Influential

American organized crime groups included traditional groups such as La Cosa Nostra & the Italian Mafia to modern groups such as Black Mafia Family. Discuss the most organized criminal groups in the United States including gangs in Canada.
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This section discusses organized crime groups in the US and Canadian street gangs.
Elimu
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Influential

Unread postby Elimu » May 4th, 2012, 7:00 pm

The Gambinos and Genovese are considered two of the most power families within La Cosa Nostra yet which one is currently have more strength now compared to their peak days? Also, on a comparable or sizable strength for a small crime family outside of new york and Chicago?

thewestside
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Re: Influential

Unread postby thewestside » May 4th, 2012, 7:52 pm

Elimu wrote:The Gambinos and Genovese are considered two of the most power families within La Cosa Nostra yet which one is currently have more strength now compared to their peak days? Also, on a comparable or sizable strength for a small crime family outside of new york and Chicago?


No family is comparable to how it was at it's peak, whether in New York or elsewhere. Many have become extinct and the ones that remain have all declined to one degree or another.

sticks
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Re: Influential

Unread postby sticks » May 7th, 2012, 3:10 pm

No family is what it once was yes, but the family with the most power has been and imo will always be the west side. Gambinos and luccheses would be runners up, colombos, then bonnanos. Bonnanos dont have any unions at all, they know guys that run unions, but thewy gotta pay just like everyone else. The genovese imo have it all, muscle, money, smarts. In brooklyn the genovese has got just as many guys as any family, same in queens, bronx (more), jersey (more). The gambinos have always been considered the power in queens, but the westside has got just as many made guys, and all over queens and long island to. Gambinos got about 5 crews run out of hb and ozp. These guys deal drugs, rob houses, and generally fuck workin guys over.IN THEIR OWN NEIGHBORHOOD!! im not tryin to say the genovese crews dont, they do. The genovese guys have better discipline, they arent as greedy. A lot of crews try to make anybody who throws there skipper some money early. A lot of crews dont make gangsters they make restaurant owners who talk the part. Guys who are conned into shelling out a grand a week, start working out so they can look scary, and then get brought along. Some skippers do this as a con, they bring along a guy who has a lot of money (earned/inherited/etc) and tell him he should be a part of his crew, then he asks for 40-50k to put on the street, and the skip will give him a point or half a point a week. So the skip pays him for a month, maybe 2- then tells him that he couldnt collect, the guy died, he ran to ac, or even better-tells the guy to go fuck himself. Theres one instance of i know this to happen, the guy was with big andy russo, the guy gave russo like 110-120 grand for his shy, did all the work, got a point a week off the book, while big andy got the other points just for finding customers. The guys made now lol. The westside likes guys with there own biz traditionally, but they gotta be able to earn. A good friend works at a club in LI owned by a madeguy with Joe Ida. This guy would not be a good example of whta that family looks for-hes a bigmouth shit-talkin prick. but boy can he earn, my friend makes 200 a night in tips. He owns the building, he owns a house in great neck, a house in asbury, a condo in broward co. for his parents, owns a boat, a sister-catering company. The guys loaded. My friend is pals with the bouncer who went on the record with this guy. This bouncer collects shy payments for him, then goes around and tells us about it. He never knows the amount of the loans but has told my friend he collects more than 7k a week in interest (not including principle). Calculator ......hold on...at three points thats like 250k. and i doubt its all at three points, probably a lot a 2 or 1.5- anyways i would assume 400-500k on the street. Thats a helluva lot of money.

Im actually suprised this latest sting of the horses crew hasnt got any attention. Have you heard about this one westside? Horses nephew got busted for most union shakedowms. Actually this is what i mean when i say the westside is superior. They are not just taking kickbacks and shaking guys down, they are trying to get into new unions, whats more theyt are behind the formation of new unions. The DC has already swept ny by storm, ive got several friends who are carpenters. The genovese has gotten in to the AC&J, another new union. Brilliant really, why try to take over a union completely hostile to lcn? why not just create your own union with your own guys, your own corrupt over-sight commitee, your own officers. I can see this being a growing trend in the westside, i am going to be suspicious of all these unions popping up around the boroughs now... See only the genovese would do something this large, the lucchese could be involved too, the dinapoli brothers have been in construction since the beginning of time lol. Pretty high up now, i think hes underboss or consiglieri for stevie wonder. A lot of talk about him from a friend of mine who told us that he was not supposed to speak his name on the street or on the phone. Mysterious my ass, i already heard of the guy- but a guy only does that if hes on the lam or hes high up- same thing with barney, though i know no one whos met him firsthand, and probably wont. Hes all my half-assed-connected-cousin wants to talk about. And hes not even on the record with anyone lmao. If he wants to get a message out to the guys on the street, it probably goes through 2 different channels before it even gets to the skippers. IMO its barney--acting boss--messanger/underboss--crews. I mean the internet is one thing but i dont think there would be as much talk about him if he wasnt the boss. I guess we should discredit my cousin as a source though, being a tough guy is like his life and he cant find a fucking crew in the bronx to take him in lol. I once got him a job dealing hands at one of john navarras (madeguy-bonanno) card games. John said hed bring him along if he was well behaved. What happened? He was an awful dealer, he didnt like getting his balls broken and told a connected guy named anthony desimmone to fuck himself, everyone gets pissed and leaves. John chews him out, calls me tells me to pick my cousin up. My cousin calls me tells me hed rather walk. What happens? He gets jumped by ant desimmone and some other guys, they take his wallet and smash his phone. So im up waiting until 2 in the morning for him to come back to the apartment, i call him 10 times-no answer. Finally i call john, and him, me and my older brother Pat go out looking for him. About 4am we find him sitting in front of the OTB parlor, all bloody. I was so, SO pissed, i thought he was at the otb all night blowing all his money, i punched him right in the nose as soon as he stood up hahaaha. I felt bad after he told us what happened, but we laugh about it now. Pat and i went around looking for ant d the next night, but thats a differnt story. God i know how to ramble, when im 90 ill have to right a book, i probably wont stay on subject but....lol.

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Re: Influential

Unread postby thewestside » May 7th, 2012, 3:42 pm

Sort of a hobby of mine, when it comes to reading about the mob, is to keep a history of every mob case from 2000 to the present. So, I'm very aware of the recent indictments involving Conrad Ianniello (who one can only assume is running the Horse's crew) and the Journeyman & Allied Trades and Carpenters locals. It's just the latest example of how the Genovese family continues to have the most clout in the unions, as they always have. As Joe Coffey once said, the Genovese family "more or less invented labor racketeering." And over the years they've been the hardest family to remove from them. As the 2004 New Jersey OC Report stated, "The Genovese family has a proven record of resiliency that has enabled it to maintain a grip on lucrative segments of the legitimate economy despite repeated assualts by law enforcement." When you boil it all down, there's really three main things that makes the Genovese the top family - 1) they are the most secretive and best organized. 2) they have the most labor racketeering activity left. 3) they control the largest bookmaking and loansharking rings in the NY/NJ area. The Gambinos would be the #2 family over all. In my opinion, it's pretty much been that way since forever. Except for maybe when the Gambinos rivaled the Genovese in the 60's, 70's, and 80's and you could call them #1 and #1A.

The three smaller NY families have changed places more often. Before the FBI started going after the Bonannos again, and the domino effect of rats happened, the Bonannos were the #3 family, ahead of the Luccheses or Colombos. But since then, it seems the Luccheses have stabilized to a degree. Like you said, the Bonannos don't really have any union interests. They are very much into the traditional rackets. But there's a lot of people over on the Real Deal who seem to think the Colombos are the weakest. There's a running joke over there that the Colombo family is a "sinking ship." In my opinion, there isn't really a wide gap between any of the three smaller NY families. The Colombos still have some union involvement, while the Bonannos don't, but the Colombos are easily the most geographically limited of the families. I find myself having to remind people that even the smallest NY family is much larger, and will be around long after, any remaining family outside NY.

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Re: Influential

Unread postby thewestside » May 7th, 2012, 4:02 pm

By the way sticks, a big reason I have been pushing for you to come over to the Real Deal is that you're what we call a "local neighborhood guy." You live in the area, know certain people, so you can provide a certain firsthand insight. We have some other guys like that too over on the other board and you'll probably have a lot to talk about. Hell, maybe you even know some of them or know some of the same people.

Elimu
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Re: Influential

Unread postby Elimu » May 8th, 2012, 6:44 pm

Thewestside, you have been very informative on la cosa nostra as an whole but what about other homegrown crime groups that are actives in the states? And if the f.b.i consider the LCN as the largest crime group in America then who is the next two in size? Also, thanks for providing indepth info on organized crime.

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Re: Influential

Unread postby thewestside » May 8th, 2012, 7:12 pm

Elimu wrote:Thewestside, you have been very informative on la cosa nostra as an whole but what about other homegrown crime groups that are actives in the states? And if the f.b.i consider the LCN as the largest crime group in America then who is the next two in size? Also, thanks for providing indepth info on organized crime.


It may be somewhat misleading to say the LCN is the largest crime group in the U.S. But I guess it depends on how you look at it. The LCN in this country as approximately 1,000 total made members. In addition, it's estimated that the remaining 9 or 10 families have anywhere from 2 to 5 associates for each member.

Recent articles have talked about how smaller numbers, as well as a lack of a built in hierarchy, has kept the Russians, Chinese, and Albanians from forming the same large, long-standing organizations the Italians did.

But even if you put aside those groups for the moment, (which the FBI primarily investigates), there are the Mexican drug trafficking networks (which the DEA primarily investigates) across the country that have thousands of people involved. Not to mention street gangs that have thousands more.

So it comes down to if you're looking at them as a single group because they're a single organization or simply because they have the same ethnicity. For example, there is said to be thousands of members of MS-13 across the country. But it's really not a single organization. They may all be under the same MS-13 "flag," and share similar ethnic backgrounds, but it's not like they all have a single boss or are even in contact with each other or working together.

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Re: Influential

Unread postby sticks » September 18th, 2012, 4:23 pm

I gotta disagrre with ya on ur range of associates to made guys pal. Im sure you get the jist ofit but ill try to expand. an "associate" is "with" a made guy. Hes been "claimed". kinda like a dog pissin on a tree. it usually comes down to who claims u first. although, if you are a hot comodity lol-a earner, they might be a sit. then it comes down to whod u earn with first. if you were a kid who was 12 yrs old serving drinks in a club that belonged to a guy, hes got the right to you. in a serious sit down a skip will represent the associate. its better this way.you cant tell a skip hes lying. when a guy gets put on the record the captain needs to hear about it so he can represent the guy if needed. if a guy wants to swap crews or "retire" he needs the ok from the "official" skip. actings can not do this. a respected associate can have his own associates with him...but he needs respect. a made guy will claim everything he feels hes entitled to. if a guy needs a loan, he needs help collecting a loan, he needs a frend at a sit,its always the same "your with me now" bull shit like hes doin you some big favor takin you in so he can bleed the fuck outta yous. they bring around a guy let him start to talk the talk....next thing ya know someones broke, in prison, or on the stand. id say a more accurate estimate would be about ten per guy. at least. theres no set amount or limit lol. its all in the game.


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