Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

American organized crime groups included traditional groups such as La Cosa Nostra & the Italian Mafia to modern groups such as Black Mafia Family. Discuss the most organized criminal groups in the United States including gangs in Canada.
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Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by thewestside » January 30th, 2009, 6:14 pm

Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007
By Flavia Krause-Jackson


Jan. 30 (Bloomberg) -- Revenue raked in by Italy’s mob surged 40 percent last year, turning crime into the nation’s No. 1 business, Eurispes said in its annual report.

Income increased to 130 billion euros ($167 billion), up from about 90 billion euros in 2007, according to figures supplied by Eurispes and SOS Impresa, an association of businessmen to protest against extortion. Drug trafficking remains the primary source of revenue, bringing in about 59 billion euros, and the mob earned 5.8 billion euros from selling arms, the Rome-based Eurispes research group said today.

“During a crisis, people lower their guard,” Roberto Saviano, who wrote the bestseller “Gomorrah” about the Camorra crime bosses, said in an interview. “Studies show the criminal market never suffers during a crisis. I’m convinced that this crisis is bringing huge advantages to criminal syndicates.”

Organized crime groups siphon 92 billion euros, about 6 percent of Italy’s gross domestic product, from Italian businesses a year through protection payments, usurious interest rates on loans and other forms of extortion, Eurispes estimates. That works out to 250 million euros a day and 10 million euros an hour, Eurispes said. Italians are struggling to make mortgage payments and support their families as the worst recession since 1975 threatens jobs and makes banks more reluctant lenders.

“With people more desperate, loan sharks thrive,” Amedeo Vitagliano, an Italian crime expert at Eurispses, said in a telephone interview. “While the country is on its knees, the mob rejoices.”

Tide Turning?

There are signs that the tide could turn against the mob. Italy’s biggest employers’ group, Confindustria, a year ago took its strongest stance against organized crime in its 98-year history, announcing that any members found to have paid the Sicilian Cosa Nostra an extortion payment, known as the “pizzo,” would be expelled. Still, when the new rule was announced, only five members of the association admitted having received mob threats.

The country’s main criminal syndicates are the Mafia in Sicily, the Camorra based around Naples and the ‘Ndrangheta that operates from Calabria, the region located at Italy’s southern toe.

Eurispes estimates that the Italian authorities confiscated 5.2 billion euros in assets from the mob last year. The Camorra had 2.9 billion euros seized, the report says. The Sicilian Mafia had 1.4 billion euros sequestered and ‘Ndrangheta, 231 million euros, Eurispes said.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... fer=europe

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by CheGuevara » January 30th, 2009, 7:14 pm

$130bn Euros is worth $171bn USD and is this counting all of the mafia's in Italy?

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by thewestside » January 30th, 2009, 7:25 pm

CheGuevara wrote:$130bn Euros is worth $171bn USD and is this counting all of the mafia's in Italy?
The article above only cites the Cosa Nostra, Camorra, and 'Ndrangheta. However, other reports (which have also come from Eurispes and SOS Impresa) that have resulted in similar findings have also included the Sacra Corona Unita.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by CheGuevara » January 30th, 2009, 7:44 pm

The number seems a little high. The Global Drugs Index thing you provided stated that cocaine is only worth $19bn USD in Europe and heroin is worth $38bn USD. Yet these organizations which are usually the same ones making estimates about the Italian mafia are saying that they made $59bn just on drug trafficking. I do not even believe that $70bn USD estimate from 2002 for the Albanian mafia. It seems ridiculous to me. The numbers are too high.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by thewestside » January 30th, 2009, 8:11 pm

CheGuevara wrote:The number seems a little high. The Global Drugs Index thing you provided stated that cocaine is only worth $19bn USD in Europe and heroin is worth $38bn USD. Yet these organizations which are usually the same ones making estimates about the Italian mafia are saying that they made $59bn just on drug trafficking. I do not even believe that $70bn USD estimate from 2002 for the Albanian mafia. It seems ridiculous to me. The numbers are too high.
The UN Global Index is simply a general estimate for different drugs all over the world. In relation to the Italian Mafia's income, the estimates from Eurispes and SOS Impressa are more accurate, as they are geared towards two specific (but separate) studies.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by CheGuevara » January 30th, 2009, 8:26 pm

The numbers still seem too high. Take the Interpol estimate on the Albanians. They said they increased drug profits from $38bn to $70bn in only three years. Lets say for the sake of my upcoming math that it rose to $100bn.

$100bn divided by 10,000,000 Albanians worldwide = $10,000 per Albanian or $40,000 per household [assuming that the household is 4 people]. So that would mean the Albanian population is each making $40,000 a year just on drugs through out the world.

Another estimate. Most reports claim that Albanian traffickers control AT LEAST 30,000 prostitutes through out Europe that are forced to "work" 20 times a day.

So that would mean 30,000 X $100 [fee] X 20 X 365 = $21,900,000,000 yearly.

So that would mean that each Albanian houshold in the world is receiving $8,760 yearly just on prostitution. Together that would mean that every Albanian household across the world is making $48,760 yearly just on drugs and prostitution.

Most Albanians are wealthy I agree [dont mean to brag], but those are astronomical figures. Add the income of most Albanians [who work legally] and add other rackets the Albanians are in involved in such as the arms trade, human smuggling, corruption, robbery, etc... and you have the richest people in the world by far in terms of per 100,000.

This is why the numbers are too high. It does not make sense.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by thewestside » January 30th, 2009, 8:46 pm

CheGuevara wrote:The numbers still seem too high. Take the Interpol estimate on the Albanians. They said they increased drug profits from $38bn to $70bn in only three years. Lets say for the sake of my upcoming math that it rose to $100bn.

$100bn divided by 10,000,000 Albanians worldwide = $10,000 per Albanian or $40,000 per household [assuming that the household is 4 people]. So that would mean the Albanian population is each making $40,000 a year just on drugs through out the world.

Another estimate. Most reports claim that Albanian traffickers control AT LEAST 30,000 prostitutes through out Europe that are forced to "work" 20 times a day.

So that would mean 30,000 X $100 [fee] X 20 X 365 = $21,900,000,000 yearly.

So that would mean that each Albanian houshold in the world is receiving $8,760 yearly just on prostitution. Together that would mean that every Albanian household across the world is making $48,760 yearly just on drugs and prostitution.

Most Albanians are wealthy I agree [dont mean to brag], but those are astronomical figures. Add the income of most Albanians [who work legally] and add other rackets the Albanians are in involved in such as the arms trade, human smuggling, corruption, robbery, etc... and you have the richest people in the world by far in terms of per 100,000.

This is why the numbers are too high. It does not make sense.
First, why are you dividing the (hypothetical) $100 billion by all 10 million Albanians in the world? Not even you can possibly think that every single Albanian on this planet is involved in crime.

Second, you are trying to compare numbers from estimate to another when they really have nothing to do with each other.

Third, as I said, the estimates (which are done yearly) by the two Italian think tanks SOS Impressa and Eurispes are the most reliable you are going to get on the profits of Italian organize crime. Of course, one thing to keep in mind is that not ever dollar (or Euro) of that $167 billion is going into the pockets of mobsters. It's the combined profits that go to the mafiosi themselves, their businesses, associates, employees, and so on.

Fourth, what do you mean most Albanians are wealthy? Relatively speaking, Albania is one of the poorest countries in the world.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by thewestside » January 30th, 2009, 10:08 pm

I should also point out that Eurispes and SOS Impressa have been doing these annual estimates for years. And each year they come to the same general conclusions. And each year the combined profits of the four major Italian syndicates has been increasing.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by CheGuevara » January 31st, 2009, 10:41 am

First, why are you dividing the (hypothetical) $100 billion by all 10 million Albanians in the world? Not even you can possibly think that every single Albanian on this planet is involved in crime.
I am just dividing the "estimated Albanian mafia profits" by the Albanian population. Only a percentage of the Albanian population in the world is involved in crime. Most of them working legally. But if I add up all of the "estimations" of the Albanian mafia's profits. It would make Albanians the richest people in the world in terms of income per 100,000 people. And that does not make sense because Albanians are not THAT rich. Meaning something is off with the calculations. This is why I have a hard time believing such high numbers for any mafia organization. The global mafia profits are around a trillion dollars right? So if you add up the Italians, Albanians and Russian, they account for more then 50% of the global profits? I dont think so.
Third, as I said, the estimates (which are done yearly) by the two Italian think tanks SOS Impressa and Eurispes are the most reliable you are going to get on the profits of Italian organize crime. Of course, one thing to keep in mind is that not ever dollar (or Euro) of that $167 billion is going into the pockets of mobsters. It's the combined profits that go to the mafiosi themselves, their businesses, associates, employees, and so on.
I guess it depends on how you calculate it... but still, it is crazy to try and estimate the profits of a secret society [the mafia]. I mean, they might be able to estimate their drug profits, prostitution profits, extortion profits. But they cannot possibly estimate the entire profits of the Italian mafia syndicates. Are these organizations soley dedicated to the Italian mafia's profits?
Fourth, what do you mean most Albanians are wealthy? Relatively speaking, Albania is one of the poorest countries in the world.
Albania is very poor, everyone knows that. But the people arent. I cannot name a single person in my family or extended family [fis, clan, etc...] who is poor over there except for one aunt but even she gets by pretty decent. The Gypsies are pretty broke but they do not count as Albanians. And you can hear it from Razbojnik, the Albanians in Macedonia are much richer then the Macedonians. When the Macedonian government builds something lavish like a shopping center or something, they have put up signs saying, "Albanians cannot buy this" lol. Thats not a joke either, sad but real.

And over here, most Albanian families have good jobs or are self employed with the exception of the new immigrants who work in low income jobs for the time being. Take the Bronx situation for example. 35% of the buildings, 33% of the Pizzerias, and that was in 1992. The number is much higher now.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by mmd604 » January 31st, 2009, 11:32 am

that number is laughable there is simply no way. Yes i agree the italian are by far the most powerful and rich organized crime figures in the world. In gonna say that they take 20/30 billion profit annually

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by CheGuevara » January 31st, 2009, 3:14 pm

I dont know if I would call them the richest and most powerful. There are still the Albanians, Russians and Chinese gangsters who are right on their level field. The Russians have Russia which is a big country of 150 million people. The Chinese have China which is 1.3bn people. The Albanians are the most powerful in Europe, not to mention they have a zone [Albania, Kosova, Western Macedonia] in which they are totally free of any obstacle.. Not to mention all three mafia's operate on a global scale. The Russians and Chinese surpass them for sure in terms of numbers and wealth. Debatable between them and the Albanians.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by CheGuevara » January 31st, 2009, 3:15 pm

20-30bn also seems kind of low. I would estimate them at 60-70bn.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by thewestside » January 31st, 2009, 3:40 pm

I think you guys are misunderstanding how they figure these estimates. Let me give you a similar example of the same thing with the American Mafia. Take, for instance, Colombo soldier John Staluppi. The guy is a multimillionaire many times over. He owns car dealerships around the country, a yacht company that caters to the filthy rich, etc. Many estimates regarding the income of the Colombo family would take in the complete gross income of all Staluppi's interests. Not just net profit, and not just the money that went into his pocket alone. But also all the money that went to his employees, business partners, etc.

I think some might be underestimating the scale of the Italian Mafia. 80% of businesses in Sicily pay protection money to the Cosa Nostra. Not just small shops but also big construction companies. 60% of those in Calabria and 50% in Campania also pay the "pizzo" to the 'Ndrangheta and Camorra. Recent reports have concluded that combined, Italian businesses pay 250 million euros a day in protection money. This is just extortion alone. When you add up all of the Mafia's other illicit interests like drugs, gambling, loansharking, stolen goods, counterfeiting, illegal waste disposal, arms trafficking, prostitution, fraud, etc.; as well as all of it's legitimate businesses interests in Italy, Europe, and around the world, $167 billion for the four major syndicates is not unreasonable by any means. But like I said above, not all of it is going into the pockets of the mafiosi alone.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by CheGuevara » January 31st, 2009, 3:46 pm

Dude, 250,000,000 Euros a day equals 119bn USD per year. Calm down. You cant possibly believe that.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by Azure9920 » January 31st, 2009, 7:10 pm

CheGuevara wrote:Dude, 250,000,000 Euros a day equals 119bn USD per year. Calm down. You cant possibly believe that.
You believe broken sources that put the Albanians at 100 billion (euros?) per year.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by CheGuevara » January 31st, 2009, 7:36 pm

You believe broken sources that put the Albanians at 100 billion (euros?) per year.
No it was USD and it was only on drug profits. I already explained above that even that seems like an overestimate to me. They talk about the Albanian mafia making 100bn USD on drugs but heroin and cocaine only amount to like $60bn on all levels in Europe. Then you have marijuana which is a drug the Albanian mafia exports alot as well but even counting that and MDMA and everything. I dont know. It still seems like an over estimate. They talk about Ndrangheta making $40bn on drugs but come on. Obviously these are over statements.

Like I said, it all depends on how you make the calculations. If they are loose and flexible when talking about income and businesses and all of that. Maybe. But I doubt the numbers for any mafia can be that high.

And it was not a broken source. It was according to Interpol.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by CheGuevara » February 5th, 2009, 8:17 pm

What is the reason the Italy's mafia syndicates have increased their revenue by 40% last year? What increased? The drug trafficking? Did they not extort 60% of Calabria in 2007 and now they do or what?

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by thewestside » February 5th, 2009, 10:03 pm

CheGuevara wrote:What is the reason the Italy's mafia syndicates have increased their revenue by 40% last year? What increased? The drug trafficking? Did they not extort 60% of Calabria in 2007 and now they do or what?
I'm not sure why the article above said it's revenue was increased by 40%. This estimates from government agencies and think tanks come out every year and there has been a steady climb in the Mafia's profits for years now, but nothing close to a sudden jump of 40%.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by CheGuevara » February 6th, 2009, 10:40 am

thewestside wrote:
CheGuevara wrote:What is the reason the Italy's mafia syndicates have increased their revenue by 40% last year? What increased? The drug trafficking? Did they not extort 60% of Calabria in 2007 and now they do or what?
I'm not sure why the article above said it's revenue was increased by 40%. This estimates from government agencies and think tanks come out every year and there has been a steady climb in the Mafia's profits for years now, but nothing close to a sudden jump of 40%.

It said the following year the annual haul was $90bn Euros. And last year it was $137bn Euros. What caused such a huge increase in the Italian's profits?

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by Lee23Claire » February 7th, 2009, 3:53 am

Is the Casalesi Clan still considered one of/the most powerful single criminal outfit in Italy? Any information on their current hierarchy?

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by thewestside » February 8th, 2009, 3:03 am

Lee23Claire wrote:Is the Casalesi Clan still considered one of/the most powerful single criminal outfit in Italy? Any information on their current hierarchy?
The Casalesi are the most powerful clan in the Camorra, one of the four major Italian syndicates. So they are certainly among the single most powerful groups in Italy. The others would be the Pelle-Nirta-Romeo (San Luca) and Condello-Imerti (Reggio Calabria) clans of the 'Ndrangheta and San Lorenzo and Pagliarelli clans of the Cosa Nostra.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by Lee23Claire » February 8th, 2009, 4:27 am

thewestside wrote:
Lee23Claire wrote:Is the Casalesi Clan still considered one of/the most powerful single criminal outfit in Italy? Any information on their current hierarchy?
The Casalesi are the most powerful clan in the Camorra, one of the four major Italian syndicates. So they are certainly among the single most powerful groups in Italy. The others would be the Pelle-Nirta-Romeo (San Luca) and Condello-Imerti (Reggio Calabria) clans of the 'Ndrangheta and San Lorenzo and Pagliarelli clans of the Cosa Nostra.
I see. So those four outfits are generally equal to each other in terms of power, or is one kinda the cream of the crop?

Any news on who the top mobster in Sicily is these days? I've read a few things about Gianni Nicchi moving up in the underworld. Any truth to that?

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by thewestside » February 9th, 2009, 6:49 pm

Lee23Claire wrote:I see. So those four outfits are generally equal to each other in terms of power, or is one kinda the cream of the crop?
In recent years authorities have been nearly unanimous that the 'Ndangheta is now the most powerful of the Italian syndicates. It's probably debatable who is stronger between the Camorra or Cosa Nostra, though I would say probably the latter. The Sacra Corona Unita is smaller and not as stable or as entrenched as the other groups.
Any news on who the top mobster in Sicily is these days? I've read a few things about Gianni Nicchi moving up in the underworld. Any truth to that?
Matteo Messina Denaro gets a lot of press. He's been wanted for years, going back to the bombings he carried out for the Corleonesi back in the 1990's. Now that Provenzano, Rotolo, and Lo Piccolo are behind bars, he's public enemy #1. But his base is in Trapani, which is removed from the Mafia's main stronghold in Palermo. We'll have to see who emerges in the future.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by DutchGangster69 » February 9th, 2009, 11:16 pm

Royal Dutch Shell owned by the Dutch brings in 380 billion a year...Top that Mafia!!!

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by thewestside » February 9th, 2009, 11:55 pm

DutchGangster69 wrote:Royal Dutch Shell owned by the Dutch brings in 380 billion a year...Top that Mafia!!!
Impressive but Royal Dutch Shell is not even in the top 20 oil and gas companies world wide.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by DutchGangster69 » February 9th, 2009, 11:59 pm

Royal Dutch Shell is only second to american owned Exxon ..Check out Global Fortune 500..Royal Dutch Shell is the 3rd largest company after Exxon and Walmart.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by thewestside » February 10th, 2009, 12:23 am

DutchGangster69 wrote:Royal Dutch Shell is only second to american owned Exxon ..Check out Global Fortune 500..Royal Dutch Shell is the 3rd largest company after Exxon and Walmart.
You're right. The list I was looking at dealt with oil reserves.
http://www.petrostrategies.org/Links/Wo ... _Sites.htm

I assume you are referring to this list below. I can't believe CityGroup has fallen to #17.
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/ ... full_list/

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by Lee23Claire » February 10th, 2009, 1:41 am

thewestside wrote:
Lee23Claire wrote: In recent years authorities have been nearly unanimous that the 'Ndangheta is now the most powerful of the Italian syndicates. It's probably debatable who is stronger between the Camorra or Cosa Nostra, though I would say probably the latter. The Sacra Corona Unita is smaller and not as stable or as entrenched as the other groups.
What is the hierarchical ranks of the 'Ndrangheta? I've never really read what the specific ranks are. Who are the top guys in 'Ndrangheta.

Matteo Messina Denaro gets a lot of press. He's been wanted for years, going back to the bombings he carried out for the Corleonesi back in the 1990's. Now that Provenzano, Rotolo, and Lo Piccolo are behind bars, he's public enemy #1. But his base is in Trapani, which is removed from the Mafia's main stronghold in Palermo. We'll have to see who emerges in the future.
So, his power is relative as far as the news is concerned, but he hasn't secured his position as of yet? Do you think there's any chance of a new Mafia war?

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by thewestside » February 10th, 2009, 2:26 am

Lee23Claire wrote:So, his power is relative as far as the news is concerned, but he hasn't secured his position as of yet? Do you think there's any chance of a new Mafia war?
It's not even clear if Messina Denaro is attempting to become the new "boss of bosses." In the Mafia of today, there really couldn't be one. There is no single group that has defacto control over the entire Mafia like the Corelonesi did. Provenzano was the last that could be considered the boss of bosses. His main subordinates were the two most powerful bosses in Palermo - Antonio Rotolo and Salvatore Lo Piccolo. Messina Denaro, along with Rotolo and Lo Piccolo, were seen in the past as the most likely to succeed Provenzano. Rotolo and Lo Piccolo are in prison now so that leaves Messina Denaro. But like I've said, he is based in Trapani, which is removed from the Mafia's main powerbase in Palermo. He does have substantial contacts, however, with both Italian officials, as well as international connections to the 'Ndrangheta and Colombian cartels for drug trafficking. He reportedly was one of the leaders behind the recent attempt by the Mafia to reestablish the Commission, which has been defunct for years now. That led to a number of arrests a few months ago. In recent years, there have been a few killings, some fairly high level. But I would be surprised if there was ever another war like there was in the 1980's when the Corleonesi took power. The Mafia has learned that wars, as well as killing public officials, only brings heat from law enforcement and the public. One of the things Provenzano was most successful at was getting the Mafia to become more low key and much more in the shadows than it had been previously.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by VostokSila » February 10th, 2009, 3:05 am

Royal Dutch Shell owned by the Dutch brings in 380 billion a year...Top that Mafia!!!
I am sure that a certain percent of the profits go to one or some criminal groups... Russians/Italians/Chinese dont know who else, these are my main assumptions.
I read somewhere about criminals almost owning the dutch shell branch in Russia.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by DutchGangster69 » February 10th, 2009, 11:49 am

The Jews almost own everything in the city I am from...don't know if they are organized crime though..My boss told me they had dirty business practices.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by CheGuevara » February 10th, 2009, 12:20 pm

I dont think Dutch Shell Company should be counted as Dutch OC. In that regard, we can say that the American Mafia is the strongest because most of the bussinesses in America are the biggest in the world.

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