Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

American organized crime groups included traditional groups such as La Cosa Nostra & the Italian Mafia to modern groups such as Black Mafia Family. Discuss the most organized criminal groups in the United States including gangs in Canada.
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This section discusses organized crime groups in the US and Canadian street gangs.
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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by VostokSila » February 10th, 2009, 1:57 pm

dont think Dutch Shell Company should be counted as Dutch OC. In that regard, we can say that the American Mafia is the strongest because most of the bussinesses in America are the biggest in the world.
YOu forget that in America, it is not necesarly that big companies (like the ones in the links) are owned by mafia... its not like in Europe.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by CheGuevara » February 10th, 2009, 2:07 pm

VostokSila wrote:
dont think Dutch Shell Company should be counted as Dutch OC. In that regard, we can say that the American Mafia is the strongest because most of the bussinesses in America are the biggest in the world.
YOu forget that in America, it is not necesarly that big companies (like the ones in the links) are owned by mafia... its not like in Europe.

Dutch Shell Company is not controlled by the mafia. Or is it?

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by DutchGangster69 » February 10th, 2009, 4:16 pm

The Dutch government keeps a close eye on companies like shell so I doubt organized crime has any influence on Shell or any other Big Dutch companies like ING Bank, Philips, etc.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by DutchGangster69 » February 10th, 2009, 4:19 pm

Its mostly small businesses like restaurants and non big chain stores that OC groups operate.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by CheGuevara » February 10th, 2009, 7:16 pm

Maybe some OC groups control some branches of the company that were opened up in Russia or other corrupt places. But I doubt any OC group holds sway over the entire company itself.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by DutchGangster69 » February 10th, 2009, 8:48 pm

Italian Mafia are ripping off there own race

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by Lee23Claire » February 10th, 2009, 9:34 pm

thewestside wrote:
Lee23Claire wrote:So, his power is relative as far as the news is concerned, but he hasn't secured his position as of yet? Do you think there's any chance of a new Mafia war?
It's not even clear if Messina Denaro is attempting to become the new "boss of bosses." In the Mafia of today, there really couldn't be one. There is no single group that has defacto control over the entire Mafia like the Corelonesi did. Provenzano was the last that could be considered the boss of bosses. His main subordinates were the two most powerful bosses in Palermo - Antonio Rotolo and Salvatore Lo Piccolo. Messina Denaro, along with Rotolo and Lo Piccolo, were seen in the past as the most likely to succeed Provenzano. Rotolo and Lo Piccolo are in prison now so that leaves Messina Denaro. But like I've said, he is based in Trapani, which is removed from the Mafia's main powerbase in Palermo. He does have substantial contacts, however, with both Italian officials, as well as international connections to the 'Ndrangheta and Colombian cartels for drug trafficking. He reportedly was one of the leaders behind the recent attempt by the Mafia to reestablish the Commission, which has been defunct for years now. That led to a number of arrests a few months ago. In recent years, there have been a few killings, some fairly high level. But I would be surprised if there was ever another war like there was in the 1980's when the Corleonesi took power. The Mafia has learned that wars, as well as killing public officials, only brings heat from law enforcement and the public. One of the things Provenzano was most successful at was getting the Mafia to become more low key and much more in the shadows than it had been previously.
Ah. What's the status of the Corleonesi today? I've read before that the Corleonesi themselves never had more than ~50 actual members, even at their height. They were just violent/influential enough to gain power over the Mafia. Any truth to that?

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by thewestside » February 11th, 2009, 7:17 pm

DutchGangster69 wrote:Italian Mafia are ripping off there own race
Italians are an ethnic group, not a race. And the Italian Mafia, like all others, preys on it's own people first and foremost.
Lee23Claire wrote:Ah. What's the status of the Corleonesi today? I've read before that the Corleonesi themselves never had more than ~50 actual members, even at their height. They were just violent/influential enough to gain power over the Mafia. Any truth to that?
The DIA estimated that the nucleus of the Corelone clan was 39 members in 1993. Of course they, like most clans in the Sicilian Mafia, had a high number of affiliati (affiliates or associates.) It's also important to remember that not every Mafia member who was a "Corleonesi" was actually a member of the Corleone clan. All the top bosses were of course, like Luciano Leggio, Salvatore Riina, Leoluca Bagarella, Bernardo Provenzano, etc. But there were many others, including bosses of other clans, who were considered "Corleonesi" because they aligned themselves with the Corelone clan when it took over the Sicilian Mafia.

The Corelone clan no longer holds defaco sway over the entire Mafia like it did. Provenzano was the last Coreleone boss that could be considered the "capo di tutti capi" or boss of all bosses. Much of the power has shifted back to Palermo and the Mafia, overall, is more fractured and descentralized now.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by DutchGangster69 » February 11th, 2009, 9:24 pm

The head boss of the Mafia in Canada or atleast Montreal was trying to build a billion dollar bridge in Italy to the sicilian Island so he could collect all the bridge fairs. The Montreal mob has billions. They control the Montreal harbour where all the heroin and cocaine comes in.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by thewestside » February 11th, 2009, 11:58 pm

DutchGangster69 wrote:The head boss of the Mafia in Canada or atleast Montreal was trying to build a billion dollar bridge in Italy to the sicilian Island so he could collect all the bridge fairs. The Montreal mob has billions. They control the Montreal harbour where all the heroin and cocaine comes in.
You're referring to the bridge across the Straight of Messina that would connect Sicily to the mainland. It was a multi-billion dollar project that involved both the Sicilian Mafia and Calabrian 'Ndrangheta from the start. The Rizzutos were one of the Mafia groups seeking to bid on the project.

For the record, Rizzuto is the boss of the Mafia in Montreal, which is the main powerbase of the Sicilian Mafia in Canada. Technically he is a made member of the Bonanno family of New York but his loyalties and family ties go to the Cattolica Eraclea clan in Sicily. While the Calabrian 'Ndrangheta has now become the most powerful Italian syndicate in other parts of the world, the Sicilian Mafia is still the most powerful in Canada and is said by authorities to hold a strong influence over the 'Ndrangheta there.

The Rizzutos are at the top of the drug chain in the region. It was they who reportedly formed "The Consortium," a group of Italian Mafia bosses, the leaders of the Hells Angels, Russian mob leaders, the heads of Irish mob known as the West End Mob, as well as the Colombians, to work out territories for drug distribution, fix the price of drugs, and arbitrate disputes between rival gangs.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by CheGuevara » February 13th, 2009, 5:59 pm

I think some might be underestimating the scale of the Italian Mafia. 80% of businesses in Sicily pay protection money to the Cosa Nostra. Not just small shops but also big construction companies. 60% of those in Calabria and 50% in Campania also pay the "pizzo" to the 'Ndrangheta and Camorra. Recent reports have concluded that combined, Italian businesses pay 250 million euros a day in protection money. This is just extortion alone. When you add up all of the Mafia's other illicit interests like drugs, gambling, loansharking, stolen goods, counterfeiting, illegal waste disposal, arms trafficking, prostitution, fraud, etc.; as well as all of it's legitimate businesses interests in Italy, Europe, and around the world, $167 billion for the four major syndicates is not unreasonable by any means. But like I said above, not all of it is going into the pockets of the mafiosi alone.

Okay, let me prove that you are just as fast to use a souce if you like it as I am. Let me show you how you're source is dead wrong and just totally 100% completely ridiculous but you use it as a fact... whats more, you use it to say, "SEE SEE! I TOLD YOU ITALIAN MAFIA WAS STRONGER THEN EVERYONE!"

Extortion: As of 2007, the workforce in Italy is 23,350,000 people and that is being generous. Now lets say that all of those people make $30,000 per year which I think is very generous for Italy but just for the comparison. Lets say they each make $30,000. 23,350,000 people making $30,000 per year = $700,500,000,000. Now let us divide this number by 10%. That amounts to $70,000,000,000. So for the Italian mafia to make $70,000,000,000 they have to extort 10% of the entire Italian workforce population. That means that every single worker in Italy is paying 10% of his earnings to the mafia. Even, if we lived in Kansas and such a crazy, ridiculous thing could happen, it would only amount to $70,000,000,000. But you're source is claiming they make $118,000,000,000 just on extortion alone.

http://bonoboathome.blogspot.com/2008/0 ... italy.html.

Drug trafficking: You're source claimed they made $59bn just on drug trafficking. Now lets review the facts. The United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime reported that in the year 2006, 568 tonnes of cocaine was produced that was not seized and was potentially consumed in the year 2006. Now for the sake of comparison, lets do the math quite again. 568,000 kilos of cocaine X $100,000 [hypothetical, imaginary retail price of kilo] = $56,800,000,000. In the same year, an estimated 464 tonnes of heroin was available for consumption. Now lets say 464,000 kilos of heroin X $119,500 [average between American and European retail prices] = $55,448,000,000. In total at about $110,000,000,000 for the global profits of the heroin and cocaine trade. So this source is claiming the Italian mafia responsible for 50% of the heroin and cocaine trade in the entire world. Nice to hear this source is reliable.

http://www.unodc.org/documents/wdr/WDR_ ... market.pdf
http://www.unodc.org/documents/wdr/WDR_ ... market.pdf


Arms trafficking: You're source claimed they made $7.48bn USD on arms trafficking alone. That would mean they sold 12,466,666 Kalashnikovs in a single year or in other words, enough Kalashnikovs to arm the entire population of the greater London area.

http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/files/sa ... ary_en.pdf


Conclusion: If we were to take the entire profits of GLOBAL heroin and cocaine trade, we would amount to $111,000,000,000 USD. If we were to tax every single worker in Italy by 10%, it would amount to $70,000,000,000 [AND THAT IS BEING EXTREMELY GENEROUS]. Together they would make $181,000,000,000 or just under $10,000,000,000 of what the Italian mafia makes.

See you later thewestside, you have proven to be a worthy opponent but its time someone exposed you.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by DutchGangster69 » February 13th, 2009, 6:07 pm

For once CHE makes a good argument.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by CheGuevara » February 13th, 2009, 6:13 pm

DutchGangster69 wrote:For once CHE makes a good argument.

I always make a good point Dutch. My claims can always be proven by logic or by official sources. And when I am wrong, I will admit it if anyone has the evidence to prove me wrong. Thewestside lacks that evidence and in this case. He is exposed of believing a totally crazy source. Which should show everyone on this forum just what his "15 years of research" really means.


I hope you read my entire post Dutch. Anyone who reads it will agree.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by DutchGangster69 » February 13th, 2009, 6:18 pm


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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by DutchGangster69 » February 13th, 2009, 6:25 pm

don't forget a drugdealer can get a couple million out of a few kilos of high purity cocaine by watering it down alot.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by CheGuevara » February 13th, 2009, 8:31 pm

By doing the calculations, the Italian mafia makes $3,835,390,000 on their cocaine importation and wholesale activities... How did I come to this conclusion? I will explain. According to the United Nations Office of Drugs and Crime as of 2005. The cocaine market in Europe was worth $18.1bn. The Italians are responsible for 80% of cocaine importation into the continent. According to the same source, the wholesale level is worth 21.1% of the entire market for drugs. So what I simply did was found out what 21.1% of the entire cocaine market in Europe was worth. And it amounted to that.

http://streetgangs.com/billboard/viewto ... 91&t=40439

Now that does not mean that is the total revenues of the Italian mafia in drugs as they are active in other drugs and sometimes, are on the retail level as well. But that should be a good estimation of their cocaine importation profit.

By doing the same calculations, the Albanian mafia is making $7,840,300,000 annually on their heroin importation and wholesale level being as they are estimated to bring in about 80% of the heroin destined for Europe.

(this are the estimates for 2005).

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by thewestside » February 14th, 2009, 1:44 am

DutchGangster69 wrote:For once CHE makes a good argument.
Actually he doesn't and I'll explain why.

First, the figure of extortion cited by the two reports, as anyone can see who has read them, came from all types of extortion. Not simply the classic extortion of the Mafia shaking down a business. It also came in the form of "exortionate collection of interest," i.e. loansharking - one of the mob's biggest businesses. There are also various other types of extortion, ranging from labor racketeering, business racketeering, extortion through kidnapping, extortion through blackmail, etc.

Second, Johnny is trying to use the United Nations 2005 Drug Report (which I provided by the way some time ago) and plug it into these latest reports. But it doesn't work that way. But it is a good example of Johnny's elementary approach to organized crime figures. He sees the UN estimates for the heroin trade in Europe, knows the Albanians control about 80% of that, and simply figures 80% of the UN figure as the amount the Albanians are making. Once again it doesn't work like that.

Read back earlier in this thread. These estimates come out from two, sometimes three separate, think-tanks that use official data every year. Every year the Mafia's income has been steadily growing. The 40% jump cited in some articles is due to the fact that they are comparing the estimated income last year from one source to the estimated income of two years ago from another source. But in any event, notice what Johnny did. His response was simply "Well I think that's too high" and then gave his own figure for what he thought the Mafia's income was. Where did he get this figure? Out of thin air as usual. He constantly makes up his own numbers, and crunches them in ways that don't apply as you can see above, to come out with whatever result that he wants.

In short, the kid has but the slimmest grasp on organized crime and understands nothing about the economics of it.

[quote=""CheGuevara"]I always make a good point Dutch. My claims can always be proven by logic or by official sources.[/quote]

Sorry pal, you may think you can pull the wool over the eyes of Dutch because he's new here but he'll see soon enough there is a reason why you have the reputation you do. You always make good points? Then why are you known as the biggest bullshitter on this forum? Why does nobody take you seriously? Logic? You mean like your asinine logic above that made no sense whatsoever? Official sources? Yeah, ones that you've cherrypicked because they happen to agree with you.
And when I am wrong, I will admit it if anyone has the evidence to prove me wrong. Thewestside lacks that evidence and in this case. He is exposed of believing a totally crazy source. Which should show everyone on this forum just what his "15 years of research" really means.
When you're wrong you'll admit it? One of the biggest lies you've told yet. Anyone who's been here for any length of time knows that you almost never admit when you are wrong, which is quite frequently. It's like pulling teeth to get you to admit when you are wrong. I could list a half dozen examples from just the past few weeks where you never admitted where you were wrong.

A crazy source? Hmmm....let's see here. SOS Impressa, a respected Italian think-tank that uses official sources. Eurispes, another respected Italian think-tank that also uses official sources. And Confesercenti, the small business association of Italy. We're just supposed to dismiss what they say because Johnny (and his voodoo numbers) don't agree?
I hope you read my entire post Dutch. Anyone who reads it will agree.
Who Johnny? Who agrees with you on this board? Name a single poster that has EVER agreed with you?

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by thewestside » February 14th, 2009, 1:54 am

Also allow me to point out a few things about the UN Report, which once again I provided simply as a general reference source, and which Johnny is so fond of citing even though he knows nothing about it.

The UN is dependent upon self-reporting by member states. In some cases, seizure data and flow estimates are pretty well-developed, other times reporting states have very little capacity or inclination to report on the circumstances in their territory. With every illicit commodity, there is never perfect data available. You have to extrapolate from best available evidence. Officials can do a pretty good job at estimating amounts of drug crops produced in the ground, as they can be seen from the air growing, as well as ground surveys in some cases. Officials have a decent chance at estimating finished drug production from this (differences in processing methods can create decent significant discrepancies, however). But they have a less accurate estimate of how much of the total crop transits particular countries; seizure data is all they can go on, and it is notoriously fickle. Some states catch more than others because of more effort, better results; does that mean that more drugs are going through in sum? Not necessarily. Then, there are signfiicant discrepancies in street-price, and in middle-man fees through the retail and wholesale brokers. You get the picture; in some cases, it's a crap shoot. But the UN does the best they can.

In short, the UN figures are at best a general guideline and shouldn't be taken over what official sources in Italy estimate is the income of the Italian Mafia when the subject of the study - and the discussion here - is not the UN's estimate of the overall drug trade in Europe, but the income of the Italian Mafia! But that's exactly what Johnny is trying to do because A) He doesn't like the fact that the Albanians are not making the most money and B) he tries every chance he gets to discredit me but ALWAYS ends up failing.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by CheGuevara » February 14th, 2009, 10:27 am

Did you even bother to read what I said? CAREFULLY????? Or did you just skim through it real quick and answered to what you wanted.

Also, there have never been any estimations of the Albanian mafia's profits except for that interpol estimate that said they went from $38bn in 1999 to $70bn in 2001 just on drug trafficking alone. But I do not believe that estimate as IT IS TOOOOOOOOO HIGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! I have no reason to believe the Albanian mafia does not equal to more, the same or a little less then the Italian mafia in annual profits. They are the most dominate group in a continent of 600,000,000 people. They put up serious numbers.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by thewestside » February 14th, 2009, 11:03 am

CheGuevara wrote:Did you even bother to read what I said? CAREFULLY????? Or did you just skim through it real quick and answered to what you wanted.

Also, there have never been any estimations of the Albanian mafia's profits except for that interpol estimate that said they went from $38bn in 1999 to $70bn in 2001 just on drug trafficking alone. But I do not believe that estimate as IT IS TOOOOOOOOO HIGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! I have no reason to believe the Albanian mafia does not equal to more, the same or a little less then the Italian mafia in annual profits. They are the most dominate group in a continent of 600,000,000 people. They put up serious numbers.
Yes, I read your little "computations" and as usual they made no sense because you were simply trying to compare apples to oranges.

I agree there are no estimations of Albanian profits like these ones for Italian OC, so it's hard to compare.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by CheGuevara » February 14th, 2009, 11:24 am

Yes, I read your little "computations" and as usual they made no sense because you were simply trying to compare apples to oranges.
How so? I went through alot of trouble to calculate that. I found out the workforce of Italy. I gave them each a pretty generous annual wage of $30,000. 10% of the entire workforce's profits would equal to $70bn. But you're source is claiming they made $118bn just on extortion alone. Come on now. You know that is just madness.

Second, you're source said they made $59bn on drug trafficking. But that would account for like 20% of the entire GLOBAL drug market. You have to be realistic. This source in my eyes does not know what the hell it is that they are talking about. $171bn anually, where would they put all of that money? They could have bought Italy by now completely. This is source is almost as crazy as Vostok's source saying the Russians invest $20bn annually into Germany.
I agree there are no estimations of Albanian profits like these ones for Italian OC, so it's hard to compare.
I also agree.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by thewestside » February 14th, 2009, 11:34 am

CheGuevara wrote:How so? I went through alot of trouble to calculate that. I found out the workforce of Italy. I gave them each a pretty generous annual wage of $30,000. 10% of the entire workforce's profits would equal to $70bn. But you're source is claiming they made $118bn just on extortion alone. Come on now. You know that is just madness.
You obviously didn't bother to read my response above. I said that the extortion estimates came from all types of extortion - not just shaking down businesses. It also included loansharking, extortion involved in labor and business racketeering, extortion by kidnapping and ransom, extortion by blackmail, etc. Of course your "calculations" don't add up because you are looking at it all wrong in the first place.
Second, you're source said they made $59bn on drug trafficking. But that would account for like 20% of the entire GLOBAL drug market. You have to be realistic. This source in my eyes does not know what the hell it is that they are talking about. $171bn anually, where would they put all of that money? They could have bought Italy by now completely. This is source is almost as crazy as Vostok's source saying the Russians invest $20bn annually into Germany.
Once again, you didn't bother to read what I wrote above. In any event, I won't just dismiss these sources because Johnny doesn't agree with them.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by CheGuevara » February 14th, 2009, 11:56 am

You obviously didn't bother to read my response above. I said that the extortion estimates came from all types of extortion - not just shaking down businesses. It also included loansharking, extortion involved in labor and business racketeering, extortion by kidnapping and ransom, extortion by blackmail, etc. Of course your "calculations" don't add up because you are looking at it all wrong in the first place.
I read you're calculations very but what I am saying 10% of the entire workforce's annual income amounts to $70,000,000,000. $700,000,000,000 is what is circulating in Italy annually based on the income people receive from work. How do the Italian mafia groups manage to consume $118bn of it? Come on man, you know that is anarchy.
Once again, you didn't bother to read what I wrote above. In any event, I won't just dismiss these sources because Johnny doesn't agree with them.
Once again, I have read you're response thoroughly but the Italian mafia making $59bn on drug trafficking means they are making like 20% of the total drug profits in the world. That is insane and totally untrue.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by Lee23Claire » February 14th, 2009, 7:52 pm

Does anyone else think it's really funny to see Che try so hard, but fail so miserably? I'd actually be more entertaining than annoying if he wasn't so intent on "proving" that AOC was the greatest organization to ever exist in the history of the universe.

Anywho, westside:

I finished reading "Gomorrah" a few days ago, and from what I remember Saviano lays out the Di Lauro clan's hierarchy as -- at the time -- Paolo Di Lauro as the top boss, Cosimo as his second-in-command, and below him his underbosses. Below those underbosses were capo in varying levels of power/responsibility. I think he said they were organized in tiers. Is this how most Camorra clans are made-up, with variations here and there, or would this be distinctive of only the the Di Lauro clan?

Speaking of them, is the Di Lauro family still in control of that clan, or has another family/faction taken the reigns?

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by CheGuevara » February 14th, 2009, 8:09 pm

I am not trying to prove that AOC is the greatest in history. I am just trying to prove how this source claiming the Italian mafia made $171bn in 2008 is madness. It can not happen, it will not happen. Organized crime in total is estimated to be worth about $1,000,000,000,0000 globally. So the Italians account for 17.1% of the entire profits of organized crime? I dont think so. You have to be real man. Look at my above posts. I did the calculations very carefully, take a look at them and I know you will agree if you read it thoroughly.

The numbers have to be real. I am not trying to prove anything except for the fact that thewestside boosts and brags about a source that has been proven to be wrong while I have three official sources claiming the same thing but thewestside does not acknowledge or care about them.

How can he do that? Ask yourself. How can thewestside throw away official statements from the United Nations Office of Drugs and Crime, United States Department of Justice, and Belgian Police Department but rely on some crazy source saying the Italian syndicates made $171bn annually.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by Lee23Claire » February 14th, 2009, 8:16 pm

CheGuevara wrote:I am not trying to prove that AOC is the greatest in history. I am just trying to prove how this source claiming the Italian mafia made $171bn in 2008 is madness. It can not happen, it will not happen. Organized crime in total is estimated to be worth about $1,000,000,000,0000 globally. So the Italians account for 17.1% of the entire profits of organized crime? I dont think so. You have to be real man. Look at my above posts. I did the calculations very carefully, take a look at them and I know you will agree if you read it thoroughly.

The numbers have to be real. I am not trying to prove anything except for the fact that thewestside boosts and brags about a source that has been proven to be wrong while I have three official sources claiming the same thing but thewestside does not acknowledge or care about them.

How can he do that? Ask yourself. How can thewestside throw away official statements from the United Nations Office of Drugs and Crime, United States Department of Justice, and Belgian Police Department but rely on some crazy source saying the Italian syndicates made $171bn annually.
I take it you missed the part where your numbers came from statistics that were compiled 2-4 (probably more) years ago?

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by CheGuevara » February 14th, 2009, 8:22 pm

I take it you missed the part where your numbers came from statistics that were compiled 2-4 (probably more) years ago?
I quoted very visibly that the Global drug reports was from 2005. But I also used data from the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime Annual Global Drug Report that came out in 2008.

Also, the data I used for the extortion number was from the latest data available. If you read my post very carefully. You will have no choice but to agree as it is a functional and normal calculation. It cannot be proven wrong.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by thewestside » February 15th, 2009, 1:12 am

Lee23Claire wrote:Does anyone else think it's really funny to see Che try so hard, but fail so miserably? I'd actually be more entertaining than annoying if he wasn't so intent on "proving" that AOC was the greatest organization to ever exist in the history of the universe.
As I've explained before, it all comes down to his ethnic inferiority complex. Which isn't surprising being as he hails from a small, insignificant, almost third-world country in southeast Europe that many people couldn't even find on a map. There isn't much to say about Albania so Johnny brags about it's crime. What's funny is, on one hand he'll say that Albanians have the "mafia gene," have a high level of criminality, and have one of the biggest mafias in the world for such a small population. But on the other hand he'll say Albanians are the "most honorable" people you will ever meet? Just one of his many contradictions.
Anywho, westside:

I finished reading "Gomorrah" a few days ago, and from what I remember Saviano lays out the Di Lauro clan's hierarchy as -- at the time -- Paolo Di Lauro as the top boss, Cosimo as his second-in-command, and below him his underbosses. Below those underbosses were capo in varying levels of power/responsibility. I think he said they were organized in tiers. Is this how most Camorra clans are made-up, with variations here and there, or would this be distinctive of only the the Di Lauro clan?


Generally speaking, the Camorra is less organized and therefore less stable than both the Cosa Nostra and 'Ndrangheta. The clans are much more "porous," to use Saviano's word, as the rules for joining are less restrictive. As such, each clan might vary somewhat differently but the general makeup is what you described above. A boss, as well as a second in command, followed by several lietenants (which could be called underbosses I suppose) who oversee certain specific operations. But these lieutenants could also simply be called soldiers who have supervision over one activity or another. It's more a matter of semantics than anything.
Speaking of them, is the Di Lauro family still in control of that clan, or has another family/faction taken the reigns?
Yeah, it's safe to say they are, despite the arrests in the last few years.
CheGuevara wrote:I am not trying to prove that AOC is the greatest in history.


Sure Johnny. Nevermind the fact that just about every single one of your posts says otherwise.
I am just trying to prove how this source claiming the Italian mafia made $171bn in 2008 is madness. It can not happen, it will not happen. Organized crime in total is estimated to be worth about $1,000,000,000,0000 globally. So the Italians account for 17.1% of the entire profits of organized crime? I dont think so. You have to be real man. Look at my above posts. I did the calculations very carefully, take a look at them and I know you will agree if you read it thoroughly.
That $1 trillion figure for worldwide organized crime is about as "ballpark" as you are going to get. And you're using that as the measuring stick to determine whether the estimates of the Italian OC profits are correct? That is even more ridiculous than your lame calculations above.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by CheGuevara » February 15th, 2009, 10:19 am

As I've explained before, it all comes down to his ethnic inferiority complex. Which isn't surprising being as he hails from a small, insignificant, almost third-world country in southeast Europe that many people couldn't even find on a map. There isn't much to say about Albania so Johnny brags about it's crime. What's funny is, on one hand he'll say that Albanians have the "mafia gene," have a high level of criminality, and have one of the biggest mafias in the world for such a small population. But on the other hand he'll say Albanians are the "most honorable" people you will ever meet? Just one of his many contradictions.
LOL, when there is nothing left. Turn to insults. Anyway I wont even respond to this insult because being Albanian is really the best thing in the world. Whatever you're view on Albanians are, no one cares because you havent amounted to anything in life and no one knows you or cares about you. Hell, you arent even married, you live alone. Albanians are some of the most honorable people in the world. Their history proves it. If you knew anything about Albanian history you would know. Hell, you can even see what they do in you're own country. They are business men. Look at how much real estate they own, look at much many businesses they own.

As for Albania itself, the entire world knows where Albania is, the only people I have come across that do not know where Albania is are Western Americans and Western Canadians meaning Americans and Canadians living in the west side of North America. That is simply because they are ignorant in the first place, hell once an American kid in my class said Afghanistan is a state of America. Even a Chilian kid told me he knows exactly where Albania was, I was surprised really. I wont make fun of anyone as it wont get me anywhere but Americans kids are ignorant and lazy compared to others. In Albania, 25% of the population has a university degree and the number increases ever year as living standards increase. Albania is far from a third world country.
CheGuevara wrote:I am not trying to prove that AOC is the greatest in history.


Sure Johnny. Nevermind the fact that just about every single one of your posts says otherwise.[/quote]

Sure.
That $1 trillion figure for worldwide organized crime is about as "ballpark" as you are going to get. And you're using that as the measuring stick to determine whether the estimates of the Italian OC profits are correct? That is even more ridiculous than your lame calculations above.
The popular belief is that organized crime generates $1 trillion USD annually.

Anyway, did you even bother to see how I got my calculations? My calculations are not lame and cannot really be proven wrong.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by Azure9920 » February 15th, 2009, 10:58 am

That is simply because they are ignorant in the first place


Ironic.
In Albania, 25% of the population has a university degree and the number increases ever year as living standards increase. Albania is far from a third world country.
Even if that # is correct, it still places you about 10-15% behind the United States. If Americans are ignorant, I wonder what that makes Albanians.

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by CheGuevara » February 15th, 2009, 1:46 pm

Azure9920 wrote:
That is simply because they are ignorant in the first place


Ironic.
Not really. Americans lack the knowledge other people in different parts of the world have.
Even if that # is correct, it still places you about 10-15% behind the United States. If Americans are ignorant, I wonder what that makes Albanians.
It doesnt matter. There is alot more going on in Albania then in the United States. What good is a college education in Albania? There is no work, no industries, etc... In America, if you have a college education you can get a good job, in Albania you need to have a college education, learn a different language fluently, travel outside the country and start work there. Its alot harder and sometimes is not even worth the while and work.

Besides, Americans fall behind immigrants in grades and ahead in failure rates. I mean honestly, whats there to be proud of if you are American? Half of you get divorced. You guys have no morals [letting you're daughters date, letting you're wives have guy friends, letting you're wives control the marriage, etc...] and yet somehow you guys hate on immigrants and try to make them feel bad. I mean honestly, what the fcuk is an American? Where do Americans come from? Europe. How do Americans try to put down immigrants when they are immigrants for themselves?

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Re: Italian Mob Revenue Surges to $167 Billion From 2007

Unread post by CheGuevara » February 15th, 2009, 1:47 pm

I also find it funny that a Native American would be trying to defend white Americans. Lol, thats like a Serb defending Albanians.

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