews fall under the authority of Andriacchi. Joseph "Joe Kong" Culotta is the West Side Area Boss. It's not clear right now who is heading the Grand Avenue Crew, which falls under the West Side's territory. Frank "Toots" Caruso is the South Side Boss. It's not clear who is heading the Chinatown/26th Street or Cicero/Melrose Park Crews right now either. They both fall under the South Side's territory. There is some question as to how active Marco D'Amico still is, though he still has a lot of seniority in the Family. A guy like Michael Posner is strictly an earner. He doesn't have any executive authority in the organization. There are still some non-Italians who head certain operations but nobody really left in the upper rungs of the organization. While the Outfit used to have a number of non-Italians in very high positions in the past (Murray "The Camel" Humphreys, Jake "Greasy Thumb" Guzik, Gus Alex, etc.) it has become more and more of an "Italian thing" over the years, similar to other LCN Families.

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Re: Chicago Mafia or Outfit

Unread post by Eld » July 6th, 2008, 2:25 pm

Salvatore DeLaurentis at 69 could be a major player, he went to jail in 1991, got out in 2006. In Chicago the make up of the crews and their territory has become more sketchy when people began moving to the suburbs. Jay Albanese in "Contemporary Issues in Organized Crime" (1995) analyzes Chicago and the crews; seems some in the Grand Avenue crew moved to Elmwood Park, and the Taylor Street crew (now defunct) moved to Melrose Park and Elmwood Park. However the Grand Avenue crew still exists but it's not the important crew it used to be. According to former FBI agent Jack O'Rourke Joe Lombardo amassed considerable property in the Grand Avenue during the 90's.

Also, it seems Vincent Cuzzo ran things for Lombardo while he was in prison:
"Peter Wacks and other mob watchers say that while Lombardo was away, he put Vincent "Jimmy" Cozzo in charge of the Grand Avenue crew. Cozzo is a former Teamsters official-and once a technical adviser to the state transportation department-whom the union barred in 1990 because of his mob activities. In the 1980s, Cozzo built a casino-hotel on the Caribbean island of Curaçao that the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration reportedly once suspected laundered the Chicago mob's drug money. "And anything that Jimmy Cozzo was doing down there, Joey had a piece of," says Wacks."
http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magaz ... ?cp=4&si=3

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Re: Chicago Mafia or Outfit

Unread post by sheila » July 6th, 2008, 3:38 pm

how do they help people? for explan i want to gain cusdoy of my child and need to raise the money so can they help me or are they just on drugs, money and power on which they don't have because the goverment is the biggest gang their is.....

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Re: Chicago Mafia or Outfit

Unread post by thewestside » July 6th, 2008, 4:17 pm

Eld wrote:Salvatore DeLaurentis at 69 could be a major player, he went to jail in 1991, got out in 2006. In Chicago the make up of the crews and their territory has become more sketchy when people began moving to the suburbs. Jay Albanese in "Contemporary Issues in Organized Crime" (1995) analyzes Chicago and the crews; seems some in the Grand Avenue crew moved to Elmwood Park, and the Taylor Street crew (now defunct) moved to Melrose Park and Elmwood Park. However the Grand Avenue crew still exists but it's not the important crew it used to be. According to former FBI agent Jack O'Rourke Joe Lombardo amassed considerable property in the Grand Avenue during the 90's.

Also, it seems Vincent Cuzzo ran things for Lombardo while he was in prison:
"Peter Wacks and other mob watchers say that while Lombardo was away, he put Vincent "Jimmy" Cozzo in charge of the Grand Avenue crew. Cozzo is a former Teamsters official-and once a technical adviser to the state transportation department-whom the union barred in 1990 because of his mob activities. In the 1980s, Cozzo built a casino-hotel on the Caribbean island of Curaçao that the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration reportedly once suspected laundered the Chicago mob's drug money. "And anything that Jimmy Cozzo was doing down there, Joey had a piece of," says Wacks."
http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magaz ... ?cp=4&si=3
It seems that a number of Outfit members, even when they reached very high positions in the organization, have maintained a large degree of direct supervision over their crews. Joey Lombardo continued to oversee the Grand Avenue crew when he wasn't in prison. Joseph Andriacchi has always maintained direct oversight of the North Side crews. Peter DiFronzo, along with Rudy Fratto, run the Elmwood Park crew for John DiFronzo. Of course Jimmy Cozzo has since died.

As we know, the Outfit reorganized itself into three general areas in 1994 - the North Side, West Side, and South Side. An Area Boss oversaw each of these territories, including Lieutenants which oversaw specific crews within the territories. There has been a lot of discrepency about how the crews have shaped up since then, especially in many articles that came out during the "Family Secrets" trial.

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Re: Chicago Mafia or Outfit

Unread post by Richboy17 » July 11th, 2008, 10:20 am

Doesn't the Chicago Outfit have like over a thousand associates? And how come they aren't making many men like NY.

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Re: Chicago Mafia or Outfit

Unread post by thewestside » July 14th, 2008, 2:33 am

Richboy17 wrote:Doesn't the Chicago Outfit have like over a thousand associates? And how come they aren't making many men like NY.
Like all the families, the associate estimate for Chicago varies widely. In 1997, the Chicago Crime Commission estimated between 700-1,200 associates. That's definitely on the high end. The FBI during the "Family Secrets" case in 2006 said there are a little over 100 associates. That's definitely on the low end. The discrepency comes from how one defines an associate. The Outfit has always relied on a large pool of associates to do much of it's business, while the organization is run by an inner circle of made members. Estimates for members in the Outfit range from about 30 to 65. While it doesn't have as many made members as the New York families, the Outfit probably has about as many associates, no doubt in the several hundred at least.

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