It's time for some Common Sense

This is the forum for those who believe that there are other options to gangs and violence and hope to see young people make better choices about their future. Where does change begin?

Moderator: Guest

Guest

It's time for some Common Sense

Unread post by Guest » January 13th, 2004, 5:24 pm

Gang violence to some may be a form of recognition or a sense of family, but sometimes I wonder what is the real reason, why someone would join a gang.

What are the benefits?
A crew, family, protection, respect/being feared, get to claim a section of city owned property. I don’t know, maybe you guys can enlighten me on this.

What are the downsides?
Constant fear of your life, paranoia, no health benefits, no retirement benefits, prison time, felony, which means decreased job opportunity (hell of a way to start life), and possibly death.

So what’s your point?

There is no point. It’s time to wake up and be a real man. Take care of yourself and your kids (if you have any). The real war is not with a teenager you don’t know. The real war is you making it on your own as a man. Living a long life, and enjoying it like everybody else in this world. People are having a good time some where, and getting the most out of their life. Your life should be worth more to you than a what you sell it for. I’m sure the color that you fly is not worth more than $20.00

User avatar
Common Sense
Heavy Weight
Heavy Weight
Posts: 2631
Joined: January 13th, 2004, 3:54 pm
Location: In your MIND and in your HEART.

Re: It's time for some Common Sense

Unread post by Common Sense » January 13th, 2004, 5:41 pm

There is always a choice. I'll give you a few choices right now.

1. If you are not in prison today...then don't do anything dumb tonite.

2. If you don't have any strikes this week, then don't get any next month, you might need to get a job.

3. If you enjoyed the holidays with your family and friends, then be around next year to do it again.

4. Be glad that you are a free man or women, don't give up your liberty so easy.

5. You get what you put out.


C.S.

User avatar
Common Sense
Heavy Weight
Heavy Weight
Posts: 2631
Joined: January 13th, 2004, 3:54 pm
Location: In your MIND and in your HEART.

Re: It's time for some Common Sense

Unread post by Common Sense » January 16th, 2004, 8:04 pm

You know sometimes it just amazes me, how many people fought and died just so young people of color (especially black people) could have basic rights like eat "where the hell you want" and go "where in the hell you want". So you guys (the minority) have basically and willingly given up your civil rights voluntarily, because now your back to "I can't eat anywhere or go anyway".

Maybe the worst thing that ever happened to the black man was gettin' civil rights, because obviously we don't know what to do with our free time or freedom.

What do you want to do tonite?
I don't know.
Let's go bust on somebody.
Yea, let's do that.

Ignorance is bliss.

User avatar
wcrockets
Light Heavy Weight
Light Heavy Weight
Posts: 1580
Joined: June 23rd, 2003, 3:53 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Re: It's time for some Common Sense

Unread post by wcrockets » January 17th, 2004, 1:01 am

You are on the outside looking in. It's no surprise that you don't understand the dynamics and your posts reflect that. Allow me to direct you to an older post of mine that might begin to open an eyelid just a bit:

http://streetgangs.com/billboard/viewto ... ight=#4728

User avatar
Common Sense
Heavy Weight
Heavy Weight
Posts: 2631
Joined: January 13th, 2004, 3:54 pm
Location: In your MIND and in your HEART.

Re: It's time for some Common Sense

Unread post by Common Sense » January 17th, 2004, 10:37 am

first of all, i would like to say thanks for replying. i had assumed that i would be the only one writing on this forum....LOL.

wcrockets: i agree with your post. you make excellent points, but i beleive that we are responsible for our own actions ...in the end. most people do know a general sense of Right from Wrong, regardless of their upbringing. i know my post sounds more on the extreme side. this is an extreme forum and nobody here is sugar coating, including me. my comments is what society is feels at-large.

it's always a tragedy coming from a severe dysfunctional home, and i can sympathize for that. But i can't sympathize for murder, just because somebody didn't like what someone else said or wore that day.

more it's more complex. maybe the person has no choice but to join a gang. i don't know?

it just seems to me that the black community as a whole was alot closer together when we had no civial rights at all.

User avatar
wcrockets
Light Heavy Weight
Light Heavy Weight
Posts: 1580
Joined: June 23rd, 2003, 3:53 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Re: It's time for some Common Sense

Unread post by wcrockets » January 17th, 2004, 12:20 pm

Nobody's arguing with your perspective of conscience, etc... What we are doing is waiting for you to open your eyes and begin to see outside of your "box."

It's going to take awhile because you're so focused in on your own perspective. Go back and reread the entire thread of my post I gave you, all 14 pages of it, and then meditate on that for a week. Then we will talk more. Right now you are just rewinding and repeating your "outside looking in" perspective which most people who lack a real understanding come here with.

Believe me, we've heard it all before. You WILL leave with a better understanding if you open your eyes and ears and take the time to read and think about what we are saying and going to say to you.

User avatar
alexalonso
Founder
Founder
Posts: 8968
Joined: May 12th, 2003, 7:56 pm
Country: United States
If in the United States: California
What city do you live in now?: Los Angeles
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: It's time for some Common Sense

Unread post by alexalonso » January 18th, 2004, 3:03 am

I think that one of the main problems is that most people do not see that the street life is a by-product of other problems that we tend to ignore. We can not just skip over other serious social ills in the community and except the youth to be able to clearly discern the pros and cons of a life style.

It is no coincident that gangs form in certain types of communities, among specific groups of a certain social class. There are exceptions, but there is much consistency among the factors that contribute to gang formation. Let's address those factors first, then maybe we can make progress in the other problems that youths face.

User avatar
Common Sense
Heavy Weight
Heavy Weight
Posts: 2631
Joined: January 13th, 2004, 3:54 pm
Location: In your MIND and in your HEART.

Re: It's time for some Common Sense

Unread post by Common Sense » January 18th, 2004, 11:40 am

alonso wrote:I think that one of the main problems is that most people do not see that the street life is a by-product of other problems that we tend to ignore. We can not just skip over other serious social ills in the community and except the youth to be able to clearly discern the pros and cons of a life style.
I totally agree with the above statement.

I feel that most of these young people are missing their marks in life because no one has told them or trained them what their mark is (e.g. broken home, absent father etc.). In a normal situation, one would get this from their household growing up. The forum being what it is, is not the place for formal therapy or substitute parenting. It can be a place for "this is what other people think about what you are doing on my street". My statements are put here for a quick glance and digestion. Some may get it sooner (hopefully), and others may get it later (hopefully). I feel no one needs to go to death row to learn how to change their life.
I will take a week off before I post again. Take a trip around the forum and explore.

C.S.

Impala
Middle Weight
Middle Weight
Posts: 214
Joined: January 19th, 2004, 2:21 am
Location: L. A. CA.

Re: It's time for some Common Sense

Unread post by Impala » January 21st, 2004, 2:50 am

The shit is deep, it's like a web. There aint no easy answers or band-aid fixes. There 's an old quote that says "we have to be the change we want to see". It starts with us. It starts at home. But when home is so messed up then what? For many it's like a generational curse. It aint like you woke up one morning and said "hey, I think today I'm gonna join a gang." Give me a break! Sometimes your family is the gang, uncles aunts..etc. Baby pics in gang clothes and colors. It's real easy for you common sense to think your little theories and hypothesis but like wcrockets said you really don't know.

It's deep, it's rage, it's hate, even self hate, some folks are emotionally stronger, many aint. Too many know no better nor can they find an out.

There aint no easy answers..it's deep..the pain..in the soul, in the heart.

You want to do something about it common sense? First have compassion then go out and show some kindness, some love; in any way you can. Give someone a job. Visit the kids in juvie. Support a non-profit working with inner city youth, go volunteer at the projects with kids activities, buy some one a pair of sneakers or a jacket. Go to Rancho Los Amigos and help out some of the homies who've been shot and are in phys. therapy. Just go out and listen to a kid.

Then come back...your perspective will be different, then maybe you might have some thing beyond judgement and educated rhetoric to contribute to the mix.

Impala

Cheeks
Middle Weight
Middle Weight
Posts: 110
Joined: December 25th, 2003, 5:20 pm

Re: It's time for some Common Sense

Unread post by Cheeks » January 21st, 2004, 3:23 am

Cousin, you just can't expect to take us out of our hoods with a few words and "Common Sense" as your membership name. We follow this code of thug life because we salute our elder's who passed it onto us. I personally am a gang banger because I choose to. You cannot sway me with some simple words. I of course doubt some bad stuff I do to people, and I sometimes hate it.. But what should I stop for? As long as pain is being inflicted on me, I shall inflict the pain. You may call us stupid, or disgrace our way of life but as I said earlier, you just can't expect to take us out of the hoods. Some people has changed their life and bettered it, and I appreciate that. I also appreciate the fact that you try to change our lives and help people out, and I also salute you and hit the blunt in your honor. But most people simply are down with this until life.

Rest in peace to the fallen soldiers, B.G. Big Crazy hittin out.. One love, cus.

User avatar
Common Sense
Heavy Weight
Heavy Weight
Posts: 2631
Joined: January 13th, 2004, 3:54 pm
Location: In your MIND and in your HEART.

Re: It's time for some Common Sense

Unread post by Common Sense » January 21st, 2004, 5:08 pm

Impala and Cheeks,

Thanks for replying to my post. I will say, you both had some interesting points of view. I'm going to chew on it for a few days and comment on sunday january 25.

User avatar
wcrockets
Light Heavy Weight
Light Heavy Weight
Posts: 1580
Joined: June 23rd, 2003, 3:53 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Re: It's time for some Common Sense

Unread post by wcrockets » January 22nd, 2004, 4:53 pm

Nice to see someone thinking through things. Good for you. *thumbs up* I look forward to your comments. I believe they will have progressed.

User avatar
Common Sense
Heavy Weight
Heavy Weight
Posts: 2631
Joined: January 13th, 2004, 3:54 pm
Location: In your MIND and in your HEART.

Re: It's time for some Common Sense

Unread post by Common Sense » January 28th, 2004, 6:02 pm

Dear Impala,

I agree with you about change starts with the individual and in the home. Sure when home life is crazy and your family is the gang I’m sure it’s tuff to see clearly. Sometimes seeking out a mentor outside of the family can help change perspectives and provide alternatives. There are a lot of groups willing to be a mentor for troubled teens and young adults, such as Mad Dads, Big Brothers and Sisters, Church members, and School coaches to name a few. Help is out there.
Sometimes the hardest thing to do is to take a hard look at our self and admit how much we are playing into our own self destruction and extinction. Sure there are no easy answers, but there is an answer and responsibility. We don’t need the man to keep us down. We do a pretty good job of it ourselves. Growing up in a crazy dysfunctional family unit and lifestyle (e.g. gang), one can become addicted to the craziness and not even know it. Crave it, desire it, and find excuses to have it, just like any other addiction. So I would believe to trying to replace that excitement with something close to it but on a positive end to help with the transition. Just to throw some ideas out there.

As far as my compassion. I’m very passionate about what I’m posting (even though it may be unpopular), and compassionate enough to share my thoughts on this forum. I’ve spoken to plenty of kids in and out of the system. I’ve done more than my share with the homies in the wheelchairs. I can tell you all about life without the use of your limbs and it’s life long complications. Hopefully, not another person unnecessarily should lose there voluntary movement of there legs over gang violence. Sure my opinions are judgmental, but not rhetorical. That’s just the way I roll. I will listen to anyone, but I am blatenly honest about what’s the deal on the other side of the fence.


Dear Cousin,
I wouldn’t dare try to take you or anyone else out of the hood with words. Gangsters are taking themselves out of the hood (example: recent event at the gardens). Some of those fellas may be facing a minimum of 10-30 years of donated time to the State of California without pay. I don’t know about you, but I have have other things I would like to do than kick it for a few years with a bunch of fellas. I’m sorry to hear you are having pain inflicted upon you. You deserve to live a pain free life. I don’t think you or anybody else is stupid or disgraceful. Sometimes I may feel it’s just being mis-guided. It happens to the best of us. You asked. Why should you stop bangin’. Man, I could give you one hundred and one reasons, but the man reason would have to be for you. You deserve better. You deserve to get what everyone else is getting and maybe more. I know lot’s of people are down with the “G ” life 4 life, but in most cases, a lot of people just don’t know any better. God bless em’. Thanks for hearing me out.

C.S.

Impala
Middle Weight
Middle Weight
Posts: 214
Joined: January 19th, 2004, 2:21 am
Location: L. A. CA.

Re: It's time for some Common Sense

Unread post by Impala » January 29th, 2004, 2:59 am

Thanx C.S. You spoke from the heart. We all got our devils, but I for one will survive. I went to the cementary just the other day to pay my respects. It was sunny, blue sky, just one of those days that make you glad to be alive. But I wasn't, I was sad and quiet cuz my homeboy Simon was gone. So after I left some flowers, I walked. As I walked I looked down at the graves and about every other one was someone young. I fought the tears but they slowly came. I started feeling really mad, angry cuz we got a real quiet invisible war right here in L. A. that nobody talks about and nobody cares. In Iraq about every day or every other day 2 or 3 guys die by ambush, snipers or road side bombs; here in L. A. every day or every other day 2 or 3 homies somewhere... die. But we aint news, we aint no story. Sorry bro, I just feel real sad right now but it will pass, tommorow is a new day and tommorow will be just fine.

Impala

User avatar
Common Sense
Heavy Weight
Heavy Weight
Posts: 2631
Joined: January 13th, 2004, 3:54 pm
Location: In your MIND and in your HEART.

Re: It's time for some Common Sense

Unread post by Common Sense » January 29th, 2004, 10:02 am

Dear Impapla,

You can always PM me if you feel the need.


C.S.

User avatar
Common Sense
Heavy Weight
Heavy Weight
Posts: 2631
Joined: January 13th, 2004, 3:54 pm
Location: In your MIND and in your HEART.

Re: It's time for some Common Sense

Unread post by Common Sense » February 4th, 2004, 7:35 pm

Options are slowly being posted, thanks wcrockets, Impala, and noog. I’m sure there is more to come. I’ll continue to add to the list as I get new info. You can always send me a PM for specific help and/or questions. I do have resources.

The era of the gangster is going to be taking a dramatic turn for the worst. Unless young people start changing occupations over the next several years, some youngsters might get caught up. Look at the trend my peoples. Starting with construction of Twin Towers to keep mass amounts of fools from gettin’ early outs. Kickin’ Chief Parks to the curb, and hiring a new Chief for top dollar who is extremely down with gangbangin’ on gangbangers. Right now, he’s workin deals with the federal government (FBI, ATF, DEA) to join in on the a$$ kickins so the charges will get doubled and tripled. He’s pushing the U.S. and California governments to straight out use RICO laws (which brought down the mob) on L.A. gangs memebers. He is also pushing deals with the new homeland security to start labeling L.A. gang members as urban terrorist and to start deporting fools out of the country after they get out of jail or prison, if they can’t prove they are a citizen or permanent resident of the united states. Can you imagine getting of the plane in El Salvador and you haven’t been there since you were two years old. Superior court justices giving the o.k. left and right on snatchin’ of individuals civil rights with injunctions and daring fools to step out of line.

So Cal housing market is going sky high to get fools out of the city and bring people back to the city with cash money. Have you noticed pockets all over L.A. is starting to upscale? Have you notice that you can’t buy a house in the slums, the hood or the eastside for less than $250-$300K. Once people sell or lose their home many people can’t afford to move back in the hood. This new era is very serious. As soon as the government is finished puttin’ work on Iraq, Afganistan and a few other terrorist, they are coming for the newly labeled urban terrorist starting in Los Angeles. All of the other states are pointing the finger at Cali for their gang problems.

So remember what I’m sharing with ya’s (the recap)

1.The government is moving to label gangsters as urban terrorist.
2. The government is looking to expedite full time on kickin all illegal gangsters out of the United States permanately.
3. California along with LAPD is looking to start charging gang members with RICO laws and doubling/tripling their prison sentences. A crime that would normally get you 5, would then get you 10-15 years in prison.
4.Cali real estate (esp L.A.) is out the roof. Forcing people with no to littel funds to seek else where to buy a house.
5. The state and the country is moving in ways to a$$ people out (whom they deem is not contributing to society) like they have never seen before.

Don’t wait til it’s to late to find out what’s really going down in downtown.

C.S.

stateraised2000
Middle Weight
Middle Weight
Posts: 658
Joined: July 5th, 2003, 4:34 pm
Location: L.A. county Califas...
Contact:

Re: It's time for some Common Sense

Unread post by stateraised2000 » February 4th, 2004, 7:52 pm

common sense, it's a sad thing but just about everything you're saying is true. and you've just hit the tip of the iceberg. these youngsters just dont realize whats coming there way....

stateraised2000
Middle Weight
Middle Weight
Posts: 658
Joined: July 5th, 2003, 4:34 pm
Location: L.A. county Califas...
Contact:

Re: It's time for some Common Sense

Unread post by stateraised2000 » February 5th, 2004, 3:59 am

""So Cal housing market is going sky high to get fools out of the city and bring people back to the city with cash money. Have you noticed pockets all over L.A. is starting to upscale? Have you notice that you can’t buy a house in the slums, the hood or the eastside for less than $250-$300K. Once people sell or lose their home many people can’t afford to move back in the hood.""

intrestedguy, talking about real estate prices going sky high, a few minutes ago i read this article in the WHITTIER DAILY NEWS. click on the following link, the houses are going to people who are making UNDER the medium range of $45.000 a year but dig this, the houses are going for over $200,000, i tripped on how high the real estate has gotten, guess i did too much time in the pen and didnt pay attention to the life around me.........

click on this link:

http://www.whittierdailynews.com/Storie ... 12,00.html

User avatar
wcrockets
Light Heavy Weight
Light Heavy Weight
Posts: 1580
Joined: June 23rd, 2003, 3:53 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Re: It's time for some Common Sense

Unread post by wcrockets » February 5th, 2004, 1:03 pm

^^ You aren't kidding either!


Housing Prices
Continue to Rise
But New Study Suggests Bubble Mentality
Has Developed in Some of the Hotter Markets
By JAMES R. HAGERTY
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

The latest bulletins from Realtors and home builders sound reassuring: The house party will rage on in 2004.

Cheaper mortgages have helped get the housing market off to a fast start this year. Most forecasts suggest prices will rise substantially again in 2004, albeit at a slightly slower pace than in the past few years. The National Association of Realtors reported Monday that sales of existing homes in December rose a stronger-than-expected 6.9% to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 6.47 million units. The national median home price in December was $173,200, up 6.7% from a year earlier. For the full year, sales hit a record 6.1 million homes.

But the local market can be much different from the national average, and risks remain for people who have bought recently or are thinking of buying in some West Coast and East Coast markets. Price increases have been particularly dizzying there in recent years.

In a paper to be published soon in the Brookings Papers on Economic Activity, house-price gurus Karl E. Case of Wellesley College and Robert J. Shiller of Yale University find that the national measures of market trends can be very misleading. In most of the country, house prices tend to rise gradually, in line with personal income, they find. But California, New Jersey, New York, New England and Hawaii -- all of them short on land for building new homes -- are prone to lurch from booms to busts or periods of stagnation.

The upshot: Buying a house in a popular, land-starved place doesn't necessarily mean you will gain more in percentage terms over the long term. In the 21 years ended in the first quarter of last year, Messrs. Case and Shiller found, prices in Milwaukee more than tripled, about the same as in Los Angeles. The difference was that prices in Milwaukee rose steadily, while Los Angeles rode a roller coaster.

Now much of California is on another wild ride. Median single-family home prices in the San Diego area have surged 60% over the past three years, according to Fidelity National Financial Inc.

Vanessa Bachman, a paralegal, calls that number "terrifying." Even so, she and her husband, Richard, a radio-station promotions director, have just agreed to buy their first home, a $200,000 condominium, in the San Diego suburbs. "We kept waiting for [prices] to go down," Ms. Bachman says. "We finally decided to go for it."

Traditionally, falling prices have been the exception. The more common pattern is that a period of frenzied price rises in a city or neighborhood is followed by years of flat prices; buyers lower their offers, but most sellers hold out, waiting for better times rather than selling at a loss.

But even a leveling off can be painful for people who have stretched their finances to the limit and are counting on a quick killing in real estate to produce college or retirement funds, says Mike Sklarz, chief valuation officer at Fidelity National Financial Inc.

Nationally, the decline in interest rates has made housing more affordable for most people in recent years, even though house prices have risen. But Fidelity National's affordability index for some cities is worrisome. The index shows that the typical consumer in Miami can afford only 83% of the city's median house price. The readings are even scarier in Los Angeles (68%), San Diego (65%) and San Francisco (63%). Those numbers suggest that lots of people are getting priced out of the market, which eventually should help restrain prices.

Few housing pundits see much risk of a national plunge in house prices. Indeed, according to David Lereah, chief economist for the National Association of Realtors, there has never been an annual decline in the national median price in the past four decades. Even in the recession of the late 1980s, he says, prices edged up slightly.

January is likely to be another busy month because the recent drop in interest rates allows people to buy more house for the same monthly payment. The average 30-year fixed mortgage rate stood at 5.64% last week, the lowest since last July and down from 8.3% four years ago.

"It's very hard to concoct a scenario where housing is going to fall out of bed anytime soon," says Mr. Lereah. Demand for housing generally exceeds supply, he says. The recent numbers have been so strong that he is considering an upward revision in his forecast that the median house price will rise 4.6% this year and that sales of existing homes will total 5.8 million.

Home builders, returning from their annual show in Las Vegas last week, also are whooping it up. The National Association of Home Builders predicts that housing starts this year will be almost as strong as last year's record pace, despite earlier talk of a slowdown.

On a local level, though, prices do sometimes fall. For instance, data from Fiserv CSW Inc. show that prices in Los Angeles dropped about 29% from 1990 to early 1996. (Adjusted for inflation, the drop was 40%.) San Francisco had a decline of 14% in the early 1990s, and Boston slumped 16%. More recently, some Bay Area cities, such as Saratoga and Cupertino, have suffered steep drops, according to data from Mr. Sklarz.

Coe Lewis, an agent at Century 21 Award who represents the Bachmans of San Diego, says some people worry too much about prices. "They get paralyzed," Ms. Lewis says. "They almost overthink the process. They think there's got to be a dip. There's not going to be a dip. I'm not afraid at all of a bubble in Southern California."

Messrs. Case and Shiller, however, see signs that a bubble mentality has developed in some of the hotter markets. Last year they surveyed 700 people who had recently bought homes. The survey found that many of these people had very high -- and probably unrealistic -- expectations of how much home prices would keep rising. On average, respondents in the San Francisco area thought prices would rise nearly 16% a year over the coming decade.

Another sign of self-delusion: Some people surveyed thought prices in places like San Francisco and Boston should continue to rise faster than those elsewhere because they are such attractive places to live and there is little space for new housing. Those factors do explain why home prices in those cities are relatively high, the authors note, but they don't mean that prices should keep on rising at a faster rate.

Alas, write Messrs. Case and Shiller, "the single-family home market is a market of amateurs, generally with no economic training."



Updated January 27, 2004

Danger Zones
These are the 20 metropolitan areas that have had the biggest run-ups in median single-family home prices during the past three years. That could make them more vulnerable to stagnant or even declining prices.

AREA 3Q 2003 (in thousands) - CHANGE FROM 3 YEARS AGO:

West Palm Beach-Boca Raton, Fla.
$245.73 76.90%
Providence-Warwick-Pawtucket, R.I.
234.97 73.5
Nassau-Suffolk, N.Y.
370.73 72.9
Sacramento, Calif.
248.04 68.7
Monmouth-Ocean, N.J.
291.64 68.7
Bakersfield, Calif.
186.31 64.5
Riverside-San Bernardino, Calif.
226.9 64.5
Los Angeles-Long Beach, Calif.
361.54 64.3
Redding, Calif.
292.99 63.7

User avatar
Common Sense
Heavy Weight
Heavy Weight
Posts: 2631
Joined: January 13th, 2004, 3:54 pm
Location: In your MIND and in your HEART.

Homeland Security Imigration Customs Enforcement aka ICE

Unread post by Common Sense » February 7th, 2004, 11:50 pm

These are the new Federal Law Enforcement Officers whose sole mission is to start kickin' fools permantly out of the United states. Illegal immigrant gang bangers...you need to watch out for this crew. So far they have kicked out 60,000 people out of the United States.


September 23, 2003

11 Foreign-Born Gang Members Arrested
in Chicago’s Northwest Suburbs

CHICAGO –Federal agents and local law enforcement officers fanned out across the northwest suburban communities of Arlington Heights, Mt. Prospect and Rolling Meadows, arresting 11 known street gang members Sept. 18 and 19. The law enforcement officers, executing search warrants and led by agents from U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), focused on illegal aliens with ties to several local street gangs.

The operation’s targets were members of two known criminal street gangs, most of whom had illegally entered the U.S. from Mexico.

“We are partnering with law enforcement agencies at all levels and using ICE’s unique authorities to make our communities safer,” said Chicago ICE Interim Special Agent-in-Charge Elissa A. Brown. “Immigration law is one of the many tools we are using to disrupt criminal activity and dismantle violent organizations, such as these area street gangs.”

All of those arrested are Mexican nationals and are currently in ICE custody being processed for removal from the United States.

“We are grateful to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement for assisting the Police Department in safeguarding our neighborhoods and reducing the fear of crime for the citizens of Rolling Meadows,” said Deputy Chief Joe Catalano of the Rolling Meadows Police Department.

Commander Bob Rzepecki, Mount Prospect Police Department, had this to say of the arrests: “The gang members targeted by ICE have a definite impact on the quality of life for the rest of the citizens who live in our neighborhoods. Removing these gang members will only improve these areas and enable local law enforcement to strive towards permanently eliminating their drug and gang problems.”

“The Arlington Heights Police Department has a long-standing and close working relationship with our Mount Prospect and Rolling Meadows counterparts,” added Commander Jerry Lambert of the Arlington Heights Police Department. “The joint efforts of these and other area jurisdictions have done a great deal to successfully hinder gang activity in the northwest suburbs. When approached, we enthusiastically accepted the offer to join ICE agents in furtherance of these inroads to street-gang eradication. This federal agency’s power to remove local gang leaders from our communities is an invaluable tool.”

Since the year 2000, ICE agents on Chicago’s Violent Gang Task Force have arrested more than 200 known gang members in the communities of Elgin, Aurora, and West Chicago. ICE agents also encounter gang members at jails and prisons during routine checks on the foreign-born criminal population.

ICE is now deep in Los Angeles.

Noog
Light Heavy Weight
Light Heavy Weight
Posts: 1353
Joined: December 12th, 2003, 9:21 am
Location: East London Uk

Re: It's time for some Common Sense

Unread post by Noog » February 11th, 2004, 10:42 am

All of this makes interesting reading - the gentrification of the ghetto, pricing people out. But where will people go, what will the future look like?
But even more concerningly is the idea that the US government will call gang members terrorists, under legislation brought about by the so-called post 9/11 'war on terror' (stands for TWAT, an explicit British swear word, same meening as pussy!). What can be galvanised in young people to help gang members appreciate that dark days are coming, that things will change. I mean, change is so necessary, but the change toward social justice and people having what they need to thrive. The changes mentioned by Common Sense however....can only compound a bleak situation and if anything, drive gang life further underground and clandestine.... and the jails will fill up to overflowing with young people sent down for crazy sentances as terrorists...

Noog
Light Heavy Weight
Light Heavy Weight
Posts: 1353
Joined: December 12th, 2003, 9:21 am
Location: East London Uk

Re: It's time for some Common Sense

Unread post by Noog » February 11th, 2004, 10:54 am

Another thing...those thousands of immigrants who have been deported back to their countries of origin....back to El Salvador, Mexico, Guatamala etc. Those countries were ravaged in the 1980's by right wing administrations who waged civil war on their own people, their own poor. As we know, thousands were murdered or 'dissappeared' by death squads or the army. Regan's administration supported those regimes and colluded in the murder of Union activists, human rights workers, church people, any person with left leaning politics and revolutionaries. Those countries, especially El Salvador, Guatamala and Hondurous suffered so much. Now, the US government is deporting young people, children of the poor who were devastated during Regan's administration, back to those countries. And what did those young people take back with them? These children who came form a traumatic past? Well, gang life was exported to those countries. Mara 18 and 18th Street are active in ElSalvador, for example - even in the countryside - they are experiencing an epidemic of murder, the young killing the young, on a scale not seen in LA or Chicago. My view is that the American government is culpable for the exportation of gang life to third world countries, which had had their infra structures destroyed abd left traumatised by the military regimes of the eighties and the collusion of Regan......There are non so blind as will not see......

Lisseth
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 10
Joined: February 7th, 2004, 1:42 pm

Re: It's time for some Common Sense

Unread post by Lisseth » February 12th, 2004, 1:02 pm

Well, when you think of what happened in the 80s with the Central American countries (namely El Salvador), it was kind of expected. By no means do I intend to say that it is justified: I think it's atrocious that these poor, hard-working people ate up everything the Reagan Administration fed them only to end up in the periphery....again. They come from a place in the world considered the periphery of the periphery. The Reagan Administration gave amnesty in the early eighties only to have right-wing sympathizers once they were here. I see it every day. If only there was a way to tell these people that the Reagan they loved so much was contributing a daily amount of US$1 MILLION to these wars, supporting their military regimes. If you look at the United Nations Truth Commission on El Salvador's Report, you will see that 95% of civilian deaths were at the hands of the government, not the guerrilla as they tried to prove.

Now, these people who came here to live the American Dream, to give their children all they didn't have, live in the worst conditions, work in unsanitary environments and are the ones that, although are the biggest contributors to the economy, are viewed as society's parasites.

It's as if they send the worst of the bunch back so that the society they take over can implode and they're the only ones to blame.....

User avatar
Common Sense
Heavy Weight
Heavy Weight
Posts: 2631
Joined: January 13th, 2004, 3:54 pm
Location: In your MIND and in your HEART.

Re: It's time for some Common Sense

Unread post by Common Sense » February 12th, 2004, 3:10 pm

Lisseth wrote: Now, these people who came here to live the American Dream, to give their children all they didn't have, live in the worst conditions, work in unsanitary environments and are the ones that, although are the biggest contributors to the economy, are viewed as society's parasites.
I'm going to comment on the first sentence of this statement. I was gonna get around to it sooner or later.

Bringing this back to a local social problem. People come the the U.S. to get opportunity that couldn't get from their country of origin. Opportunity to earn a living, to raise a family, to be able to offer opportunites to their children they would not be able to get if they would have stayed.

The biggest slap in the face is when there children and future generations of family members join gangs. These are the individuals who don't get the big picture of why or how there family even got to the U.S. Nobody risk there life and sometimes pay heavy fees to come to this country just to have their kid or family members murdered. I've been around the block in the world, and it's amazing how many people in america (esp. 2nd/3rd generation gang members) really take for granite. We have our problems here, but it is not like the problems of most of the world.
So my question to a 2nd/3rd/4th generation American who is in a gang.

Is this the best you can do living in a first world country with all of it's opportunities?

If they had to go back to their country of origin, I would be inclined to say, THEY WOULDN'T MAKE IT, because in America, you can be a complete idiot and out of control...and you are still guaranted civil rights.
The police will not kick your door down in the middle of the night (of course without probable cause) and shoot you in the head on the spot because you are deemed a nuisance to society.

You can stand in front of the white house all day long and call George W. Bush every filthy name in the book and you will not get arrested. Try that same scenario in front of a Parliament building somewhere else in the world. AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

I'm all for kickin' eligible ignorant fools out of the country, because sometimes that the only way to make some people understand what they have or had.

Let the hard working ones that want to get ahead, stay and go through the process, and let the hard-heads go back to the shanty towns and slums, and deal with that B.S. over there.

User avatar
Common Sense
Heavy Weight
Heavy Weight
Posts: 2631
Joined: January 13th, 2004, 3:54 pm
Location: In your MIND and in your HEART.

Re: It's time for some Common Sense

Unread post by Common Sense » February 13th, 2004, 12:54 pm

Noog wrote:Cummon Common Sense, think outside the box man, you got a good brain, a good heart, its obvious from your passionate writting BUT, in my view, you got a nationalistic blind spot - America aint that great...if your a fourteen year old Salvadorian dumped in Boyle Heights....what would you do?
LOL......Funny that you said that, because I wasn't nearly as nationalistic until I came back from Europe and the U.K......LOL.

I see your point and you raise a very good arguement. I guess what I was trying to convey was, that we are ultimately responsible for our actions. Unfortunately some of us may not be aware of this responsibility until it's too late, but I feel it's got to start from somewhere. America isn't that great for alot of people in alot of areas, but I can only assume (hate to use that word), being an El Salvadorian dumped in Boyle Heights still has it's advantages over being one dumped in a poverished crime ridden area in El Salvador.

As far as what would I do? I'm not sure, but if I knew there was a remote possibilty of me getting deported over my gang bangin', I would definetly try to do something.

Well after re- reading my previous post, I guess I was a little harsh. Maybe I'll do my postings before I hit the coffee shops.

What do you recommend?

Lisseth
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 10
Joined: February 7th, 2004, 1:42 pm

Re: It's time for some Common Sense

Unread post by Lisseth » February 14th, 2004, 10:50 am

Well in response to Noog's question. I am a first generation U.S. Citizen raised by a single mother in the Crenshaw District. Although I do feel that usually parents are the ones who should instill a sense for what is wrong and what is right, I do feel that we, as humans, have an inherent sense of responsibility and tend to be aware of the consequences of our actions before we carry them out. I'm not using myself as an example, because, thankfully, I was never in a position to make such a decision. However, there are countless amounts of youth (some which I've worked with) who have succeeded at avoiding a lifestyle that only proves stereotypes. I volunteered at a Salvadoran organization set in the heart of Pico-Union and worked with high-schoolers who knew the difference. When they have had Mara Salvatrucha and 18th Street breathing down their necks, they never caved. There are alternatives. You just have to look for them if you really want to.

ElGuero
Straw Weight
Straw Weight
Posts: 82
Joined: February 23rd, 2004, 5:35 pm

Re: It's time for some Common Sense

Unread post by ElGuero » February 25th, 2004, 1:55 pm

Iagree with Noog.....

The American dream ended in the 1960's, and it was for non-Hispanics, non-white peoples to begin with.....Sure, you get the Miami gusanos(Cuban-American Mafia).....but thats an exception.....

In my own experience......people in Nicaragua had a socialist government, FSLN was really popular and still is.....they did a lot of good.....So what happened? Reagan sends in the CIA, they build up the contras.......start a civil war and pay for it by selling crack to black people......

Then the US makes itself seem like a land of opportunity, at the US embassy they tell you to come that you'll work......that you won't have problems.....We had a nice life in Nicaragua, my dad was a doctor.....so we get to the US, his degree is not recognized because he studied in the Soviet Union.....and we're given the choice of being thrown into the American streets with nothing but his savings, or go back to a wartorn country......after a year we wanted to leave.....at least there we had our dignity......but after paying to get here and living costs and everything we really couldn't afford it......

So we lived in the barrio.....had to make things last, my mom got a job as a maid, my dad did odd jobs and went to school part time for 12 years and now is a radiologist.....a far cry from what he did before...but hey, its something......

They need people here for cheap labor.....face it, thats what Latinos are here.....the only ones who aren't are the right wing political refugees like the Miami mafia.....the Cubans who came right after the people took power in Cuba....the Cubans who came after are no better off than Mexicans or anyone else.....

The Central American gang problem is a direct product of American imperialism......the people who join gangs do so because in the environment they're in when they get here.....there just isn't a different alternative....alright, so there may be but the opportunities are rare.....

A lot of the people who got into MS here saw it as a way of surviving in the ghetto or barrio.....a lot of the kids from El Salvador were sent to the US by their families.....some were drafted at age 15 or 16 and had to kill civilians or be killed themselves......this creates trauma in adults let alone in kids......

I met people who weren't stupid....one veterano was studying to be a teacher, then was drafter, escaped to join the FMLN guerrillas....and when the civil war officialy ended he had nothing, so he turned to MS....

There is a real mix of Central American immigrants.......my girl, her dad went from being a university professor in Nicaragua to a 7 11 clerk....the whole system here is f-ucked up.....

I think that Common Sense says some good stuff......but a lot of it just is out of touch with reality......I don't think he really understands what life is like.....

Plus, remember.....people come to the US, or did so in the 80's coz it had really low admission standards for legal immigration than the rest of the "developed" world......most wanted Australia or SOuth Africa but they had higher standards......Canada had the second lowest after the US....

With illegal immigrants, the US was the closest developed country, and its propaganda machine......radio stations abroad, etc offers people promises it doesn't keep.....

The US is great if you have money.......thats it....

When gang members get deported to Central America......of course they can't make it......most can't read or write, or even speak Spanish well enough to make it in mainstream society......the tattoos, clothes, don't allow them to fit in...they find themselves in a society where you're whole world is based on connections and don't have any connections there....and they have no skills with which to get employment.....

But this is because the US created the situation which made them gang members in the first place......they simply do what America taught them to do......

Mmmmmmmm as for the comments that the police won't shoot you in the head or knock your door down without probable cause..... he he..... Thats not my experience! American police are paranoid, trigger happy punks....

Try staring a cop down and see what he does.....don't say anything, just mad dog him.....




In the US if you stand infront of the white house these days you'll get arrested coz they put barricades up and if you stand too long you'll be suspicious......in Latin America, people protest all the time in front of parliament buildings and no one cares.....its part of the culture...





You mean let those who wanna be cheap labor stay and throw the others who were shaped by America go back and live in the misery America created for them......

User avatar
Common Sense
Heavy Weight
Heavy Weight
Posts: 2631
Joined: January 13th, 2004, 3:54 pm
Location: In your MIND and in your HEART.

Re: It's time for some Common Sense

Unread post by Common Sense » February 25th, 2004, 3:48 pm

ElGuero wrote: I think that Common Sense says some good stuff......but a lot of it just is out of touch with reality......I don't think he really understands what life is like.....
Your father from you wote sounds exactly like a man who has made his time in America work for him. Many people from around the world think opportunities in America is growing from trees. Opportunity is here, if you recognize it, and work for it.

I have a lot of respect for what your Parents. Your father did what many people who was born with U.S. citizenship could not do or would not do. It's not easy trying to keep a family together with no money, and promises. You father decided he was going to put his pride aside and work odd jobs to keep the family afloat. He also knew that if he studied part-time he could really do something more for his family. So he studied for the medical lisensure exams, and passed. Your father knew then, life in America was soon to be different for you guys. So he trained for 5 years, earning meager wages working 80-100hrs a week, while your mother helped by working as a maid. Your father the now U.S. trained Radiologist average salary in the ~$250k range, is living a life he would not be living if he had stayed in Nicaragua. He definetly has the money to return to Central America, but why should he, he has worked hard for what he has. Your family as a whole is reaping the benefits because his sacrifices and hard work (plus your mothers support).

Your father is a REAL MAN. Not many people can do what he did (U.S. born or Foreign born). I would take a page from his book, because he knows what times it is. Not those fools on the CORNOR.

You have four kids?...I hope you are stepping up to the plate, because I believe your father would.



P.S. It's a blessing to have two parents who his willing to work hard in the name of the family. Not many people are that fortunate. Just ask around on this forum.

C.S.

Panik
Light Heavy Weight
Light Heavy Weight
Posts: 1322
Joined: January 19th, 2004, 10:31 am
Location: W/S Santa Ana

Re: It's time for some Common Sense

Unread post by Panik » February 25th, 2004, 4:09 pm

I have to ageree with common sense here. It seems like your father acomplished exactly what the american dream is. Nobody can expect to get an education in another country and just walk in to a new country and have it count. Our schools here have higher standards in the higher educations. I know I know a guy who is an Indian (from India). He was even born here, but went over there after high school to go to college. He spent 6 years going to medical school out there. When he came back here he wasn't even qualified to work in a pharmacy. They don't force you to go to school again, but they do have standardized tests for most fields of work here where if you can pass the test, you will become accredited in this country and then your degrees and whatever else is then recognized. If you cannot pass, then you need to go back to school. This is only because the schools in other countries don't necessarily teach you everything you need to know in this country. But, like Common said, he's now a radiologist, so it seems to me that everything worked out the way it was supposed to.

ElGuero
Straw Weight
Straw Weight
Posts: 82
Joined: February 23rd, 2004, 5:35 pm

Re: It's time for some Common Sense

Unread post by ElGuero » February 25th, 2004, 4:31 pm

He hates it here, he was lured under false pretenses and lost the years of his career when he would have been the most productive......after he did get licensed for a much lower position, took him 5 years to find a job coz of his age.......now he's waiting 2 more years to get some savings, so he can go and do what he wishes he would have done in the first place....go to Nicaragua and be a Sandinista activist....

Anyways, the odd jobs weren't steady and it was my mom working as a maid that paid most of the bills......

Don't romanticize it, it wasn't that he believed in America or had any dream.....he just felt he couldn't do anything else....

A radiologist starts at like $20 an hour, far from $250k a year...... as a doctor in Nicaragua the standard of living is better....was better.....standard of living doesn't correlate to how many dollars you have...




We were able to not be homeless coz for 10 years I was one of those "fools on the corner"......

People don't fall into the gang life for being lazy, or for being stupid, or for any of their own shortcomings....theres a lot of bright people there....people become victims of the cycle of poverty.....some really don't have any alternatives.......

Its easy to say kids can join programs or whatever, but when those don't exist they can't......there is no way to make it through the ghetto or barrio alone.......you need some kind of group to fit in to so they can have your back....



3 kids......never met two of them....the third is with the mother's relatives in Honduras.....with one the family refuses to let me have contact and the third I'm trying to find.....





Thats exactly what happens in most of the world, and in the US if you're from one of the "right" countries....



Foreign schools are better or just as good.....if American schools were so great then others wouldn't be surpassing the US in education every step of the road....



It didn't.....thats like saying you're the chief detective but then become a patrol cop and say that its the same thing......


Taking away the prime of someone's life isn't giving them anything....if white society believes that its all a struggle, and that everyone has to suffer etc.....then they should shut when they get car jacked or when a cop gets killed by a gang member, or whatever coz its all just a part of the struggle, right???

Look, this country is the only developed nation where you have third world conditions....where you have guerrilla warfare, which is what gang violence pretty much is, under the shadows of hundred million dollar shiny glass and steel skyscrapers.......

For one person to make it is not a dream, its an anomaly.....making money is not the way out of poverty.....education alone isn't.....the way is to struggle against the system and those who support it.....its the system which is responsible for the conditions which allow for the cycle to continue......

and if what I lived through is the American dream, I'd sure as hell hate to see the American nightmare.....

Panik
Light Heavy Weight
Light Heavy Weight
Posts: 1322
Joined: January 19th, 2004, 10:31 am
Location: W/S Santa Ana

Re: It's time for some Common Sense

Unread post by Panik » February 25th, 2004, 4:42 pm

Actually, the schools over here are much better. I'm talking higher education. Universities. Our public shools are not up to par with a lot of other countries, but I'm talking degrees. If you get a degree in the U.S. it is worth more than a degree in most other countries except for maybe a couple in Europe. As for any south or central american university, they are not on the same level. And as for my family, I'm white. But, my mom's side of the family came over from europe not speaking a lick of english. My great grandfather was educated in europe, but speaking no english, the only work he could get was in the coal mines in PA. He worked his ass off to make sure his children got educations, and he made sure that they were allowed only to speak english so they wouldn't grow up with an accent that might hurt them in whatever field they might choose to follow. He died young from all of the coal dust (they called it black lung), but his family went on to all be at least halfway succesful, and they all did better than any of their family that might have remained where they were at. Sometimes you have to sacrifice to give your children a chance. And you keep talking about your father, but would you have rather grown up in Nicaragua? That's crazy. No matter how f'd up a neighborhood you lived in here, Believe me, your better off here. You think our cops are bad? you don't klnow the half. Yeah, maybe here you can catch the occasional beat down from the police, but down there you just dissapear, your family too. you just cease to exist. The fact is that the homeless people on the streets of LA are better off than a lot of working class people in 3rd world countries, and they have more rights.

ElGuero
Straw Weight
Straw Weight
Posts: 82
Joined: February 23rd, 2004, 5:35 pm

Re: It's time for some Common Sense

Unread post by ElGuero » February 25th, 2004, 5:10 pm

Panik wrote:Actually, the schools over here are much better. I'm talking higher education. Universities. Our public shools are not up to par with a lot of other countries, but I'm talking degrees. If you get a degree in the U.S. it is worth more than a degree in most other countries except for maybe a couple in Europe. As for any south or central american university, they are not on the same level. And as for my family, I'm white. But, my mom's side of the family came over from europe not speaking a lick of english. My great grandfather was educated in europe, but speaking no english, the only work he could get was in the coal mines in PA. He worked his ass off to make sure his children got educations, and he made sure that they were allowed only to speak english so they wouldn't grow up with an accent that might hurt them in whatever field they might choose to follow. He died young from all of the coal dust (they called it black lung), but his family went on to all be at least halfway succesful, and they all did better than any of their family that might have remained where they were at. Sometimes you have to sacrifice to give your children a chance. And you keep talking about your father, but would you have rather grown up in Nicaragua? That's crazy. No matter how f'd up a neighborhood you lived in here, Believe me, your better off here. You think our cops are bad? you don't klnow the half. Yeah, maybe here you can catch the occasional beat down from the police, but down there you just dissapear, your family too. you just cease to exist. The fact is that the homeless people on the streets of LA are better off than a lot of working class people in 3rd world countries, and they have more rights.
Latin American universities are on par with any American or European university......University of the Andes, UNAM, Pedro Henriques, University of Havana, these are world class institutions......and besides, my dad did study in Europe.....

My 8 years in Nicaragua were the happiest of my life, I would have loved to stay there.......in those days Managua was safe from the US imposed war.....

How many 3rd world countries have you been to??? We left a war country and moved into a real warzone.......live a little, see the world, then say whats better or worse.......

I've had plenty of experience with American cops......never met a good one, never met one who wasn't waiting to pull that trigger....just waiting for the chance.......I've had homies get shot in the back by pigs......and have it called "self defense".....and I've had my own run ins..... I really don't need a lecture on the police.......

What rights do you have in America??? To not be a man of color out after dark, to live in poverty, and to have a cop kill you in "self defence".......to be cheap labor, and a second class citizen if you're not white.....or if you have an accent.....

Working class people in the third world have homes, food, a settled community.......you can't compare it to being homeless in LA.....

I'm not here to argue but to share ideas........if you want to be a "patriot" fine.....but don't expect everyone else to be one......and learn a little about the topic before you speak....

Post Reply

Return to “Prevention, Intervention, Education and Awareness”